A Lazy Summer Spent Observing - Posted by JeffB (MI)

Posted by Bernd Hanak on August 31, 2011 at 20:00:31:

Jeff, great post and observations. But first I want to compliment you on travelling with your family. I credit my most valued education to travel and to reading. If our activities were common to that of the masses, we would be a member of that group. Shawn?s evaluation of the poor is of course correct. But in the genesis of a feudal system, a large number of the population are required to be poor. Their number will progressively increase by the influx of ex-middle class members. In an unqualified democracy, mob-rule will determine everybody?s medium term future. Frustration and envy will eventually prompt the voting mob to scream for ?one who will do something to get rid of the imagined enemy?. Whether it is the government, the mass media, influential special interest groups, their aid to the poor is to guide them to more poverty, to greater dependence, not independence and proven middle-class values. Of course, there is always the chance that we will hit the proverbial brick wall with such force that our system has to go through a self-cleansing process which promises to avoid the mistakes of the past.
I especially like your concluding paragraph, probably because it describes my approach to my real estate investments. In the meantime, I am comfortable with my wait- and- see attitude.

A Lazy Summer Spent Observing - Posted by JeffB (MI)

Posted by JeffB (MI) on August 29, 2011 at 20:36:18:

As I have written here a few times before, the LD business model is becoming more difficult in my market, and my plan has been to buy a couple free-and-clear rental homes (SFH) in good areas, with the proceeds from my LD note income. This spring I bought two homes and have been enjoying, thus far, headache free tenancies with early payments all around.

Having and RV and two young children, we spend most of the summer traveling and I do very little work other than answer the odd phone call on “what’s your account number again?” or excuses “my dog at my house payment”. No, I’m not kidding.

Since there have been very few good deals pop up on SFH homes I’ve been pretty lazy all summer. We have traveled over 5,000 miles this year already with the RV. During our travels I have come to notice a few things, which I will try to summarize here for your consideration and input as I seek to answer the question, “what now?”

  1. Suburban vs. Rural living, a tale of two realities. I have noticed that, independent of what state you are in, the pain being felt in rural areas is FAR greater than that of the metro areas. The further you go from a metro area, the worse it gets. Closed businesses, gas stations, restaurants, and vacant homes overgrown by weeds are commonplace. The upper peninsula of Michigan, for all it’s majesty and beauty, looks much like the images shown in the show “Life After People”, which I used to watch when I had cable. The metro areas, on the other hand, are often (but not always) booming, with chain restaurants aplenty jam-packed on a Friday night. New Wal-marts, Lowes, etc continue to pop up on every corner and no consumer need goes unfilled, from designer mattress stores to nail boutiques ad nauseum. In these areas, several of which I have been through, seem oblivious to the pain of their neighbors just 30 minutes away in some cases.

  2. The poor get poorer. As a continuation of point number one above, many cities (particularly in the rust-belt) seem to be dying a quick death as well. I have witnessed the struggle of most of my payors over the last couple years, all who are paying by most standards what we would classify as “affordable housing”. So perhaps there is demand for affordable housing in one sense, but the people who demand it are, most often, unable to pay for it. This in itself is an irony, because if affordable housing is not affordable, who’s going to live there? As an aside, with so many of my payors collecting unemployment for what seems like a dozen years now, I continue to question the wisdom of our current leaders who enable these masses to survive while doing nothing of value.

  3. Some people are mad at the government. Some fear the government. The rest despise the government. This one took a little more thought as it was not readily apparent to me until I sat down and really thought about my experiences this summer, collectively, as I talked to people in different cities and states.

a.The poor are upset with the government because the economy has not improved (for them) and the government should have fixed it by now, right? Hope and change?

b. The middle class are ticked off too, because they too pay higher gas prices, more for milk, and $14.99 for those chicken fingers at T.G.I. Friday’s. Not that those prices deter them from consuming the same. Further, many of these dual income households are in tax brackets where they are phased out of nearly every tax credit offered to the working middle class. Because we’ve got to pay for all those shovel-ready jobs!

c. The wealthy seem unhappy as well, knowing full well the inevitable result of this administration’s desire to make them pay their “fair share” and relieve the nation, at last, of it’s crushing debt load.

