Challenge - Posted by Bill

Posted by fred on February 19, 1999 at 14:27:37:


Challenge - Posted by Bill

Posted by Bill on February 19, 1999 at 09:33:28:

Ive been reading these posts for a couple of months now and quite frankly Im skeptical that most of the techniques touted here actually work in real life. However, Im willing to put my money where my mouth is and offer this challenge. I live in the Inland Empire area of Southern California. Im willing to use my resources to buy & flip, or buy, fix and retail as many houses as one or more of you can come up with in my area. I will split the proceeds on a 70/30 basis. My share being the 70% of course. Your 30% represents payment for your knowledge, negotiation skills etc. The techniques im skeptical about are the no or little money down, not using conventional mortgages, seller financing, etc. Anybody can find these houses and pay cash for them, or get a 90% conventional mortgage and put up 10% down payment etc. Im challenging those of you that use “Creative Real Estate Financing” techniques to come forward and show me it can be done. Frankly I think most of the folks here just talk a good show. Hopefully Im wrong, and whomever takes my challenge can show me how and that it IS actually done in the real world.

Thanks in advance for your indulgence.


The most important tool in your arsenal - Posted by Dirk Roach

Posted by Dirk Roach on February 21, 1999 at 09:40:53:

The most important tool in my arsenal I have found is “walk away” power. I have deals come across my plate everyday. If I like one, I play, if not I walk.
Bill has offered a challenge. No sin in that. You either step up or walk, it’s simple.
Bill, let me say this, I’m in San Diego, you ever get down into my area, shoot me an email with your phone and time you’ll be in town etc. I’ll be happy to schedule a lunch with you and discuss Mobile Homes (the arena in which I play). As for your challenge, from the criteria which you posted it’s not a deal, in which I would personally be interested, but hey good luck.
Dirk Roach

Bill, YOUR challenge - Posted by David S

Posted by David S on February 20, 1999 at 09:27:28:

You sure have stirred up the fire here Mr Bill. I personally know several of the people that responded to your post.
I don’t think those professional investors need to work for a 70% discount just to prove to you that this business is real.

Perhaps you would learn more if you offered something of ‘value’ IF one of these people would ‘allow’ you to spend time with them in their area, for a reasonable fee, and hold your hand through a few transactions.

Most seminars don’t relocate or give discounts because one of the non-attendees offers negative input. Why should they? Knowledge is the key… and it cost’s to learn.

So, my challenge to you Mr Bill;

YOU go to the CREonline convention in Dallas at your expense. YOU take the time to relocate for a few days. YOU come with an open mind and meet these people in person. YOU make the convention an opportunity to get all of your questions answered by some of the most creative minds in the business…

…or you can sit back, make all of the excuses many of us have heard for years, and try to stir up some more negative thoughts.

I personally wish to meet you in Dallas.

David S

Sign me up, Bill! - Posted by Kev.

Posted by Kev. on February 20, 1999 at 24:16:32:

Hmmm…Let me see…
3K per deal to set up the deals…30% of the end profit…no management or maintenance responsibilities…30% of the principal paydown…a tax deduction for depreciation…NO MONEY OUT OF MY POCKET…
That’s what I would get for working with Bill with most of HIS terms. And Bill G., NO vinyl siding here.
Hogs get fat, PIGS get slaughtered.
Where do I sign up, Bill?

Re: Challenge - Posted by SCook85

Posted by SCook85 on February 19, 1999 at 20:39:07:

I have been investing full time since June 21, 1998. I quit my full time job without ever doing a single real estate transaction (except for my own home). I had $2000 in the bank when I did this (that money was for bills). I have since completed 25+ transactions and currently have 12 properties under my control. I have not used a single penny of my own money this entire time to purchase a home. I have used credit cards when doing a rehaba but outside of that I had no money to use. Today I have the knowledge to buy most anything I want. You talked about playing the numbers game with making offers. That is what much of this is all about. Depending upon what you are looking accomplish you do need to make offers, we don’t get them all. If I want to buy 5 properties a months I do have to make 10-15 offers a week. I’ll never buy 5 a month any other way.
If I would have thought the way that you are I would still be managing restaurants today. I got up off my butt and hit the streets and made deals happen. Chances are even if you have someone take you up on your offer and get the deals done for you, you won’t be able to do the deals yourself. You learn by doing. There is so much that we can’t teach on this site and no matter how much I read, and how many questions I asked there was and still is so much to learn. I make mistakes in this business everyday. I still pay to much for properties now and then, I still make bad calls on buyers, I still let good deals slip away because I didn’t think of a more creative way to do the deal. Just get out and do it. Apply the basic principles that you learn here and the rest will come.

