Games agents play? - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by ds on July 04, 2008 at 14:32:24:

LOL.
I had one agent, who hardly ever let me talk while discussing the property i was about to buy. Lied to me the house was a 4bd 2BA, in fact it was legaly 2 bedrooms plus one illigal and one play room. For the price of 620K.
Luckilly I asked for proof of sq.ft. and legal papers about the size … after wasting me 20 plus days I got my deposit back.
All sort of strange fish named RE Agent is out there.

Games agents play? - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on July 02, 2008 at 15:08:25:

Just wondering if any agents out there can shed some light on agent
behavior. The standard line from REO agents here when I make an offer is
that they already have a higher offer AND have multiple offers. If that’s true,
fine. I find it hard to believe because I follow these properties for quite
awhile and many don’t sell…and get relisted with price reductions.

However, I’m wondering: can they negotiate on behalf of the seller in that
manner? I understand that it’s probably not in their listing agreement, but is
it accepted practice to blow off buyers, not present offers and/or play
negotiating games?

I’m asking this in all sincerity. Is this how it’s done? I get different responses
when I use a buying agent. So, it’s got me wondering…Kristine

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Samantha

Posted by Samantha on July 07, 2008 at 20:17:02:

Hi Kristine,
I am a former RE Agent, and have been a fan of this board for years. I had a great investor client, and we had fun low balling offers and buying houses.

You are better off using a buyer’s agent to rep YOU. When you make the offer direct to the seller’s agent, that agent is of course going to protect their client…the seller. So getting your offer accepted is more difficult—dangling carrot of a commission or not.

You probably know this already, so maybe I misunderstood your original post?

I have submitted offers for buyers to banks, thru the agents, and waited weeks to find out whether our offer was accepted or not (we moved on to homes we could buy, not wait on). Some of the banks are the screwy ones, who “wait” for the best offer. But, to their credit some of the banks mean business, and will work with the first offer or the best offer over the first weekend of a listing period, if they get that lucky.

I know one agent, who reps Countrywide and Wells Fargo properties. He often will take the first offer to one of his clients, and get his client to write a slightly better offer. Thereby he double ends the deal, and the first offer gets the dupe! There are some shady characters out there. So, you could be feeling the effects of any and all of that, y’know?
S

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Philip

Posted by Philip on July 05, 2008 at 06:06:45:

What about going straight to the bank if you know it?
They accept many offers, no?

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by tampasteph

Posted by tampasteph on July 04, 2008 at 08:16:25:

Hi Kristine,

Have you tried calling the agent first to let them know you are planning on making an offer?

I find that it helps sometimes to call and try to build a little bit of rapport w them. Not sure what it’s like where you are, but in my market there is a ton of competition w REOs, and the agents are getting bombarded w low-ball offers, and lots and lots of people (wholesalers) are backing out of contracts.

I try to set myself apart from the rest and at least make a phone call to let the agent know I’m not out to waste time.

Just a thought,

Happy 4th!

Steph

500 Offers = 1 Presentation - Posted by DP

Posted by DP on July 03, 2008 at 21:48:29:

The only thing I find surprising is that you find that behavior surprising!

What you describe is standard operating procedure for agents everywhere. As my subject mentions, over a period of about 3 years I made ~500 offers through agents. In all that time only 1 was ever presented.

Why did I keep going you ask? Well part of it was stubbornness, I was sure that I would eventually find a way to get agents to present my offers. Later it became a kind of experiment. And finally I ended up using it as an excuse to go behind the agents back with the seller. I figured that they decided that they didn’t want a commission if I bought the house, so after that I wouldn’t bother to call them when I was interested in one of their listings.

Making your offers directly to the seller is great! Sometimes they say yes. Sometimes they apologize for not being able to accept your offer. They rarely waste your time and they’re almost never rude. In otherwords, the exact opposite of realtors.

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Maurice

Posted by Maurice on July 03, 2008 at 13:05:51:

I had an agent complain to me that the other agents were laughing at her for wasting so much time with me and no commission checks.

This was after I gave her offers on four (4) apartment houses, 2 of them full price offers. This was a girl that never sold anything bigger than a bungalow in her life.

Here is how she negotiates an offer: she phoned up a seller, got him on his CELL PHONE while driving down the hiway, and told him what the offer was. He said “naw” and she said “oh, ok” and gave up.

That is how she presents a full price offer on a 12 unit apartment house.

I wonder why she doesn’t get many commmission checks?

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Gene

Posted by Gene on July 02, 2008 at 21:15:56:

Hey Kristine,

I have been having a hard time working with one of the main REO agents our farming area.

I am low balling but, like you are talking about, these are properties that are sitting for months…and not selling. But she will not give me any response. Its pretty frustrating.

I think using a buyer agent might be the best way to handle it.

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Dean in NC

Posted by Dean in NC on July 02, 2008 at 21:03:13:

I’m not so sure it’s the agents but the banks that know nothing about realestate and don’t always listen to their agent. I’ve purchased a few reo’s and have 2 under contract now. They’ve all done just as you’ve said…told us they had multiple offers then asked for our best offers. One that I’m closing on Monday I origionaly made a reasonable offer, and went up a little -they only came down $500 and I walked away. A month later I have the house under contract for less than my higher offer they rejected. Go figure. Still getting for 1/2 of tax value

Dean

give selling agent one … - Posted by steve

Posted by steve on July 02, 2008 at 19:32:35:

chance to submit offer, then call your buyers agent and make the same offer or for $1 (one) dollar more and let the selling agent lose 3%. These kinds of selling agents deserve to lose the whole commission.

