Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Auctioneer on November 25, 2010 at 07:55:09:

Brenda, you may be on to something. I’ve actually thought about buying storage sheds and bonusing my better single family renters and also renting them as an upsale to the others. My reason though was two fold. One obviously is to make more money. But the second which really is the same thing… I read a very impressive study that the more storage and stuff a renter had the longer they stayed put. In the single family rental business turnover is our greatest expense. Hence, one of the big reasons the MHP is one of my favorite rental properties. If you think about it… the MHP renters stay put for the same reason. It would cost them too much to move.

Back to the storage shed idea, it’s doable. I could try it with maybe 2 sheds at first. Also sheds are fairly easy to move ($100 roll back charge).

btw - I do charge $25 more for the spaces that have carports in the MHP. Also I own a small interest in a self storage place. It’s like anything else, not all roses. My company doesn’t manage it (thankfully) but I do the Auctions on the delinquent units. Sometimes it’s not a pretty scene. If I did not have a stake in it I wouldn’t do those sales.

Thanks Brenda, happy Thanksgiving to you and all who read this post!!!

Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on November 21, 2010 at 15:58:34:

No Karl I don’t mean rolled one over or tipped one over in college.

I am wondering if anyone has bought a used camper, fixed it up and sold it with any luck or degree of success?

Tony

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Auctioneer

Posted by Auctioneer on November 22, 2010 at 15:14:42:

Tony, (and to whom ever wants to take a shot at this brain fart):

The closest I came to flipping a travel trailer was when I was working an auction in South Alabama and S. Mississippi a little over a year ago. Yep, you guessed it, Fema campers. The Auctioneer who asked me to come down to help out let me pick the cream of the crop and I paid the average sales price. I ended up purchasing 2 and paid to have them hauled to TN.

My original intent was to Lonnie them in my MHP as I have some very small spaces available due to MH’s getting bigger since the 70’s and squezzing out some pads. After getting them to my farm and really checking these things out, I decided that was not such a good idea as they looked like they would run down faster than a normal camper. So I held on to them until February (tax refund time) and sold them quick doubling my money. And lucky for me I did it before the flood gates opened and thousands began flooding the market and migrating up.

I’ve not bought anymore because I felt fortunate to get out when I did. I sure did not want to carry paper on one even if I did have the lien position on the title. However, I have wondered… Has anyone ever rebuilt one from the frame up?

If I could get my hands on a good Fema frame (Wheels, hitch, etc) I could build it wider than a camper (cantilever 2 feet each way). The cool thing is that remodeling a camper requires no permit (I checked). I could put it in place and build it without incurring regular toter and set up expenses. Sure if it ever was moved out it would involve a MH mover but who cares. My point is that I would have no more than 8K in it. Build it like a MH and in some cases better. Sell it to a retired person for 12K on time if I had too and have the dirt rented for $200 a month that is now sitting empty.

So Fire away. Where is my logic flawed? And even still I’d have to find a frame, lol. All criticisms welcome!

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Dr. B. (OH)

Posted by Dr. B. (OH) on November 22, 2010 at 07:34:26:

I have a colleague who used to own seven 100+ parks. He sold them in 2003 when he thought the MoHo business was headed south and bought several commercial properties. He got heavily into “buses”, actually, those huge 35-45 ft. motor coaches. He is a part owner of a used bus dealership in Nashville.

I called him with what I thought was a deal on a motor coach. He said it would have been a deal if it was a coach for entertainers or a passenger coach but virtually no one was buying coaches for their own travel/camping. This corroborates Jeff’s and John’s observation that the camper business is way down.

BTW, campers are generally self contained and have a lot more mechanical parts like generators, water and sewer tanks and pumps and more proprietary mini-stuff like tiny sinks etc.

What I have noticed is the few places people can take their vehicles to get them repaired. Have you noticed how most service stations of old are now just gas and junk-food stations? I have a friend with a house on Lake Norris, TN who has been begging me to set up a boat service business because the locals have no sense of urgency in fixing the weekenders’ boats. Unfortunately, I think a lot of this is driven by car, boat, and RV manufacturers and dealers making vehicles unserviceable without release of parts, specialized knowledge, and tools.

OK, so what is my summary here. Few people are buying luxuries or optional items like boats, campers, sports cars, etc. BUT many people still own these things and need to get them serviced or want something related to them such as insurance, storage, covers, winterizing, etc. We have to think locally, what cannot be outsourced to India, China, Mexico, Chile, etc. Services like trash, sewage, recycling, house cleaning, vehicle repair, home repair, some electronics repair (if it isn’t cheaper to just replace), entertainment, bars, restaurants, etc, etc, etc.