If all you want to do is put money up you should consider becoming a lender, many people are looking for hard money and you can make pretty good returns doing that.


My first L/O (no money down) - Posted by Johnman

Posted by Johnman on February 19, 1999 at 19:32:12:


I signed a L/O agreement last week with no money down. The owner basically just wanted me to take over payments and give them $3K once the property is sold. Loan balance is $40K, about $16K worth of repairs needed, will sell between $75-85K. The profit might be small to some but this will be good enough for me. It does happen!

Good luck,

Re: Challenge - Posted by Bassman

Posted by Bassman on February 19, 1999 at 19:22:00:

YEAH!!! What they said. Thats it . Yeah!!!

Live long and Prosper(if you invest right)

Re: Challenge - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on February 19, 1999 at 18:42:13:

Yup Bill,

This stuff can’t be done. Not in California, not any place. Why don’t you get off you lazy fat *ss and make it happen for yourself.

If you think it can’t be done then it can’t be done by you.

Re: Challenge - Posted by Bill

Posted by Bill on February 19, 1999 at 18:38:18:

Thanks to all of you who spent time answering / criticizing my initial post. Especially to Ed Garcia whom I spoke with on the phone. He is a very helpfull fella. He stepped up to the plate and offered to show me it could be done in my own back yard.


Re: Challenge - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on February 19, 1999 at 17:51:01:


Sometimes we don?t know what we don?t know.

I can tell you that I have personal knowledge of some very nice deals in the Inland Empire. One involved the purchase of 22 fourplexes?.each of which was resold to a separate buyer?.and all of which were closed simultaneously. Net profit to the buyer?.approximately $500,000. This buyer then sold a property to the seller in San Diego in a 1031 exchange with the seller?s proceeds from the fourplexes?.resulting in another large profit, plus ongoing management fees and a back-end profit split. My estimate is that the investor profit may well have been $1mm+ upfront, plus the other fees and splits. The investor put up some earnest money? perhaps by your definition this was not a no-money down deal. A complicated transaction.

Now I?m not suggesting that you have the ability to do a deal of the above type. In fact it?s clear from your post that you do not. Nothing wrong in that.

What I am suggesting is that there are deals that are happening. These deals are being put together by knowledgeable, experienced players. Right in your own backyard. I could go through many other deals, from apartment buildings, to land, to single family homes?.all in S. California.

I no longer live in S. California, so I?m not interested in your challenge. But it seems to me that you can take one of two routes. You can believe that deals of this type don?t happen. Maybe everyone on this site is just talking, and not doing. Or you could take the time, and make the effort, to learn some skills. Once you have the skills, you can attempt to do some deals. It?s up to you.

Either way, I?m sure it isn?t going to make much difference to the players in S. California if they have one less, or one more, player in the market. Good luck with your choice.


Re: Challenge - Posted by Sean

Posted by Sean on February 19, 1999 at 17:02:47:

It’s an interesting challenge, but I don’t flip. Was curious, tho. How much money were you planning on putting “to your mouth”?

I DON’T THINK SO!!! - Posted by Rob

Posted by Rob on February 19, 1999 at 16:29:43:


Using money to lure people in. Thinking they will bite. Trying to leverage people labor. Pure exploitation. Work of a pure capitalist.

Sorry, I don’t jump through hoop too well. I am not your typical tradition 9-5er. I don’t follow rules and order too good. I think majority of the people don’t need to neither. They are smarter than that. If they are going to go for that, they might as well go to work for someone. Your missing the point here.

Stop trying to go on the fast lane. Learn to study, and educate oneself like everyone here. YOU, my friend are using money to buy an education without going through the ABC. YOU, are trying to A to M, M to Z. One have to crawl before one can walk, Walk before they can Run. Do your ABC!!!

My 3 cents

Challenge to You - Posted by Baltimore BirdDog

Posted by Baltimore BirdDog on February 19, 1999 at 15:19:58:


So basically what you’re asking is for us to pay for your creative real estate education by sharing 70% of the profits with you while you learn how to structure deals.

I don’t think so.

I’m with Ed. We don’t have anything to prove to you. If you don’t believe it can be done, WE DON’T CARE!!! In fact, the very reason many of us are interested in real estate investing is to divorce ourselves from people who continuously expect us to prove our worth yet give next to nothing back in return (i.e., just about every employer in the country). And as far as your offer is concerned, there are plenty of people willing to fund deals who understand the business and charge much, much less.

