Posted by Jack on June 07, 2006 at 17:11:34:
I would kind of like to know the answer to that one my self. But I suspect there is more than one reason. He certainly has been very visible as a informational TV Guru. But that is only one of many. Some times it may not be advisable to pan too many Gurus?
carleton sheets - Posted by randy
Posted by randy on April 16, 2006 at 20:12:37:
You have all learned all you now know as a result of carleton sheets courses ,so, quit acting like you are some kind of genius who thought it all up yourself. get real !!!
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Larry K
Posted by Larry K on April 23, 2006 at 20:46:48:
Nice sales pitch. Maybe I should try one. You mean all of the valuable information on this site is just a reproduciton of Mr. Sheet’s courses?
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on April 20, 2006 at 24:32:38:
Not sure who you are addressing, but it looks like you think Sheets created the universe.
Maybe a small few here learned all they know from Sheets. Others may have gotten their start through Sheet’s course and then moved on.
Others have invested from long before Sheets became a seminar instructor for Robert Allen in the 80’s. Sheet’s material is a watered down version of Robert Allen’s and has far less depth and creativity. Robert Allen’s material stems primarily from the “Making Money on Little Deals” course taught in the 70’s by Miller and Schaub.
I’ve only glanced at Sheet’s course long enough to know it was derived from Robert Allen’s. I am extremely familiar with Allen’s course and authored or designed some of his later material. So I guess it is probably in Sheet’s course too.
Because he has sold many tens of thousands of courses, Sheets is well known and has given many their start. Most successful investors got their start long before Sheets found a microphone and camera. Few successful investors I know had Sheets as a major influence.
The truth is exacly opposite of what you implied. There is NOT ONE NEW IDEA in Sheet’s course. It is far from complete and very far from advanced. It would be difficult for someone to find much success with ONLY Sheet’s material, but it is a good basic start for people. To imply or think he is the fountain of all real estate knowledge is erroneous.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Randy
Posted by Randy on April 27, 2006 at 23:49:07:
No’ it just affirms some of his comments.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Mel
Posted by Mel on May 07, 2006 at 10:01:31:
HERE! HERE! I totally agree whicha… Far from advanced… Just a catapult… For some. This site’s way more advanced and check this out “IT’S FREE”
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Randy
Posted by Randy on April 27, 2006 at 23:23:57:
you can’t stand the truth, At least he’s not got a puffed up image of himself and his cronies.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on April 28, 2006 at 11:16:38:
And you’ve been in the business 20 minutes? 20 days? I’ve been investing for 30 years. Long before Sheets became a pitchman for Robert Allen’s seminars. A dozen years before Sheets sold his soul to the infomercial world.
I’m sure you’re correct. YOU have learned all you know from Sheets. Good luck having any success in investing.
Sheet’s material is an extremely basic knockoff and plagarism of other people’s materials. There is not one new idea for a couple reasons. First, it has all been taught from long before Sheets decided to capitalize on it. Second, it isn’t original because Sheets did not gain his knowledge from experience, but from plagarizing other people. He made his money in the sales of materials NOT real estate.
Sheets students are nice people I am sure, but they are known as the least trained and capable investors out “trying” to do the business. Out of the many tens of thousands that buy his course, very, very few find success. And, that is usually ONLY after they get a real education from other sources.
This very newsgroup here exists to take the inane and annoying questions from Sheets students and Sheets wannabe students away from the main newsgroup. You’ve just proven that yourself.
Puffed up people do infomercials and write glowing press releases about themselves. True pros make money in the market not on TV shows. I took a stand and turned down doing infomercials long before Sheets had ever heard of them. When my books were published in 1982, Sheets had not yet even begun his job as a pitchman for Robert Allen. Sheets is just the PT Barnum of real estate and you obviously are one of his trained seals. That’s fine. Worship him if you like. Build a statue to him. Sing his praises. No problem. Just don’t be so incredibly naive as to assume that he is a time traveler and somehow taught all the people that were in the business before he was.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Curtis
Posted by Curtis on June 01, 2006 at 20:54:59:
Product + Advertising = Sales
Mr Sheets Merely offers a Course that was made available en masse.
If someone invented the wheel but kept it hidden for a select few who were in search of the wheel. We’d be a wheeless society until someone decided to bring it to the masses.