It would also be nice to figure out what can be manufactured and shipped right here in the USA cheaper than anywhere else in the world.

But, of course, one of the few remaining commodities that cannot be outsourced is real estate. As always, buying right is the trick. But this is not what is meant by a “cottage industry”.

Steve

Steve W in WA may have - Posted by John Merchant

Posted by John Merchant on November 21, 2010 at 22:46:24:

Tony I know Steve W in Bremerton got an RV, maybe as down pmt on a tincan, so you might check with him.

1 or 2 of our biggest multi-jillion $$$ RV dealers have tanked in this recession.

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by JeffB (MI)

Posted by JeffB (MI) on November 21, 2010 at 18:38:57:

I’ve owned five travel trailers over the past few years, including the behemoth fifth wheel we currently spend our summers in. Only one of these was purchased with the intent to turn a profit.

I believe there’s a great business opportunity for the individual with the capital and knowledge to open a used trailer business, the key being a strong mobile service fleet to handle manufacturer warranty repair. In my area, most every RV dealer but one went out of business when the RV industry tanked (2008). Getting good service on an RV is impossible, and enormously frustrating.

I’m curious what made you post this question, Tony?

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by JeffB (MI)

Posted by JeffB (MI) on November 23, 2010 at 06:54:04:

I assume you are talking about a long travel trailer frame. That being the case, I do not believe it would hold up to the weight of what you are proposing, especially if it ever needs to be moved.

A 35’ trailer for example is going to weigh in around 6,500 pounds assuming no slide-outs, and will have a GVWR of let’s say 8,000 (just an example). This is accomplished using thin aluminum stud walls, vacuum bonded fiberglass and very light cabinets, counters, etc. But you’re probably proposing wood framed walls, heavier cabinets, etc, resulting in a MUCH higher total weight, exceeding the capacity of the frame and more importantly, the axles. No way I’d move something built like that - it would twist and break apart.

Now what about finding old 12’ mobile home frames and doing the same thing, but no cantilever? You could probably find the frames pretty cheap and you’d know it’s built for that purpose to start with.

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Shawn Sisco

Posted by Shawn Sisco on November 22, 2010 at 15:25:25:

8’ wide is max for Dept of transportation, also, I believe 400 sq. ft is max to not be classified as MH, which then falls under HUD building code.

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on November 21, 2010 at 19:51:44:

Jeff,

My reason for posting, like most of my thinking is pretty simple.

We work on mobile homes and have the tools and knowledge to adapt to other things. I have not worked on a camper but imagine that the mobile home repair background would come in quite handy.

Doc B and I were discussing the backyard type investment that one could spend a few hours of their personal free time here and there and make a few bucks doing something they enjoy.

A neighbor of mine is currently working on a camper and I got thinking if there might not be a niche to make a few bucks here and there, kind of like Dr. B was talking about doing with cars.

I could see my family enjoying the use of an RV here and there and then sell it to work on another one. Personally I wouldn’t mind having one around during the summer to accomodate me and the boys when family and friends come to visit so that everyone would have a bed!

Tony

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Auctioneer

Posted by Auctioneer on November 23, 2010 at 07:11:27:

Excellent thought. Though they are expensive to move because of the insultaion, but if demolition can be done before moving this might be the key. If unit is longer than 50 feet (maybe even less in some spaces)it would have to be cut off. Most of the 12 foot frames I’ve seen already demolished…well the frames seemed not quite square.

As for camper thing you are correct about weight and it would really never be intended to move (pure technicality). A great deal of structure would have to be added for sure.

Thanks for the input!!!

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Auctioneer

Posted by Auctioneer on November 23, 2010 at 06:58:37:

You made my point. The trailer frame is 8’ wide, titled and tagged as a travel trailer and put into place, leveled and anchored at my MHP. The demolition can even take place there if need be but the new structure built on site (no permit required because it is on a travel trailer frame; tagged and titled). Once it is cantilevered it would require DOT permits to be moved again but that’s someone else’s expense down the road (no pun intended).

As for the size. 8 foot wide now becomes 12 foot wide. It is 28 feet long not counting the tounge but one could add 2 feet to length with no problem(steel bumber already there). 12x30=360’ which is less than 400’ (Hud cutoff before being a MH)leaving 40’ available for a loft which I’m not sure would count anyway. No one could give me an answer because no one has ever asked.

Granted this is a crazy A** idea and a technicality at best but I am looking to fill 2 or three small spots with small units bringing in $200 per that presently cost me $8 a month each because I don’t dare let the electric meter be removed as I’d never get it back. In the end, I’d have attractive well built small units and I might even make a little bit now and later in turnover plus 200/mos each. Of course I’d start with only one to work out the bugs, LMAO at myself for even thinking this.

