Posted by T Jent on May 20, 2000 at 02:02:01:
Tim. You say you’ve got approx. 35K in equity? Just sell the damm thing without further ado or spousal input. When she SEES the $$, she’ll become a believer quick.
Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by Tim C.
Posted by Tim C. on May 18, 2000 at 09:45:30:
Can anyone relate to my situation ? I had been interested in REI for several years but never pursued it untill just recently. Before I was married 5 weeks ago I purchaced a 3 bedroom home no money down and way under value, this was one year ago. Someone was renting the property when I bought it but I wasn’t sure how long they were going to stay( I didn’t create a new lease ). It actually didn’t matter to me if they left because I wanted to rehab the property. The tenent finally left after 6 months so I went to work. I ve been doing most of the work myself( mostly demolition, tearing out old carpets, etc.) I brought the property up in value so I can refinance. By doing this I pocketed money and can put money back into the property. After the rehab is complete I will make approx. 35,000.00 when I sell. If I choose to lease/option it will be more. Believe me these are conservative figures. This should be a happy ending right,WRONG! I didn’t mention that my wife is against doing this, what I mean is REI. She would rather work 50-60 hours a week and move slowly up the ladder for someone else. She thinks like 99% of everyone else in this world, It,s a dream! Before we were married I thought we had an understanding about my dreams of becoming a full time investor when the time comes (I have a full time job now). She constantly shoots me down whenever I talk about it. For instance the deal that I talked about earlier was unimpressive to her, even though the deal will bring in almost as much money as her yearly salary. I even showed her all of the figures written on paper(this includes the bank loan process). She was still unimpressed. I did make the mistake of telling all of my friends about my dreams,(they didn’t think it was realistic either)but I didn’t think my own wife would be so against me. Carleton Sheets did mention people would react this way but how can I pursue my passion and dreams of being an REI when my own partener(my wife) doesn’t care. I “WILL” CONTINUE TO INVEST IN REAL ESTATE. I know I have to. I would never try to stop anyone from pursuing there dreams to become financially independent or anything else for that matter. I’m sorry to have to talk about this but I’m sure this happens to other people also. Is there any advice someone can give me to help with my problem. I love my wife very much and I don’t want to lose her.
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by Rob FL
Posted by Rob FL on May 18, 2000 at 22:09:27:
Most success books like Rich Dad Poor Dad, the Millionaire Mind, the Magic of Thinking Big, the Power of Positive Thinking, etc., etc. continually stress the point that to be successful requires one to think differently than the average person. I tell my wife that I have to constantly brainwash (actually brain-cleanse) myself from all the negative garbage out there. I do this by listening to positive, success, or other motivational tapes, by reading these type of books, and by associating with winners.
Most people do just the opposite. They spend 25+ hours a week watching TV, listen to garbage on the radio, and associate with a bunch of broke, pessimistic people. And we wonder why so many Americans are going down the tubes. The phrase is GIGO, Garbage In Garbage Out – or Good In Good Out.
My whole point here is not to condemn your friends or your wife but simply to tell you that you can’t simply change someone’s thinking in just a few hours or days. Success is a slow process. The Millionaire Next Door states this over and over.
As for your wife, I have a few more comments. I went to pre-marital counselling prior to getting married. The preacher told us one thing that always has stuck in my head. (I realize that this statement is somewhat of a generalization.) “Men want to be admired. Women want to be kept.” I will just focus on the women part here. He explained what “kept” means is that they want some security and stability in the home. A feeling that their husband is taking care of them. If your wife sees your jobs as security and sees the RE investing as a unstable or a threat to that security, she might be very apprehensive.
I would suggest that you leave your wife be for now. Show her that you love her. Show her that you will give her that security and stability. Build your RE business on the side. Once you have a few deals under your belt and $$$ in the bank, your wife will probably begin to realize that security and stability is available in REI as well. A quote form another motivational tape “Teach them by showing them.”
Best wishes.
Pie in the Sky - Posted by ML WV
Posted by ML WV on May 18, 2000 at 21:54:27:
From what I can see from your message you expect your new wife to be excited because you “think” you have a 35000 profit. (Don’t get me wrong but the money is not in the hand is it) Possibly your wife comes from either a very conservative family where REI is speculative and is not a preferred way to invest. If this is the case then when she sees and feels the money you make on the deal she will learn to slowly relax and let you do your thing.
