Posted by Nike on May 05, 2007 at 09:47:22:
Jesus, Bob, pay attention. Who was arguing the facts in Luke’s case?–Luke’s facts are as clear as mud. You can change the facts all you want (in fact I think you made up facts)but the analysis remains the same. The way you’ve framed it the new owner is not a BFP, however the issue still turns on whether the current owner is a BFP. The only way to successfully challenge the current owner’s claim is to demonstrate that he was not a BFP.
anyone heard of a “title buster”? - Posted by lukeNC
Posted by lukeNC on May 03, 2007 at 14:49:25:
I had lunch yesterday with an RE guy who has almost convinced me that he is a genius.
This guy researches down at the deeds office and the courts to find title problems, all kinds of problems and mistakes which require quiet title actions. From incorrectly processed foreclosures, probate problems, legal description problems, etc etc.
Then, he tracks down the owners (heirs, former shareholders, etc.) or the people who “have an interest, and don’t realize they do or dont care”, gets a quit claim and some other paperwork signed by them, then sues to quiet title. Most times, he’s picking up a nice sized check in the process. Basically its “walk away” money, the best kind in my opinion.
I’ll give one example:
A couple bought a property 7 years ago from a builder. They went info foreclosure 4 years ago and moved up north. The lender eventually foreclosed. But, the foreclosing attorney put the wrong legal description (really wrong) in all of the foreclosure notices. Foreclosure was finalized 2 years ago. Property sold to a new buyer. But, because the legal description was waaaaay wrong, its as if the foreclosure never happened. Almost like they foreclosed on a non-existent property.
So, he tracked down the old owners, got a signed and notarized quit claim for $100 and sued to quiet title. He got $15k in “walk away” money from the attorney who did the foreclosure. Took less than 30 days.
This guy calls himself a “title salvage artist” and “title buster” Anyone else heard of stuff like this?
lukeNC, any update on your meeting w/Titlebuster - Posted by Dave Ojeda
Posted by Dave Ojeda on May 07, 2007 at 18:54:04:
Luke,
Last time you posted you mentioned that you were tagging along with the investor on some easement or right of ways issue. I was wondering what else you learned.
Thanks for Sharing!
docket police… - Posted by Ben (NJ)
Posted by Ben (NJ) on May 04, 2007 at 21:08:42:
It’s rare but I’ve come across a few in NJ, we started calling them the “docket police”.
Re: anyone heard of a “title buster”? - Posted by Joe Kaiser
Posted by Joe Kaiser on May 04, 2007 at 18:18:36:
When I used to visit the courthouse and research foreclosures daily, I’d
often see mistakes being made. The most common mistake was
recording a trustee’s sale in the wrong county, and it happened
regularly.
I used it as an opportunity to get on the good side of the law firm
making the mistake, so any time I’d find a problem I’d contact them to
give them a heads up, and they appreciated my assist.
What the heck was I thinking? 
In NJ I’m considered a title raider. Title buster sounds better.
Interestingly, years ago a fellow called my partner about a property
we’d bought and said, “there’s a burp on the title” and he was going to
use it to hold us up. I don’t remember the details but I do remember
the “burp” thing (we still joke about it).
I’ll have to ask how that worked out.
Joe
Sounds like the 200k / year professional tenant - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 04, 2007 at 15:29:18:
A friend of mine Lorenzo was teaching a seminar some years ago. I think he said it was in Atlanta. One of the students asked to take him to lunch and then wanted to tell him what his profession was.
He said he goes to an area and looks for a rental that is being advertised and managed by one of the top Realtors in the area. He loves those in the million dollar roundtable, etc. He said he rents the property from them and stops paying rent. Then he waits for them to “hang themselves”. They take some action that is illegal or questionable in some way. He then sues and ends up with 10-20K average per settlement - usually from their “errors and omissions” insurance. He said he was making a six figure yearly income from it.
same principles as… - Posted by Jason (AL)
Posted by Jason (AL) on May 04, 2007 at 08:43:30:
…buying up “problem properties” and fixing them (albeit the actual property itself or the financing).
The only difference is that it’s paper.
Wouldn’t you agree?
I don’t see what the problem is concerning what he’s
doing.
He should be commended.
Ya can’t knock the hustle.
(as long as it’s legal)
The difficulty as I see it… - Posted by Jack
Posted by Jack on May 04, 2007 at 07:46:54:
Having done some similar stuff, the difficulty with with this is that after spending a lot of time doing the research and tracking down the former owners or creditors, most of the former owners and creditors, if they have half a brain, are going to blow you off. And hence you have spent a lot of time for nothing.