Any other thoughts are welcome and appreciated! Thanks!!!

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Don-NY

Posted by Don-NY on November 22, 2010 at 11:02:04:

Tony,
I have flipped everything from a wire coil winder to a motor home. It’s all in knowing the market and value/ARV. I would research the local market and values. Then go for it and buy one. If you let everyone in your network know you are looking for campers a great deal is bound to appear. I like the mobile camper repair idea also since you already have the knowledge, truck and equipment for most of the work. And more and more campers are being “set” in permanent RV parks. How about a craigslist ad for a $69 or $99 winterizing special?

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by JeffB (MI)

Posted by JeffB (MI) on November 22, 2010 at 10:52:48:

Tony,

I’ve worked on RV’s my whole life and I can say that, aside from basic principles of working with tools, they are a whole different animal than mobile homes.

The primary difference is an RV’s propensity to take on water and the resulting damage can be tremendous. This is not just a matter of cutting out a soft spot in the floor and replacing. Remember, RV’s travel down the road so they must be leak proof from all angles. Water falling on a roof and running off a drip edge is one thing, but it’s entirely another matter when the house is moving down the freeway in a rainstorm at 70mph.

If I had to guess I’d say most all RV’s more than a few years old have some form of water damage (whether known or not). The repairs can be quite difficult and extensive. These things are very maintenance intensive. Most people who own them do not give them the proper care. Which is another service I would offer as a mobile repair facility; an annual maintenance program. Most people have no clue what is required to maintain these things. The industry’s business model is badly broken in many ways and consumer education is largely absent.

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Shawn Sisco

Posted by Shawn Sisco on November 22, 2010 at 09:51:48:

I have taken some in as trade-ins, they were 6-8 year old units and I was asking about 40% of new price - I learned that I was dealing with non-motivated buyers whose mission in shopping was to find a flaw in an RV and scratch that one from their list of candidates.

I think they really enjoy “shopping” for the RV more than RVing. It was a completely different mindset for me, and really no fun at all to deal with.Picky doesn’t begin to describe them.

On the other hand, My father in law has operated a used RV sales lot on the corner of his ford dealership for 35 years and it has been a good complementary side business.

So, I guess you won’t know until you try it. One positive for the RV biz is that Consumer lending is much more readily available on RVs than MH’s.

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by joe --ga

Posted by joe --ga on November 30, 2010 at 07:16:52:

there are several HUGE 200 plus resort areas in florida
that are ALL travel trailer registered.You simply
register it as a travel trailer and then bury the frame
and build whatever you want on top if it.You are
required to buy a tag each year and place it in a
window of the home.Some are upwards of $200,000 “travel
trailers”

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Bill

Posted by Bill on November 24, 2010 at 06:54:02:

Why not buy a used park model?

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Auctioneer

Posted by Auctioneer on November 30, 2010 at 08:11:45:

Joe, That’s serious out of the box thinking there which is exactly what I was looking for. I would not suppose putting the frame on a block foundation with extra piers in the center or where needed for support would be a whole lot different. (I’m in the hills of East TN).

That certainly opens some doors for thought. Most importantly this proves a point that during these trying times we should use forums like these to learn about other’s markets and niches to find something to bring home to try in our own business model.

Very greatful for the input!!!

Karl (Auctioneer)

Re: Anyone flipped a travel trailer? - Posted by Auctioneer

Posted by Auctioneer on November 25, 2010 at 07:29:17:

Hey Bill, thanks for the input. It was actually park models that I started looking for. For some reason, I have been unable to locate one for a good price in the area. In fact, I’ve not seen many for any price in my area. I also found the moving expenses were about the same as a regular MH.

That’s why I contacted the Auctioneer selling Fema units because they were officially called park models rather than travel trailers, but at 8’ wide they could be moved w/ my F-250 at little expense.

Honestly, either is made better than a Fema so I decided not to put the two I bought in my MHP. Hence, my brainstorm idea of locating a Fema frame. So many of the units that are being picked over have severe water damage that at some point I’d only be buying a frame that has to be wiped clean and started over.

You are probably right… I need to keep looking for a park model.

Thanks again for the input!!!

how about rentable storage sheds? - Posted by Brenda (OH)

Posted by Brenda (OH) on November 24, 2010 at 13:30:55:

could you install storage sheds? or garages?

if you could get two sheds per space, and get $50 a month, that is $100 a month a space, and better than nothing…

just a thought

extra parking, maybe an open pole barn car port? boat storage? travel trailer storage?

Brenda (OH)