2nd Heir's not cooperating... Help! - Posted by Tim_wa

Posted by Joe Kaiser on March 29, 2006 at 21:35:21:

Joke, Rick . . . and good post.

2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by Tim_wa

Posted by Tim_wa on March 28, 2006 at 02:25:40:

I want to buy a property where the owner passed away. She left a will with 2 heirs. The 2nd one is stubborn and is not very cooperative. House has very little equity but he may think that it has a lot and may call up realtors, which could ruin the deal. There are 2 liens on the property and the 2nd (medical lien from DSHS) is willing to negotiate. This would make the deal work.

House is currently in the probate process and the attorney that myself and the 1st heir hired is going through the process of getting this heir non-intervention power so that she may sell this property. Of course the 2nd heir is aware of this and may stir up a big mess…

What can I do to secure this deal?

Please help!


You’re done . . . email me (nt) - Posted by Joe Kaiser

Posted by Joe Kaiser on March 28, 2006 at 22:21:52:


Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by The Frisco Kid

Posted by The Frisco Kid on March 28, 2006 at 12:03:11:


If you want helpful advice then give us the facts, if you don’t know the facts then find them out and pass them on to us.

What is the current market value of the property as is? How much are the liens and what is the likely discount you will get? What are your plans for the property, to keep or sell? Why not just ask us how many beans are in the jar in your kitchen without any other info.

You recieved some good posts, if little equity why chase it? If the lien can be discounted a sizeable amount why not buy it? What does the heir that doesn’t want to deal think there is in it for him after liens, holding costs, and selling costs are paid? Is he thinking thousands and reality is only hundreds, time to find out and give him the facts, at least you will know what your really dealing with.

Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on March 28, 2006 at 10:49:20:

Would the one heir you are working with consider selling you their
interest? I’ve bought interests from PRs (who were also heirs) and left
them in place to finish the probate, with me paying all costs. This
would make you partners with the other heirs after the probate is
finished. Some fun, huh?

What does the attorney say about securing your interest? If you hired
him, he’s working for you too. Did you get a dual representation
agreement? It’s tricky hiring a probate attorney. Just because you pay
the bills does not necessarily make you the client.

If the other heir only has an interest, it’s not that easy for them to stir
up a mess. They have to be pretty motivated to show up in court and
try to void the current PR’s actions, etc.

Have you asked this other heir what they want? How much cash would
satisfy him? Have you talked to him? Or is all the info getting passed
on from the heir you are working with?


Heirs Not Important Yet - Posted by Jimmy

Posted by Jimmy on March 28, 2006 at 10:14:54:

The heir has his or her interests in mind, and not yours. Surprised?

The Personal Representative is the person with whom you need to be dealing. All the heir has at this point is an expectancy. With this said, the heir may have some influence over the decision-making of the PR (in fact, if you check, the heir may BE the PR).

and understand this: YOUR interests don’t count here. The PR has an obligation to the estate. The PR may want to sell the property. or may have good reason to keep the property and distribute it to heirs. You have nothing to say about this decision.

and if the PR decides to sell, the pR has an obligation to fetch the best possible price. and hiring an experienced broker is one way of satisfying the probate court that the PR upheld this responsibility.

Bottom Line: There a number of things that need to happen before you get a valid contract, and you control almost none of them. Keep an eye on the deal, and be ready to pounce if and when it is available. But do not invest a lot of time and energy at this point.

Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by dutch

Posted by dutch on March 28, 2006 at 07:54:00:

Very little equity? Why are you working so hard on this deal?


Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by John Corey

Posted by John Corey on March 28, 2006 at 07:03:12:

Something to consider after you get all the facts.

Consider buying the medical lien. If you do not get the house because it gets sold by a Realtor you will get paid off at face value.

This is not a great idea in all cases so do your homework.

John Corey

Oh, and don’t mention this one to Rick H. (nt :wink: - Posted by Joe Kaiser

Posted by Joe Kaiser on March 29, 2006 at 05:03:02:


Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by Tim_wa

Posted by Tim_wa on March 28, 2006 at 14:31:52:

Here is the info:

AS-IS value: 240k
1st mortgage: 155k (including all arrears)
2nd lien: DSHS lien of 75k (may accept around 20k to release)

I want to keep this house for a year then sell. I don’t think I could buy a DSHS lien as a few people her have informed me.