One may infer from the above my political leanings, but that is not the point of this post. I’m disgusted with almost every single elected official. They are all crooks and liars. Some better than others, but all scoundrels to be sure. Worse yet, the more I think about politics the angrier I get, and doing so accomplishes NOTHING towards my goal of financial freedom and providing for my family’s security.

So with all that, I ask:

  1. Does anybody share the same observations (especially for numbers 1 and 2 above)?

  2. If so, is there an opportunity present that can be captured, or alternatively, are there risks which should be avoided?

For me, it is leading me to acquire rentals in these suburban metro areas, near wal-mart, with good access to freeways and plentiful jobs. These homes cost more, but they should rent faster (and for more $$), and attract a better class of tenant. The numbers still need to work, though. But if the home prices tank as some people are predicting they will, I’m not too concerned, because they are debt-free and as such, will always provide cash flow, even if I have to undercut the rental market by 20% to attract the best tenants.

Re: A Lazy Summer Spent Observing - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on September 02, 2011 at 08:04:54:

Great post Jeff,

My summer has been just the opposite. I have been more busy now than I have been in years and rarely have true “down time.” My time has been divided between family commitments and working on properties. Taking time to just think has been at best a stolen moment.

You raise a number of great questions and I can only postulate on many of them and comment on the few that I have confronted directly.

For me rural living has made life less costly in many regards but as you have mentioned, doing business in this area or in a declining small city can be difficult.

For depressed areas you may find the steal of a lifetime, provided you are willing to hold the property for a long time. Longer exit strategies are hard pills to swollow these days. No debt on such an investment would likely be the only way I would consider such a speculative investment. I do expect many to become quite wealthy in such endeavors but this is not the strategy for all of us.

Like the old bank robber said when asked why he robbed banks, “because that’s where the money is.” I believe your approach to buying properties near jobs and sound businesses such as Wal-Mart is wise. That’s where the money is. All of us need to decide where the money is and seek to find opportunities there. Yes it may cost more but if a deal can be had that cash flows and has several exit strategies then you are back in business.

I believe now is a time when many of the mobile home investors will acquire other asset classes to add to their portfolios. Many will do so for the same reasons that got them interested in mobile homes to begin with. As prices decline in houses and lending remains scarce the traditional mobile home models can readily be applied to some stick built investments. This may not occur in every area but there will be pocket niches to consider.

I believe it is wise to invest in different market niches now. This may be the opportunity many have waited for to make the transition to traditionally more expensive investments.

Having a portfolio of mobile home, stick built and perhaps mobile home parks may provide an investor with the luxury of good cash flow now coupled with appreciation on the more traditional real estate when the market rebounds. By buying those properties right in a depressed economy you may be capturing a nest egg for the future, provided you have the cash flow to hold (and/or low to no debt) to hold them. Mixing the asset classes may be the solution necessary to make this happen.

Lastly I like your short pay down approach and this is what I have turned to as well. I grew up under very financially conservative parents and this method would fit their example quite well. It helps us all sleep at night, provided the quick paydown is supported by the income.

There are many ways to make money and in easy credit times the spread can be sufficient and the pay down of less concern during the acquisition phase but a quick paydown is more desireable during a depressed economy.

If one could pay down properties quickly in either economy they would, in my opinion, grow slow(er) but steady. Not a bad position to be in. I know several investor who stuck with this approach and they are the folks who are now sitting pretty and sleeping well. They may have fewer properties but each should be holding its own much better.

If we all were willing to sit down and decide exactly what we wanted from these investments I believe that we could accomplish those goals rather quickly and with far fewer properties. It is simply all too easy to lose sight of those goals and to get caught up doing deals. When the music stops we find there are too many chairs to run to and by the time we decide upon one to keep we may be too late.