Worse though is the fact that she might have come from a family that gambled and lost and where money was tight and or wasted. This would be a harder scenario because to get rid of her fears will take a long time.
I suggest that you ask her what is she afraid of? If it is financial insecurity offer to invest some of the money you earn in a plan that is acceptable to both of you. This plan could be an IRA mutual funds CD whatever. Let her decide the relative risk of the investment though. This will help to allay her fears and also let you diversify.
Most importantly don’t negate her feelings just because they dont make sense to you. If feelings were rational then we could all describe love
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by TC
Posted by TC on May 18, 2000 at 20:47:17:
Hey Tim,I can relate to this.My wife had told me that the market was saturated with REI and that there was no room for me.Boy did I ever prove her wrong.When I picked up that check for $16,400 I got the privledge of rubbing it in her face like I told her I would.
You have to keep on keeping on regardless of all the nay sayers.If it was not for all these naysayers,I’m afraid that the market really would be saturated.
Good things will happen to those who percever(hope I spelled that right).
Unpopular opinion… - Posted by Contrarian
Posted by Contrarian on May 18, 2000 at 19:13:02:
I will probably be blasted for saying this but you really need to find out what is important to you. You may love your wife but love isn’t enough to hold things together. And if you don’t believe that look at all the couples that break up after infidelity or financial disaster occurs. It doesn’t diminish the love that was there but it often ends in a breakup.
It is ridculous to have to “prove yourself” to a spouse this way. You just need to find someone that is on the same wavelength. If that person is there right now, then the spouse needs to go.
This is why so many people are unfulfilled. They constantly have to beg, plead, and work for that spouse approval.
The spouse excuse is so old. So many people keep blaming their own unhappiness on their spouse. If she can’t get with the program, then get rid of her. You need to develop some backbone and stand up to her. If she doesn’t support you at this early stage of the game, when will she?
It really isn’t a difficult problem. With 6 billion people in this world, I am sure you can find someone more supportive. The question is, do you have the inner strength to put yourself number one?
I am not saying to immediately divorce or separate but if you don’t resolve this quickly, it is your life that will drag on and on unhappily.
The Prophet… - Posted by JPiper
Posted by JPiper on May 18, 2000 at 18:49:18:
Frankly I wouldn?t bother having your wife read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Rather, how about a little something for BOTH of you from ?The Prophet? by Kahlil Gibran:
THEN Almitra spoke again and said, And what of Marriage, master?
And he answered saying:
You were born together, and together you
shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when the white
wings of death scatter your days.
Ay, you shall be together even in the
silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance
between you.
Love one another, but make not a bond
of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between
the shores of your souls.
Fill each other’s cup but drink not from
one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat
not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous,
but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone
though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each
other’s keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain
your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near
together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow
not in each other’s shadow.
-excerpt from The Prophet, by Kahlil Gibran
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by Steve C., Houston
Posted by Steve C., Houston on May 18, 2000 at 17:06:54:
My wife has never been a big believer in REI, but I think if I showed her a check for $35K, she would be a big believer and would start driving the neighborhood looking for houses.
WhenI first read your message (and then all the posts up to this point), my gut feeling is that you’re missing the real message from her. You need to find out what she really doesn’t like about your investing. Perhaps she sees it as time away from her. Perhaps it’s a big financial risk (to her). If the landlord thing bugs her, maybe you should look into other types of investing that don’t require as much nail-hammering, etc. Perhaps L/O or paper trading.
Listen to her and find out what’s really bugging her. Don’t ask direct questions, just get her to talk about it. “What’s the worst thing that can happen if I get involved in REI?” “How does my being interested in REI make you feel?”
Best of luck!
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by Bill (OH)
Posted by Bill (OH) on May 18, 2000 at 16:24:25:
Bingo! My wife doesn’t care about it–she just wants it done! She just leaves the rehabbing to me and rolls her eyes when a job winds up giving me the inevitable surprises. A lot of girls are real good at the paperwork but don’t want anything to do with the the joy of swinging a hammer and tearing out walls!! Don’t worry though–the marriage can last–we’re celebrating twenty years in June!