Here in Florida, many listing agents for REO’s are not local, and usually price according to where they are located which is usually a completely different market. A good example, we had a listing agent from Miami saying he/she knew the whole state market yet the listing price for a small city on the west coast of Florida (way different from Miami or most south east florida markets) was as high as any Miami or Ft. Lauderdale property. This listing agent wouldn’t even believe us when we sent over comparable REO sales from our area.

We have found that the REO’s listed by most out of town agents are very over priced and sit on the market for at least 6 months to a year, and it seems unbelieve that the lender’s REO people don’t see this and insist the prices be lowered.

I recommend making offers thru buyer’s agent and low ball the h$ll out of them.

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Chad (MD)

Posted by Chad (MD) on July 02, 2008 at 17:45:01:

Hi Kristine,

I started out making offers on REOs. Usually the list prices were the ARV – not taking into account the cost of repairs. Or if the ARV was 250 they might list at 240 – for a 60k rehab! I was told by one agent that the bank preferred to keep these properties on the books. I couldn’t follow his reason why.

Another agent told me his company got most of the listings because they listed them at the highest prices. I guess the bank didn’t care that no one actually wanted them at those prices.

I switched to direct marketing. I know from reading your posts that you find your leads all different ways. Lately I’ve been taking a look at REOs again. I hope the listing agents are a little more reasonable this time.

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Maurice

Posted by Maurice on July 02, 2008 at 17:24:32:

A lot of agents are plain nuts. I know one who drives his car out in the country, and waits for God to talk to him. God comes down on a pink cloud and tells him what to do. I swear I am not making this up.

His latest brain wave was that God wanted him to build a church. Of all the idiotic notions. There are a hundred churches around the country sitting half empty every Sunday. What does God want with another one? If he told him to get some asses on those pews it would make sense.

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Investor help - Utah

Posted by Investor help - Utah on July 02, 2008 at 16:47:10:

I have some friends who are agents and I’ve done some investing myself and have worked with several agents.

You mentioned - “I find it hard to believe because I follow these properties for quite awhile and many don’t sell…and get relisted with price reductions.” This doesn’t surprise me too much.

You’d be surprised how many people would like to buy a property and then it ends up that they can’t qualify for a mortgage. Then the seller who goes through this process - say 3 or 4 times - gets frustrated and eventually lowers the price putting it back on the market with the agent that once upon a time told you there were many higher offers.

By the time the property is re-listed and at a lower price, this is where you’re finding the seller is more flexible and likely more motivated. Now it’s time to get them eating out of the palm of your hand as you oh so politely make your offer again and finally get the deal you want. Persistence my friend. Pleasant persistence. This lady here (me) knows a bit about that when working with agents - especially when these agents are men. I’m firm and persistent yet polite.

Your next question: “I’m wondering: can they negotiate on behalf of the seller in that manner? I understand that it’s probably not in their listing agreement, but is it accepted practice to blow off buyers, not present offers and/or play negotiating games?”

It is my understanding that legally they must present the seller ALL offers - no matter how ridiculous - even if your offer is $1000 bucks and a broken down 1975 VW bug. Now actually getting the agent to prove that they gave your offer to the seller may be another story. But again…time passes and the seller sees that there are no real buyers (possibly due to an inability to qualify) and then they loosen up on price and/or terms (ideally both).

And yes, you’ll get different responses from buyers agents simply because they want your business or are simply lacking in experience. It takes time to find a good buyers and/or sellers agent but once you’ve found him or her - do what’s necessary to keep them (but without selling your soul).

Hope that helps.

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by James - Michigan

Posted by James - Michigan on July 02, 2008 at 15:29:22:

Just tell the agent you want a hard copy of any corespondence from the bank in writting - ie,
acceptance, denial, counters etc.

This will make them happy.

James

get a new … - Posted by steve

Posted by steve on July 03, 2008 at 17:42:23:

agent!!!

Well, if you went into one of the - Posted by Rich-CA

Posted by Rich-CA on July 03, 2008 at 10:09:55:

half empty ones you would know why others are needed. Its like the old typing pool concept. These are gond now. Or Woolworth/WoolCo, which went from being one of the largest retailers to out of business on the basis of not changing with the market. Sitting in one of these half (or more) empty churches one time will explain why they (and not others) are going out of business slowly.

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on July 02, 2008 at 17:05:53:

Thanks for your reply. To clarify regarding using a buyer’s agent:

When I use a buyer’s agent, the offer gets through. The same offer
that is rejected by the listing agent who stated that there is already an
accepted offer, better offers and/or many offers.

In this market, I thought it would be better to work with seller’s agents
directly. Obviously they don’t need the other 3% that much if that’s
how they deal with buyers directly. Kristine

Re: get a new … - Posted by Maurice

Posted by Maurice on July 03, 2008 at 18:48:55:

I did. Unfortunately, he turned out to be nuts.

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Investor help - Utah

Posted by Investor help - Utah on July 02, 2008 at 18:34:37:

Typing too fast makes me sometimes leave out info - you know - like full e-mail addresses.

blueskygreenpink2000@gmail.com

Let me know how things are coming along. (In response to the previous post - clarification you put regarding agent)

Re: Games agents play? - Posted by Investor help - Utah

Posted by Investor help - Utah on July 02, 2008 at 17:51:23:

Been there. Done that. Decided against wearing the t-shirt that tells the story.

“Obviously they don’t need the other 3% that much if that’s how they deal with buyers directly.”

Amen - And yes, working with seller’s agents is what I’ve done more often than not.

By the way - you have a great name, Kristine.