Tony

Re: A Lazy Summer Spent Observing - Posted by Lin (NC)

Posted by Lin (NC) on September 01, 2011 at 09:53:03:

I also think you’re right on with the free and clear rental strategy. I’d be more aggressive about it, personally, so I’d be borrowing private money with really quick pay-off to accomplish it faster, and plan to be done buying in about 3 years, with payoffs in a total of 7. (Chris FL has outlined his strategy on the main board, and I think it’s excellent.)

I see high inflation, high interest rates, high fuel costs, and high unemployment for a long time out, so these factors are driving my strategy.

I am in the process of selling everything I acquired over the last 5 years. My apartments were sold earlier this year, despite being a cash-cow. I didn’t care for the geographic market anymore, and saw the neighborhood slipping in ways that made me nervous. I really felt it made more sense to take the profit and redirect it. I have sold out of my self storages, and my personal residence is on the market, too. I’m going to be renting instead of buying (unless I can find a fantastic deal), and I’m going to make sure I’m renting from someone who isn’t over-leveraged right now and doesn’t have an adjustable rate mortgage. I don’t want them losing the house I’m living in to foreclosure. (This info is available online in many areas through the Register of Deeds for your county.)

I’m moving to a more populated area with better prospects for jobs (not that I need one, but my tenants do!) with transportation/shipping playing a large role in its economy, and higher rents with lower costs to purchase.

I wish I saw a quick recovery, but I just can’t believe it. I think we’re seeing the landscape change for the long-term. I won’t count on bank financing with balloons or rate calls for my deals. If I buy commercial real estate it’ll be with owner financing and fixed rate loans from owners who want the cash-flow. I don’t want to have to count on being able to refinance anything I own, and likewise, I won’t count on a buyer’s ability to get financing later on for my exit, which is why I’m selling everything I don’t want to own for the next 10 years.

In the short-term I’m going to be doing some flips ? lots of wholesale and very selective retail flips. I’ll cherry pick my rentals from this pool. I’m really going to focus on finding a few private lenders who trust me and my plan, and I’m going to go hit the business hard while bank financing for end-buyers can still be had.

I have always been very cautious with my investments, if not my partners. ; ) Lesson learned!

Re: A Lazy Summer Spent Observing - Posted by Dr. B. (OH)

Posted by Dr. B. (OH) on August 30, 2011 at 20:54:30:

Jeff,
I do see exactly that. I am selling out for cash, any cash, for any repos I get back in my more rural parks. I tried an experiment in a rural park to fix homes up nicely and landlord friendly, expecting long, slow repayments, and or repos. Wrong, they wouldn’t tolerate the prices I needed to ask, no matter the low monthly, nor do they have $750 down. So I’m selling homes to the rare person with some cash even if I have to sell at a loss. Alternatively, I’m taking SOME free homes or buying homes for $150, then spending $0-$100 to fix something to make it look better to the park, then selling for $900-2400 cash, done.

Steve

Re: A Lazy Summer Spent Observing - Posted by Shawn Sisco

Posted by Shawn Sisco on August 30, 2011 at 14:30:26:

Are there more opportunities in cities than in the country? Yes, always has been so, always will be so. Interaction with others, ideas, innovations are far more valuable than resources.

As for the poor:
I really think that the root cause reasons for the national problems are the decisions that individuals make each day. Our people have ?spent money they didn?t have, to buy things they didn?t need, to impress people who didn?t care.? They didn?t learn how money works. All of these things were considered ?average? or ?normal?, but that makes no difference.
We get to choose our actions, but we don?t get to choose the consequences of our actions. I think that our poor economy is one of those consequences. When enough people did dumb things in their lives at approximately the same time, our society had a tipping point of consequences.
The only way for this to get better is for more people to make more good choices in their lives rather than more bad choices.

free & clear in 7 years - Posted by Steve-WA

Posted by Steve-WA on September 01, 2011 at 12:22:05:

Hmm - I spent about 15 mins looking and reading, and all I could see from Chris in FL was small local bank loaning 80%, all cashflow apparently going toward principal, ON 20-30K HOUSES!!! 20-30K houses is a pretty regional thing; 'course, as you describe, one ain’t a tree . . .

is that it, or am I missing something?