Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by GregVa

Posted by GregVa on March 06, 2001 at 11:47:40:

Marc
Thanks for the suggestions I’m in the process of contacting Ray. I already have his book and own a small park.The lot rents here average 150 to 175 even in the good parks. The problem here is everyone who own’s a small park seems to think they are worth a whole lot more than what they really are.There is also a guy here who is a perfect example of a slumlord who buys these older parks up and does absolutely nothing to improve them. He just keeps them as rentals. I don’t know what he is paying for them but I haven’t been able to get one at a reasonable price that we have both been looking at. I ran into him yesterday at this park,He is also looking to purchase it. We’ll see how it turns out.

Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by GregVa

Posted by GregVa on March 05, 2001 at 21:31:36:

I looked at a park today that has 30 lots.None of the mobiles are park owned.City water and sewer.Here are the numbers.
Asking $7200 perlot = $216k
lot rent $110 X 30= 3300/month (39,600/yr GOI)
water 1200/month 14400/year
dumpster 275/mon 3300/yr
taxes 1.10per/$1k est. 2376/yr
lights 45/mon 540/year
other expenses 6000/year

GOI=39,600-expenses of 26,626 NOI=12,984

At these numbers I figure a cap rate of 6% at 216K NOI/price= cap rate
I would like 12% but that comes out to 108,299
NOI/caprate=purchase price
If I meter the water for each unit that raises the NOI to 27,384 = 12984 + 14400Income for water
That figures out to a purchase price of 228,200 at 12% cap by just investing about 9K to meter the park.
The owner is willing to finance but Im’ not sure how much yet. He inherited the park free and clear so there is no lien on it.It is very run down,broken down cars and motors all around several units. Pitbulls tied up at most units. And about 12 units that are rented out by owners 10 by one individual.There is lots of upside here I think but I haven’t checked the Zoning yet. I do know this is a grandfathered in park.Also there are paved roads with a few potholes.
Can anyone offer any suggestion or advice on this? Does this look like it has any potential to be a deal?
Do my calculations look correct on the cap rates?

Re: Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by Brian

Posted by Brian on March 06, 2001 at 20:15:25:

You dont have to meter each mh,just divide it and charge them…also water sounds high I own two parks with 30 between both and water runs about 600 a month(higher if there are any leaks…)I charge my pad renters $20 a month for water and $5 a month for trash

Re: Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by Brian

Posted by Brian on March 06, 2001 at 20:02:32:

You dont have to meter each mh,just divide it and charge them…also water sounds high I own two parks with 30 between both and water runs about 600 a month(higher if there are any leaks…)I charge my pad renters $20 a month for water and $5 a month for trash

Yes… don’t. - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on March 06, 2001 at 19:04:33:

Greg,

Glad to hear you’re out shaking the bushes. As you know, there are lots of properties for sale, but true deals are hard to find. I’m afraid that is the case here. This deal is a potential turnaround candidate, but the asking price is so high as to make it a waste of time to even determine the potential.

As chill pointed out below, the deal as presented has negative cash flow if an 80% 20 yr loan is factored into the mix, but that is almost irrelevant, because the price is ridiculous. On a deal like this I would start with a 15% cap rate, just tell if there was potential for turnaround. On the numbers you gave, that means the sales price would have to start around $86,560, BEFORE deductions for deferred maintenance.

In most cases I would do some due diligence before approaching the seller for price reductions. But this one is so far out of line that any time spent is a waste unless the guy is willing to get real.

By the way, you have to start with true operating numbers. No property ever grosses exactly 100% of potential revenue. I may make more, it is usually less, but there will be a deviation. Delinquencies, collection expense, vacancy, etc. can and do happen on a regular basis. It looks as though he has given you the actual expenses (by the way, they are way high, and I would want a breakdown of what is in the $6T “other” category IF I were going to work the deal, which I would not right now. Could be found money, as in owner’s salary, etc.)

You need to know just how real this seller is. Ask him what he would take all cash, IF you could pay it. I would be floored if he came down as far as it would take for me to do the deal. What’s his motivation for selling?