Now not to put Mr. Sheets on a pedestal but fact is the course is fairly easy to use for beginners and has some interesting reference point for the not-so-beginner.
I’ve done quite well with this course as a Licensed Agent in FL and NY; as well as in my personal investment portfolio.
The term is player hater; but more so for those who are “Seasoned Investors” who poo-poo on the Newbies - Write an article that showcases your prowess instead of grumbling "I coulda done that… " from the sidelines.
ON WITH THE EDUCATION … Regardless of who authored it - Mr Sheets has given alot of people some good solid and sound roots; As a matter of fact if memory serves correctly the course even makes mention of seeking other courses etc.
“A good Teacher expects students to expand beyond the scope of thier founding lessons.”
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by wayne
Posted by wayne on May 14, 2006 at 23:38:43:
I like your attitude…very refreshing.
Heres a true story of mine after reading Kiyosake’s Rich Dad, Poor Dad, followed by someone giving me a Sheets course they had sitting in there closet…(now keep in mind I really really hated my career path and absorbed all this info in 3 weeks)…
I walk into a realtors office in a town 60 miles from portland OR (excuse typos and no caps etc, I am tired)…so anyway I walk into a small Indepent Realtors office in the town of Hood River as I figured they would be ripe for the plucking since Portland is just deluged with I Buy Houses people.
I say “I am looking for houses with a pre 1986 mortgage that are just assumable mortgages with no qualifying”…He looks at me and says Okay…I then say, “and part of the deal will be for you to take your commision in the form of a note”. He looked at me and said “You mean to tell me that you want me to go find you a house where the owner will carry paper, and then on top of them usually paying me my commision out of their pocket, you want me to take it in the form of a note”…I looked at him and said “yes sir”…he looked at me and said “Get the F out of my office”…he was laughing as I walked out the door.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Randy
Posted by Randy on April 28, 2006 at 23:17:00:
And I’m SURE you have no interest in promoting YOUR books ,tapes or whatever it is you are selling, right?? Give everybody a break. At least be real, not trying to put yourself up on some santimonious pedestal. Boooooooo.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on June 15, 2006 at 13:17:09:
Excuse me.
Maybe you could attempt to read posts before replying to them. Read the whole thread and the post I was replying to.
I don’t hate Sheets, nor do I try to criticize him. He’s just an educator not a deity as the original poster believes. And other educators are not just Sheets students trying to capitalize on the wealth of knowledge Sheet’s created. Few educators I have ever known are even Sheet’s students.
And I am not a “player hater” as you intimate. I’ve turned down infomercials from since before Sheets was in the business of education. I replied to a post that someone made that was ridiculous, then he attacked me, my motives, etc.
Read that original post. He basically stated Sheet’s created the world and everyone and everything here is just stolen from Sheets. That is a naive and ridiculous statement. I pointed out that creative real estate and many of the other educators were around long before Sheets and then this guy started insulting me. I have no problem with Sheets, but he neither created the industry or the material he sells. I don’t care about that or whether he does infomercials, coaching, etc.
But, he did not create the material. Every other course and educator did not steal it from him. Of the many, many tens of thousands of students some have been successful. More have not. The successful students I have talked with or heard from started with Sheets and then heavily supplemented their education from other sources. That’s why they had the success and is the approach people should take.
Yet, to claim Sheets is the result of their success is like a Kindergarten teacher taking credit for the success of Bill Gates.
The material is basic. It is not original. Sheets did not create it. Some students have found success. All in all, he has added value to the industry by sharing what he has (repackaged material from others).
But, he didn’t create it and everyone else in the world did not learn from him as the original post stated. Read the posts first next time before you insult people.
“Write an article” Maybe you should also read a little on the internet too before you cast insults. There are many articles here and hundreds throughout the internet that I have written. In addition, thousands upon thousands of posts here. Sheets drinks Margaritas and plays golf for his spare time. I help others.
I don’t “poo-poo on the newbies”. There are very few people who spend as much time and effort helping them as I do. Thousands of posts and thousands of hours. So maybe you should look at who you insult before you insult them also.
Nothing in my posts were “grumbling, I coulda done that”. I responded to the original post that Sheets didn’t create the universe. Then the guy questioned my intelligence, motives, etc. and I responded.