Here’s a challenge. Why don’t YOU go down to your local bookstores and buy and read everything about real estate you can get your hands on. Why don’t YOU spend hours upon hours learning the local property values in your market. Why don’t YOU spend some time looking for and reading about creative ways to solve sellers’ problems to give you the tools you need. Why don’t YOU spend some time reading this board and investing in courses and seminars in areas of real estate investing which interest you. Why don’t YOU spend time educating yourself about all the legal and tax ramifications of real estate investing. Why don’t YOU refine your negotiating techniques to get the sellers to accept those techniques. THEN come back after you’ve done some creative transactions and contribute something to this board by letting us know your successes and failures. In short, prove it to yourself. We’ve got deals to do.

I’ll be honest with ya Bill - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on February 19, 1999 at 14:33:00:

The people that know how to do the deals don’t need the money(your resources, I would assume that is what you were talking about). There are plenty of deals out there that require little or no money to do. And when they require a little money, I get the money from other sources than myself but, not at a 70/30 split. Seems to me you believe your money is worth more than your education. I’ve spent the last two and a half years educating myself on business, RE and Investing, others on this site have for 10,15,20 years plus. I would sit back and educate yourself so that your perception and perspective will change. This post may come across as harsh but, I just really mean it to hit home, no anger intended.

Good Luck

David Alexander

Sure, I’ll help - Posted by Mark R in KCMO

Posted by Mark R in KCMO on February 19, 1999 at 13:55:18:


I would be happy to show you how to do a deal or two.

But in order for it to work properly, you will will be best served if you choose what area of investing that best suits your personality.

I will also need proof of funds, and you need to be able to respond withing seconds of finding a deal.

No waiting till the ball game is over, no saying, I’ll do it next week.

If in fact you do not respond in that fashion, then I will recieve the 30% of the protiental profit lost do to in action.

These funds need to be in cash.

My minmum profit that I will look at is the higher of 20% or 15K.

My e-mail is at the top of this pages, and yes I do have a history of working with partners.

Hope this helps
Mark R in KCMO

I’m with you Kev. - Posted by Dean (IL)

Posted by Dean (IL) on February 19, 1999 at 12:48:47:

I think Bill is just trying to incite some ideas. What’s wrong with being a skeptic? I think he’s inviting someone to show him a way to “change” his thinking…that’s all. After all, that is the beauty of having such a forum as this, free exchange. Lets try to show Bill rather than cut him down.

Everybody seems so uptight… - Posted by Kev.

Posted by Kev. on February 19, 1999 at 12:14:48:

Man, bite the guys head off.
If I lived in your area, I would definitely take you up on your offer. Heck, pay for my expenses plus a fee per deal, and I will come out there and set up some deals for you!
Why so negative to this guys question?
He must have touched a nerve with some of you.
E-mail me Bill. I’ll work with you. And I’m not desparate to do so, either!

Re: Challenge - Posted by Bill

Posted by Bill on February 19, 1999 at 11:29:09:

I appreciate all the comments so far. Fred, I am quite comfortable in retirement thank you. I do “pound the pavement” every day. I DO understand the various techniques that the folks talk about on this forum. However, its been my experience that most of the techniques work quite well on paper, but when it comes to actually using them, they dont quite cut it. Now Im not saying that a person that “pounds the pavement” every day, and makes 2 or 3 offers a day wont eventually find one that works. (BTW, I make atleast one offer per day) Thats just statistical averages working for you. I read a post the other day where an individual laughed at someone who had 20K or so to invest and was going to use it on one property. He said that he could take the 20K and buy 10 properties. Thats the guy that I want to come forward and show me. Anyhow, unless you have some constructive criticism, or are willing to “Show me” please just read this post, and move on. Thank you

Re: Challenge - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on February 19, 1999 at 11:23:10:


Your challenge, is about as exciting as watching paint dry.

But I?ll tell what I?ll do. I am also in the Inland Empire.
And because of the fact that your in my back yard, I?ll show how to do
some deals and even finance them for you.

But, you?ll do the work.

Nobody here has anything to prove to you Bill. When I started out in
this business there was no forum like this one to help me get started.
As a matter of fact this information was closely guarded by the players
who were doing deals, because they didn?t want to create a competitor.

Bill, below I gave someone 5 tips on how to structure a deal.
Look at it, see if you were thinking along those same lines.
As far as being creative and conventional financing is concerned,
you can be creative with conventional financing.

Many times when we talk about being creative, were actually talking
about how we can do deals with our limited resources.

What I teach people is how to do deals with their given circumstances,

My number is (909) 944-0199. If you don?t take me up on my offer,
my feelings won?t be hurt.

Ed Garcia