Let me know what you think…


Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by Tim_wa

Posted by Tim_wa on March 28, 2006 at 11:02:46:

I’ve gotten the dual representation. I definitely can buy the Heir’s interest. Property is going through probate so the PR position hasn’t yet been appointed by the court. We’re trying to make the heir I’m working with to be the PR right now.

May I ask what right do I have upon purchasing the heir’s interest? Property is also in foreclosure and I’m not sure what legal ways I could use to postpone the sale.

Kristine, you seemed to know so much about this probate thing. Can I contact you directly for some consultation? I wouldn’t mind paying you for your time of course. The situation is a little bit complicated and it’s hard to explain everything without direct consultations.


Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on March 28, 2006 at 20:35:28:

Tim: there is something out of the ordinary here when it comes to
DHS. If they have a recorded lien that is recent (the owner died within
the year, correct?). Why are they agreeing to a discount when they will
be paid if the property is sold?

Here in CA, the value of the estate per the probate referee is the max
that can be paid out to Medi-CAL. So, if probate ref/appraiser finds
the value to be $240K, then the debts are paid to those making a
claim–in order of recorded liens in this case. DHS has to use
something to determine value of the assets of the estate and the ability
of the estate to pay, not just the word of the estate. How did they
determine value?

Are you sure you are working with someone who can actually settle the
debt for $20K? Kristine

Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on March 28, 2006 at 11:33:53:

Wish I did know so much about this probate thing! Every deal is
different and it seems like I have to start over with every deal–nothing
repeats itself. My probate deals have my hardest, by far, emotionally.
But they have also been incredibly profitable.

Let’s say you buy the heir’s interest, today, via an assignment and pay
her now. You then step into her shoes. She’s out of the deal because
you’ve bought her inheritance. The one thing to figure out is how to
deal with the PR issue. You can either leave her in place as the the PR
(which I’ve done–and won’t do again!) or as part of your agreement
you would then become the PR. You can ask the attorney about this.
Problem for me with probate attorneys that I’ve worked with is that
they are often very, very fuzzy on contract law. They are good
(hopefully) with required court docs, notices and publications
requirements, not contracts. So you may want to use an RE attorney to
work out the assignment agreement The main thing, of course, is to
build a good relationship with everyone, make everyone secure that
they will be paid, etc.

If you get such an assignment then you go ahead and act as the heir/
PR. And the court gives you the special powers.

Every probate deal is complicated! I say stop saying that and
uncomplicate it. If you identify this deal as complicated I assure it will
stay that way. Ask me how I know.

Feel free to write to me anytime. Kristine

Re: 2nd Heir’s not cooperating… Help! - Posted by Tim_wa

Posted by Tim_wa on March 28, 2006 at 21:00:37:

I contacted the rep for this case directly. I went to the court house and got the details from the recorded doc and made the call. I provided her my so called short sale package and she agreed to the discount after consulting with her supervisor. I even got a commitment letter from her. This has been a very very long process but it’s set and done. I would love to purchase the lien but not sure if they would agree and also not sure what pitfall I might run into even if they agree to sell it to me…


A better way… - Posted by Rick Harmon (CA)

Posted by Rick Harmon (CA) on March 29, 2006 at 21:20:08:

Why not have the P/R with pending action nominate you as Administrator or Special Administrator so that you can advocate for protecting the estate asset (prevent the foreclosure, etc.) and ultimately protect your position.

Also, you just might get court permission to record a junior trust deed in favor of yourself for money that you advance to open probate and protect the property.

If you do buy the lien via sssignment (something that is not an option in my state - CA) then I’d keep that matter separate and put your demand into escrow when you go to resell the property.

One strategy that I use, by the way, is to leave the property in foreclosure until the last moment in order to justify selling the property to me or my friendly buyer for a significant discount. Attorney can sometimes walk this thru ex-parte on an emergency basis (a good reason to stop and catch your breath before rushing in and acting blindly).

Thanks for the call today, Kristine. Glad that I’m keeping Kaiser looking over his shoulder. Also, I would have sent this poster to Joe, anyway, 'cause this is a WA state deal (so why the concern, Joe?).

Re: A better way… - Posted by Tim_wa

Posted by Tim_wa on March 30, 2006 at 12:44:44:

The PR position hasn’t yet been appointed by the court. The hearing is this April 10th. However the auction date is April 7th. I’m trying to get the auction stopped but lets say I can’t, is there a way to have an emergency hearing to appoint me this Special Administrator position prior to the 7th?

Thank you so much for your help.