I should have known better than to even come over to this particular forum. There is rarely any value in anything anyone says. Bad attitudes and nasty insults. A collection of guru haters and guru worshipers with little interest in really learning about real estate. Most don’t even take the time to find out there are other 'real" forums on this site.
This particular forum was created for the specific purpose of directing all of that nonsense away from the main forum so that people could actually get an education and help each other. I don’t post here often, but the original post - which you probably never read was ridiculous. So, since you likely did not read it, here is what he said that I responded to.
“You have all learned all you now know as a result of carleton sheets courses ,so, quit acting like you are some kind of genius who thought it all up yourself. get real !!!”
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Alex
Posted by Alex on June 04, 2006 at 24:54:19:
I ordered the course because it was an infomercial on TV and you tend to see a guy for many years on TV and that gives him in your mind some sort of credibility. The ideas in his course, are very basic. There are only a couple of main ideas: a) being a landlord, b)buy property to wholesale it to other investors, c) buy property and retail it to a “retail buyer” and d) buying property subject to existing financing, e) buying property on a lease option. However, the ideas, the negotiation techniques and the financing techniques of these ideas are not clearly explained. So you walk away from the course feeling that he crammed many ideas all together. He did not talke about hard money lenders for foreclosed properties. He did not talk about how to effectively calculate cash flow. How to calculate your holding costs. In other words, he touches upon here, and there, and so forth, but there is so much need to cover such a broad topic, that the depth of the material on any given topic is spread too thin. One walks away feeling that you need to sign up for the mentoring program to learn more.
He is well intentioned I feel and sincere. I think he gives hope that there is a way out of a JOB, and that is, investing in real estate as a long term bet against inflation, or as a possible retirement method. He basically delivers in one important way: he gives hope. It’s up to the reader to buy books from many of the fine authors on this web site for more info.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Rosalind Endriga
Posted by Rosalind Endriga on May 29, 2006 at 18:58:56:
this is cute… love the humor. made me laugh out loud! but mind you, I bought carleton sheets program - spent a pretty penny on it too… and am seriously trying to be a real estate investor… so just wish me luck, ok? In fact, I learned about this website from the seminar I attended. I’ve got a good head on my shoulders and a logical one at that… and I don’t believe we can get away with buying a property using ALL of the options given in his program. at least SOME of them which is better than NOTHING at all. right? in fact during the course, I made a comment as to “who would be so stupid to sell their house for 20-50% below market value” and got quoted over and over by the instructor… that there are people out there who will sell their homes for 20% below market value…and they’re not stupid. I just had a hard time absorbing that. anyway, so far I am enjoying reading all these. it’s my first time to log on…
Roz
Re: carleton sheets and Schaub - Posted by Ed
Posted by Ed on May 11, 2006 at 07:36:22:
John,a question -
I’m a buy and hold investor and own a few rentals. I took Sheets some years back and now have a chance to take John Schaub’s course soon.
Do you think John’s material is still relevant? While I agree with you that Sheets appears to have borrowed stuff from everyone else, one thing I liked about Sheet’s course was that it is all in one place. I think Sheets organized his course well. He may not be the best investor, but he seems like a good organizer and teacher.
I’ve read Shaub’s new book (“Build Wealth One House at a Time”) and it appears a little simplistic for anyone who has done a few deals. Sheets appears to go into a lot more details than Schaub about things like getting your investing life organized, specifics of talking with sellers, doing the math to calculate cash flow and expenxes,etc.
Would you still recommend Schaub’s 3-day course today?How do you rate Schaub with the other gurus today?
Thanks -Ed
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Mark (SDCA)
Posted by Mark (SDCA) on May 03, 2006 at 15:30:52:
Really lame post. John has answered dozens (probably 100s to be more accurate) of questions on the Main Newsgroup for FREE. He has answered questions for me and never made a dime off of me. Your cynical view of John is SO far off base.
Re Carleton, sadly, John is right. I bought Carleton’s course many years ago (~15). And it is VERY basic. Does he still have the technique to trade zero coupons for your down payment? He did with the course that I bought. How often does THAT work?!
I could go on and on. But John has pretty much covered. He obviously has more insight than I do.