What to do when the spouse is unalterably non-supportive - Posted by Eduardo (OR)
Posted by Eduardo (OR) on May 18, 2000 at 16:22:00:
Tim–
Honest answer to a real problem. This is your money, your business, how you make a living (doesn’t matter if it’s part time). You are just like a contractor building on spec. You buy land (maybe with structures on it), you improve the property, you sell it (or rent it). This is called being “self-employed.” It’s your business for which you need tools, a pickup truck, business cards. Do you interfere with your wife’s employment? To be brutally frank, unless you are doing something illegal or immoral, how you choose to make a living is none of your wife’s business (unless you are risking family money–as soapymac says below, keep your business money totally separate). Don’t discuss your business with your wife (anecdotes okay, but business decisions are not). Don’t bring home your business problems. Your problem is really this: no one to talk to, no one to listen, no one bounce ideas off of, no one tell you you are doing a great job. Three possible solutions: Either learn to function without needing someone’s approval, find a business partner (difficult), or just find an ear somewhere else–preferably an older male with experience who can act as a mentor. Remember, years ago, men didn’t discuss business with their wives–they just did it. All the above applies equally to women with non-supportive husbands. Been there, done that. --Eduardo
Have her read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. . . - Posted by dew
Posted by dew on May 18, 2000 at 16:05:08:
then maybe she’ll have an inkling, even if she doesn’t actively encourage you. Good Luck. Keep on trucking.
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by Ed Garcia
Posted by Ed Garcia on May 18, 2000 at 15:17:35:
Tim,
Communication, is the responsibility of the communicator.
Meaning, that it’s extremely important for you to get your points across
to your wife, not just for her understanding of the message, but for you
to know that she understands how you feel.
You know Tim, just because two people love each other, doesn’t mean
that their always going to agree or understand each other. Many people
think creative real-estate is a bunch of crap. We find ourselves not caring
what others think, but when it comes to our loved ones, we want them to
understand and respect what we do.
I’m a lucky man Tim. My wife doesn’t involve herself with how I make
my living. She has enough confidence in me, and respect for what I do,
that she accepts my investing or business ventures as a vocation.
If I told my wife that I was going to invest in Pigs ears, that would be
fine with her. My message Tim, is that my wife has confidence in me, no
matter what I do.
This is something that takes time. Women, can sometimes be from
Missouri, don’t tell me, SHOW me. I think what your disappointment is,
is that you’ve just done a deal that you expected a pat on the back for, and
figured that your wife now would accept your ability in REI, and in
stead, she didn’t give you the recognition that you expected.
We have to be careful with this because you are trying to show your wife
that she is wrong about her feelings by demonstrating that your deal is done,
so therefore in essence what you are saying to her is , you are WRONG.
When somebody is told that they are wrong, their NOT going to accept it
gracefully.
In all fairness to her. You can’t expect her to have the passion in REI
as you do, so you need to go back and clean up the communication.
Now I want you to know Tim right from the start, that it will do you no
good to CON your wife. Her being the closest person to you, she will see
right through that.
You need to sit her down and explain to her that, you are not a dreamer or
a gambler. You have to give her your perception of real-estate investing, as
a sound investing practice.
Although a marriage is a relationship that requires both parties to give and take.
Sometimes it can get confusing as to who should? and when to? give and take.
And that’s where communication comes in.
Tim, you have decided to take this women as your life time partner.
Treat her that way.
Tell her, your intentions in this marriage are not for Gilt Trips, but are for a
mutual understanding and respect. Explain to her how important it is to you,
that if she is not completely comfortable with your ventures, to at least be
supportive of your endeavors, and to allow you the courtesy to prove
yourself or other wise.
Tim I don’t know the compatibility between you and your wife, but one
things for sure, RESPECT isn’t given, it’s EARNED.
Ed Garcia
Unfortunately, MANY of us have spouses that don?t share the same ?interests?. - Posted by SusanL.–FL
Posted by SusanL.–FL on May 18, 2000 at 14:00:37:
They either never had it or have since lost it (like mine)… 
And I can WELL understand your frustration at wanting to share your exuberance at home and not being able to.
All I can say is–THANK GOODNESS for this board!! Tuning in here everyday ALWAYS gives me a lift!! Right here is where you?ll get the encouragement and the support you?ll need to help you pursue and fulfill your dream.