Re: anyone heard of a “title buster”? - Posted by BTI
Posted by BTI on May 03, 2007 at 23:58:32:
Luke
Sounds like this guy is performing a public service.
The only question I would have is how many can he locate. Maybe in your area there is a lot of incompetence, I’ve only seen a few of these in 52 years of investing and 42 years in brokerage.
Tell him to keep up the good work, nothing wrong with clearing flawed records out of the system and getting info you can count on.
BTI
Title Buster or RE Extortion? - Posted by LK
Posted by LK on May 03, 2007 at 21:54:38:
Interesting concept and I am certainly not passing judgement, but it’s not something I would want to do. I would feel like I was creating RE problems as opposed to solving RE problems. Not the reputation I’m going after.
Re: anyone heard of a “title buster”? - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on May 03, 2007 at 17:45:05:
I agree - sounds like the title version of the “we buy houses” equity scams. Probably will end up in the same place.
15K might have been too cheap… - Posted by Jou can T-IN
Posted by Jou can T-IN on May 03, 2007 at 15:23:41:
Or maybe not. These are just some of the things a person can find lirking around the public record section… There is certainly $$$ to be made if you can find the glitches that exist, and know how to capitalize on them. “Knowing” is the nuance, and one who doesn’t “know” how to recognize these issues that produce value, could spend all week in the records, and find nothing.
You either grasp it or you don’t, is my perception. I have had similar experiences in finding $$$ opportunities this way, and when we are all done, my partner has trouble enough understanding the play (after it has happened and we have cashed the deal). So he is a “don’t get it” type, but he has other qualities. This is kind of an abstract market that you find the opps, kind of like a scavenger hunt, really.
JT-IN
Re: anyone heard of a “title buster”? - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on May 03, 2007 at 15:09:51:
I do the same kind of research but rarely do I end up dealing with
anything more complicated than heirs or multiple owners.
I read a lot of files for quiet title suits as well, to see what kind of
issues are getting solved. It’s never the interesting stuff like adverse
possession. I’m now not even sure quiet title is the right way to go on
AP.
I do know an investor in So Cal who definitely knows how to solve title
problems and his profits are very, very good. He usually doesn’t do the
hunting, they call him from his marketing.
I sure would like to be more skilled in seeing the profits though. In the
example you used, I wouldn’t have figured out to go after the attorney.
I am wondering about the process for the research thread for the kinds
of problems you mentioned. I sure would be interested in tagging
after your RE guy for a day or two, just to see his process. Kristine
The purple pen burp buster program - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 04, 2007 at 19:50:01:
I can see hoardes of certified burp busters swarming the recorders office now. And within a couple months Joel Cassaway will “borrow” the name and come out with his own course.
Next, John Reed will publish a treatise about how Purple Pens are too hard to find. Also that thirty years ago when he actually invested they had never heard of such a thing as purple pens. Then the one time he tried to use one it leaked right through his pocket protector.
Then someone will have an infomercial titled “burp your way to millions” and California will put in place some anti-burping statutes.
similar mortgage scheme… - Posted by Ben(NJ)
Posted by Ben(NJ) on May 05, 2007 at 08:58:47:
there’s a lawyer I know who will take out large mortgages, default and then when the banks come after him will hang them up for years on every possible technicality, truth in lending violations, interest rate calculations, APR disclosures, reg z all that stuff. He’s not very popular to say the least.
Re: Sounds like the 200k … - Posted by lukeNC
Posted by lukeNC on May 05, 2007 at 07:05:11:
thats messed up…
How does he know, though? - Posted by Jason (AL)
Posted by Jason (AL) on May 04, 2007 at 08:46:00:
How does this fella KNOW that there are
title problems by merely rummaging through
the court house?
Re: anyone heard of a “title buster”? - Posted by lukeNC
Posted by lukeNC on May 03, 2007 at 20:39:27:
actually what he does is fully legal. No scam at all.
He’s taking advantage of the system is what he’s doing.
Re: anyone heard of a “title buster”? - Posted by M. Osterman
Posted by M. Osterman on May 04, 2007 at 10:05:31:
Kristine,
I look for liens, abstracts and the like at the courthouse/recorders office as well. I’m confident that there are ways to make profits in the files infront of me…But I don’t know what I don’t know. So I market to lots and lots of people in hopes to discover something ( that’s how I met Rick ). I find that many times I’ve got something and when I talk with the seller or my title officer it’s something that can be cleared up in escrow. Thanks though for the tip on researching QT files to see why they are doing so…any other documents that you review?
Mike