If he says he was just joking, or the price is a typo, (I’ve seen it happen) and cuts the price 55-60%, then you might have something to work with. If so, then it is absolutely essential that your first step is to talk to the local planning department. You will not know the true facts about this property until you do. There are different degrees of grandfathering in zoning. In the worst case, the park could be grandfathered, but only for the present occupants. As homes are moved out, the ordinance could prohibit their replacement. Best case would be if the park could be brought into compliance with the zoning ordinance. That way you have a stronger sale when you’re ready to exit the property. But first you have to know what you’re dealing with. Also ask questions about the park’s history… someone in the department may know a lot that you need to know. I’d do this before making another move.

Sorry to shoot holes, but this is a non-starter. Say hi to Betsy for me!

ray

Re: Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by chill

Posted by chill on March 06, 2001 at 15:04:27:

Greg,
Sounds like you are in the same boat as we are – we own one small park and are eager to have another. But, the reason we are so eager is that we waited on the first one until the numbers really made sense.

I think you calculated the cap rate exactly right and I doubt you want to do it for a 6% cap rate. Also, I don’t see anything in his numbers that mention repairs and maintenance which can add up, if the park is in bad shape.

If you add debt service to your figures, you will have a negative cash flow month to month.

But, if you think it has potential, make a low offer. Somewhere around $100,000, with the owner carrying most of it, makes sense to me.

Good luck.

Re: Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by Marc in Portland

Posted by Marc in Portland on March 06, 2001 at 11:04:40:

> Does this look like it has any potential to be a deal?

Well, I’m not a park owner, but I play one on t.v. Just kidding! But I sure have been researching them, driving by them, and crunching numbers in my spreadsheet. This one sounds just like what I’m looking for (if it wasn’t 2500 mi. away!): Motivated seller (inherited it), grandfathered in, run down so plenty of upside. What more do you want?

Some questions:

  1. What is the competition in MH parks like in your area? (i.e., number and quality of parks, typical space rent, etc.)
  2. Besides separate metering, what would it cost to “clean and fix” the park so that other MH owners would WANT to live there for twice the space rent? I mean, including getting rid of the trashy folks and trailers.

One thing you said was,

> At these numbers I figure a cap rate of 6% at 216K
> NOI/price= cap rate I would like 12% but that comes
> out to 108,299

Wait! Don’t lower the cap rate to please the seller. The park is what it is: old, run down, no one wants it (incl. the present owner). That type of park definitely sounds like one that SHOULD yield a 10-12 cap, depending on what other parks in your area sell for. (Ray might know, since you’re both in VA.)

I doubt any bank is going to loan money on this purchase, so the seller HAS TO offer financing.

I’ve sent you a copy of my Excel spreadsheet that I specifically developed to evaluate MH Parks and MF properties. (I hope you have Excel.) Put your numbers in there, then tweak the price and the down payment until you get the Internal Rate of Return to equal at least 30%. Then, offer slightly less than that price and terms and see what the owner says. If necessary, show the seller your numbers and talk about what you’ll be doing and thereby PROVE what it’s worth: he can’t argue with facts. Don’t change the numbers to make the deal happen…if you can’t get him to sell at the price your calculations prove its worth, move onto the next park and call this guy again in 6 mos.

I would suggest giving Ray a call and hiring him to assist you if you think you need it. I mean, he’s in your state…if he was in my state, I’d be hiring him. (You might also order his book from this site, “The Dealmaker’s Guide to Mobile Home Parks.”)

Marc in Portland

Download it from… - Posted by Marc in Portland

Posted by Marc in Portland on March 21, 2001 at 14:17:28:

http://www.aptsnw.com/property-analyzer.zip

Re: Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by Lisa’s Lane

Posted by Lisa’s Lane on March 10, 2001 at 16:22:03:

Marc in Portland…what are the chance of receiving that excel sheet. Believe it or not we are closing on a 40 unit MHP on March 23rd. Owner holding $175K and bank at $300K if this appraises okay. First appraisal is not looking favorable. Will get the book. Your help appreciated.

Lisa

Re: Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by Bobby-TN

Posted by Bobby-TN on March 07, 2001 at 06:51:29:

Mark,

I am with Christy on this. Can’t get thru to you.
Sure would love to get my hands on your spreadsheet.

Good Investing,

Bobby-TN

Re: Any suggestion on structuring offer on MHP - Posted by Christy in Texas

Posted by Christy in Texas on March 06, 2001 at 17:22:52:

Marc in Portland - tried your email to no avail. I would be interested in your spreadsheet analysis of a MHP. I am in the same boat as GregVA but without the pitbulls ---- and Ray!