Maybe over time, your situation will ?right? itself at home. In the meantime, KEEP YOUR CHIN UP and keep on investing!!
Susan
Sometimes fun is better… - Posted by soapymac
Posted by soapymac on May 18, 2000 at 13:54:22:
at being a teacher then banging your head against the wall.
First, if you are already into one deal, ask your wife to let you complete this one. Then you will stop. If she is reasonable and can see that the only way to get out without losing your shirt…is to finish what you started, she will probably agree to that.
Second, once you are out of the rehab…and you made a few bucks…put that money aside in the bank or a money market fund…FOR YOUR NEXT INVESTMENT. Do not tell her why you are “parking” the money.
Third, work on your marriage. My youngest son took ONE YEAR and devoted it to finding out more about his wife. IN THAT PROCESS, he found out that he grew up in a very secure, supportive family. His wife had grown up with NONE of that. So…he went to www.richdad.com and purchased Cashflow 101, the board game that TEACHES YOU to think outside the box (JP…any chance you can get this to support the site?)
They both enjoyed the game. SHE enjoyed it so much…and learned about investing in a non-threatening atmosphere…SHE now goes out and looks for property.
Sometimes fun is better as a way to fulfill a dream.
Cordially,
Roy MacLean
“soapymac”
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by eric
Posted by eric on May 18, 2000 at 13:42:16:
yes, I can relate. I had the same problem. I’m in a sort of “in-between” phase right now. We both still work jobs, and do what we can in real estate on the side. But now that we actually have had made some money in real estate, it is much easier, for her and me. For her, because she knows this isn’t just some scam, you really can make money at this, and for me, I guess for the same reason. We’ve all been “taken” by scam artists at some point in our lives, and as for myself at least, even worse than losing the money was the feeling like an absolute fool. That may even be what your wife is afraid of. Something I’ve talked a little bit about here in the past, which is becoming a more and more firm concept in my mind, is what I call the “air of legitamacy”. People can sense if you have this or not - when you talk to your wife, friends, buyers, sellers, about real estate, do they look at you like “wow I wish this guy would shut up” or “da**, this guy knows his sh**.” If you want to succeed, it better be #2, and nothing will help you get that more than getting a “win” under your belt - nothing breeds success like success. My advice would be to push HARD for that first deal, and simply ignore your wife until you get a check, then show it to her, and ask if she understands at that point. You don’t have to buy her anything - you just have to “Show her the money”. Most people don’t understand “third party conveyance in a land trust with my corporation as the beneficiary, sandwiched to a buyer on a contract for deed with a contingency for right of first refusal on financing”. They do understand money.
check out Zig Ziglar - Posted by ANne-ND
Posted by ANne-ND on May 18, 2000 at 13:24:50:
Tim,
Give the marriage some time to mature and make her feel like the center of your emotional universe. I’m not suggesting that you abandon your commitment to REI, just saying perhaps she’s threatened by what she perceives to be a sudden enthusiasm for something OTHER than this new venture you two are starting out on together. Five weeks is a very short period of time, put time NOW into building your relationship, when she feels that you’re 1000% behind her, she’s going to return the support. Sounds like you love her a lot. Make sure she knows that. It also sounds like you have what it takes to be successful in REI. You don’t have to choose between the two, just address her concerns right at the start. Listen to some Zig Ziglar tapes- he’s got one about how his wife sold him on the house SHE really wanted. He analyzes what made her sales pitch successful. We are selling all the time in this life, understanding what makes a particular sales pitch successful will help you in all areas.