Mark
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on April 29, 2006 at 15:39:40:
I didn’t begin this post. You came in and placed Sheet’s on your pedestal. In your wild eyed, worship of Sheets you blasted everyone here on this board and in one of the most naive and inane posts I have ever seen you credited Sheets with being the brightest and best in the field of real estate and that everyone else learned from him and should - like you - worship him. I don’t have any problem with Sheets, but something like your post is so ridiculous and un-believably childlike that it deserved a response.
You started the conversation with your immature and naive slam of others. I only responded. As Jeanne pointed out, I have been a contributor to this site for over 8 years. In that time, with thousands of hours and many thousands of posts, I’ve shared more information than you will find in all of Sheet’s courses - for free. And, it’s real information from someone who has done the business and learned from real life as well as some of the wonderful educators in the field of investment. None of which were Sheets. All of which were before Sheets came onto the scene. Most of which probably know more about real estate than Sheets ever will.
And while some contribute freely to others or sell products at reasonable prices, others contribute nothing and sell products for ridiculous prices. The sum total of all the posts and contributions of Sheets to this site are ZERO. He is a circus showman selling products plagarized from other people and written by ghost writers. Worship him if you like, but grow up for your own good and realize that you could learn from others instead of insulting them. I’m glad you love Sheets and you can build a church or monument to him if you like. I could care less. But the truth is Sheets is a showman teaching basic material and there are many, many, many far better educators out there that could help you find success if that was your goal. I don’t think it is. Hero worship is. And you’ve made how much money in real estate? No one that had ever even done one deal would be as naive as you are. I was doing deals while you were falling off your big wheel and had bought millions in real estate before Sheets began teaching or doing infomercials.
I quit selling my courses about two years ago. I just don’t have time for it. Some people do deals and others promote courses. Some people spend their time in studios or standing in front of yachts and limos they don’t own and some actually do what they know.
There’s great money to be made in real estate and there’s great money to be made in marketing courses. Some do both, but very few. I don’t really like the “real estate evangelist circuit”, but I have enjoyed teaching. With the few thousand people I have taught, I probably have ten times as many successful students as Sheets does with the hundreds of thousands of students he has. But, if selling hundreds of thousands of courses to people that don’t use them or find success is the mark of success, then no question, Sheets should be worshipped. If being worshipped by naive kids with little concept of reality is a sign of success, then indeed Sheets deserves a monument.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Jeanne
Posted by Jeanne on April 29, 2006 at 14:19:17:
Randy,
You’re being a class A jerk. John Behle has been contributing real advice to this web site for six or seven years, and guess what: He has nothing to sell.
Get off your sanctimonious high horse. Get some manners or do not post on our message boards.
Jeanne Foyt
Creative Real Estate Online
Schaub is a master - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 12, 2006 at 14:04:49:
I’ve never taken one of John Schaub’s courses. I was about to say it would be one of your greatest regrets to not take any course of his that you could, then it occured to me I need to get out to one too. Let me know the date and location you are considering and I’ll look at my schedule. John Schaub’s is the only course I would pay money to take and think I could actually learn something from. I sat through the convention last weekend and would have gone into a coma if I didn’t have my Pocket PC and some e bay auctions to keep me busy.
While I haven’t attended John’s seminar or have any courses, I have read many of his articles for years. He is brilliant and in many ways more of the “father” of creative real estate than anyone else. I had a chance to meet him at a convention a couple years ago and he was also as nice as anyone I have ever met in real estate. He invited me to sit with him at lunch and it truly was an honor. Schaub has been investing for somewhere around 40 years, is as creative and well trained as anyone and is a doer. He is a real educator that teaches from his experience of thousands of deals. On any scale of educators in real estate, he would be the top number against which any others would be measured.
Sheet’s course is derived from Robert Allen’s. Robert Allen’s course is derived from the “Miller and Schaub” course taught in the 70’s. It would be nice if things got better with time or when plagarized, but that isn’t necessarily the case. They tend to get diluted, simplified and lose some of the edge and creativity. Learning from Schaub is going to the source instead of drinking muddy water downstream.
Re: carleton sheets - Posted by Julio
Posted by Julio on April 30, 2006 at 23:31:19:
jeanne! I have asked this question before (4-5 yrs ago), why are You calling this forum Carlton Sheets? Is he being charged for advertising? (He should) There are other “gurus” out there (or even better ones) He is definetly not one of the originals… " GURUS SITE"would be better discribe the purpuse. Just an idea from Oaktown_Julio.