Good luck, and congratulations on your marriage.
best regards,
Anne
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by Nikki
Posted by Nikki on May 18, 2000 at 12:11:51:
Hi Tim,
How are you? fine I hope. In my opinion, and remember this is just my opinion. I think you should sometimes keep things like your REI to yourself and try to profit from it first. I don’t think you should stop doing what your heart desire. If real estate investing is what you want to do then stick with it. Your wife should be a little more supportive instead of tearing you down. That can really hurt. You shouldn’t really care how your so call friends feel about you doing this investing, their opinion doesn’t matter. They don’t live for you. You’re living for yourself and your wife. But you know what, try to start into something a little less stressful like flipping properties this is excellent for any newbie starting in real estate investing and if you can join your local REI club in your area. Tim, just keep on posting messages and ideas or probelms you don’t understand on creonline and people will respond and try and help you. And remember it is not good to tell everybody what you’re doing because they could be jealous and they can destroy the ideas you have in mind for a good future. Meet people who are doing what you’re doing and I’ll bet you will come out successful. It’s going to take a lot of patience and some time depending on what deals you have going but most of the time the deals can go through quickly and you can profit from that. So Tim I wish you the best and I hope that your wife can just try to open her eyes and her heart a little more and just have a little imagination about the possibilites that you all can and will accomplish one day.
take care
Nikki
P.S Check out this site for flips with Kevin Myers at world wide web re-hab-wiz dot com(type this all together re-hab-wiz is one word) and click on the discussion board, and read some of the postings and scroll all the way down and read, read, read.
No, I cant relate to this at all… - Posted by Hope(Fl)
Posted by Hope(Fl) on May 18, 2000 at 11:52:46:
I cant really imagine why you didnt discuss your life dreams, and expectations before you got married. I have always been very supportive of my husband and he has been the same way for me. Whether or not you make tons of money isnt the issue, the issue is are you free to become your best self within this relationship? I would sit down with your wife and have a long talk. Ask her what her objections are and really listen to what she has to say. However, you ultimately owe yourself the right to persue what interests you. You are not asking to do anything wrong or immoral, you are just excited about persuing a career. I think it is wonderful that you have found something that you truly love and that can be financially rewarding too. I am pretty much against divorce, but I would seriously have a problem with a life partner who wanted to have control over what I did for a living. My husband has always had a way with making ugly homes look pretty. He is skilled in all forms of carpentry. He is also very creative but never liked the 9-5 routine of being a carpenter and working for someone else. I was the one who suggested that he fix up homes, and not to worry about the bills, because I would work and take care of that. We are partners in what we do, and I support him the same way he did for me years ago when I stopped working and finished up college. I wish you luck and hope you can resolve your differences and come to some sort of understanding, but I dont think you should have to feel as though you must buy her stuff as some sort of bribery. You need to help each other.
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by Branden
Posted by Branden on May 18, 2000 at 10:26:49:
You’ve been married for 5 weeks and it appears to me that if it came down to it, you’d choose real estate investing over your new wife. Not a very wise choice in my opinion. If I were you I’d focus on building a solid foundation in your marriage. If that means giving up investing for a while I’d do it, unless of course getting divorced is one of your goals. I’m not saying you won’t be able to ever invest again but you need to focus on establishing a solid relationship with your new wife. Once you and your wife are willing to sacrifice for each other, you’ll find that what you sacrificed will come back around. I could go on and on about building a solid relationship, but this isn’t the place to do that.
Think about it this way. If you were lying on your death bed, would you be thinking of all the times you and your wife had, grateful for the time you got to spend with her? Or would you be wishing you had done another real estate deal and made more money?
Don’t get so caught up in the game of doing deals and making money that you forget why you’re doing the deals. For me, it’s so I have the freedom to spend time with my wife and children.
Branden
Re: Can anyone relate to this ? - Posted by Mark-GA
Posted by Mark-GA on May 18, 2000 at 10:24:41:
I can relate.
In fact, I think I can top it, and give you a happy ending.
My wife was the same way.
Get this. Based on my urgings, she decided to rent out the home that she owned prior to our marriage. In the 3 years she has rented it, the house has appreciated by about $100k. This does not count the appreciation before she rented it.
Nevertheless, she still moans about the “headaches” of being a landlord. I even found her a great tax-free exchange commercial property to roll her profits into (a sale was pending but fell through). She would have had minimum upkeep and positive cash flow for the first 15 years. After that, the loan would be paid off and she would have a minimum of $55k a year (for life) and own a $700+k property free and clear.
She wouldn’t go for it. Who wants the hassle…? (Never mind the fact that I manage the property for her).
The happy ending is now my efforts are starting to bear fruit and she can actually see the cash coming in. For the first few deals, I bought my wife whatever she wanted. Since then, she has been more supportive.
Now, I don’t really talk about real estate too much. I just bring home the paycheck…