Posted by tang-0-rang on March 12, 2000 at 14:28:38:
I thought your post was great, I would like to converse with you if you have the time, to discuse a few creative deals I have lined up…if you dont mind giving advise.
Cordially
Todd Williamson (CO)
"Creative vs Cash! Who wins? - Posted by The Main Cog
Posted by The Main Cog on March 11, 2000 at 14:04:43:
While a Carleton Sheets student with no money or credit is giving a seller and agent a song and dance act about taking a second mortgage, loaning him commission money and swapping boats for property so he can buy their house; someone like me will pull up and say, “I want the property, I have cash, I can close right now.” I win and you lose, it’s just that simple. Money talks and “creative” walks. The lion’s share of good deals go to people with money and credit. The “creative” dealmakers are left to fight over the scraps!
Re: - Posted by Bill Taylor
Posted by Bill Taylor on March 12, 2000 at 15:06:25:
Must be nice to have won the lottery, why spend time fooling around investing. Now really, I have been in the business for a long time and I can tell you there was a time unlike today that if you wanted to borrow money and invest in real estate you had no chance. The sources were completely dried up for investors so you had to be creative. Oh by the way you can get rich doing just that. If there are bad times you can make a heap of money and if there are good times you can also make a heap. You are in times when the supply of funds is readily available but when those sources dry up you are all washed up. Then you will be crying about no deals, come on in here and learn something from these folks, I have.
I thought I was the only one good at making an a$$ of myself! - Posted by Jacob
Posted by Jacob on March 11, 2000 at 21:52:27:
At least I have the balls to sign my own name to my stuff.
Darn, what a dumb thing to say at a site named CREATIVErealestateonline.com My gut feeling is that you were simply looking to ruffle some feathers. Perhaps you are the kind of person that gets a kick out of sudden fame.
What you wrote was one of the dumbest, most un-enlightened things I have ever written. David A. said it the best. After you have gone through your bankroll, no matter how much it is; David and all of the rest of the experienced investors will be doing deals infinitely. You do not have a prayer against them, my friend. Not a prayer.
My advice for you would be to become a silent participant on this site. You see, this is not a place for any yahoo to post their opinions about any topic. This is a site for experienced investors and newbies to interact. To share ideas, thoughts, and plans. Don’t feel obligated to participate, because clearly you have nothing material to share.
Jacob
St Louis - Posted by Laure
Posted by Laure on March 11, 2000 at 21:30:30:
Sounds like it’s time to go to St Louis and get lenders begging to give us more money??
See ya there !
Laure 
Re: "Creative vs Cash! Who wins? - Posted by Andy in Michigan
Posted by Andy in Michigan on March 11, 2000 at 20:15:33:
What a very crude “Atilla the Hun” style of motivating us REI’s to do exactly what we want to do - be free! What a yutz!
I feel better now.
Re: "Creative vs Cash! Who wins? - Posted by Tommy_FL
Posted by Tommy_FL on March 11, 2000 at 18:04:10:
I really don’t see the point of your statement unless you already have enough cash to live on for the rest of your life, your are a wealthy person and are showing it off. So why bother investing if you already have all the cash in the world. We, poor RE investors and limited in cash and obviously not as lucky as you, have to resort to our creativity and greater challenge to attain wealth. Unless you’re already a millionaire, what happens if your cash runs out?
My right arm was stronger than my left so I cut it off. - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on March 11, 2000 at 16:45:29:
There is a place for cash and a place for creative deals. Many are best done with both. I usually drive lower prices and higher profits through creativity - Yet in some cases cash is the key.
Sure, there are deals where cash screams and creativity just squeaks like a bad hinge. Your point is well taken and I agree to the extent that most people waste their time with deals that have little chance. Most should focus more on developing cash, financing or partner resources.
To have the blinders on and say this technique is good or bad, this way to find properties is good or bad - the best or the only way is way too limiting. Whether that is too much focus on creative deals without realizing the power of cash or vice versa.
Too many times people are like a bad eye doctor. You go in for a checkup and he just hands you his glasses and says - “here use these they’ve worked great for me.”
Creative vs Cash – they both win/tie!! - Posted by JoeB(Atlanta)
Posted by JoeB(Atlanta) on March 11, 2000 at 16:23:30:
Main Cog, Ed is right–don’t take a stand without standing behind it with your name!
Anyway, I’ve found that both Creative AND Cash are equal ‘winners’ in RE investing.
Unless the seller has made it clear to me that he’ll throw me out the door if I say anything creative–and 90% of the truly motivated sellers never say that, and are very flexible and open-minded!!..
I always explain to the seller that "I can pay all cash price of $xxxx, BUT I can pay a much higher price of $yyyyy if I can pay him a portion of that as a cash down pmt and the remainder in monthly pmts of $zzz for zz months with a balloon/lump sum due at that time…blah blah blah "
About a third of the time the Seller’s greed glands start going, and they accept the more “creative offer” I pitched (ie seller financing, although once I offered an old car as down pmt).
So, the lesson for me is to keep both creative AND cash in your ‘toolkit’ and attempt to offer both (if it works for the seller’s needs) on each property.
Best of success–whoever you are,
Joe Brillante
Re: "Creative vs Cash! Who wins? - Posted by phil fernandez
Posted by phil fernandez on March 11, 2000 at 15:35:15:
Cogman,
You just didn’t only put your foot in your mouth, you swallowed your shoe. LOL.
I would print out what David and Ed said and paste it onto your mirror so that you may read it while you shave each and every morning.
Now all cash offers certainly have their place in getting some good deals. What happens when you run out of cash? Do you stop doing deals? It would appear that with your way of thinking you would.
You will have to learn how to generate deals without using your money. That’;s where creative thinking and creative financing come into play. All seller’s problems are not solved by throwing cash at the deal. Sorry you missed the recent convention in Atlanta. There you would have learned to be creative.
Now I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying that you are limiting yourself. Learn creative financing.
Good luck.
Re: Let me tell you how the rabbit ate the cabbage… - Posted by Ed Garcia
Posted by Ed Garcia on March 11, 2000 at 14:58:04:
First, I’d like to say that if you’re going to make a statement, don’t hide
behind The Main Cog.
Your statement will have more value when you stand up to take the
position that you’re taking with conviction, not hide behind a fictitious
name.
Actually I agree with you, MONEY TALKS, BULLSH*T WALKS.
There is no doubt that with CASH, you can negotiate from a stronger
position.
The old cliché, Cash is King, is true.
When you’re making cash offers, the sellers feel you have more
credibility, no question about it.
But where you fall short Cog, is in being Creative, you can do both.
I create an illusion with financing and cash.
You see, If you can be creative in financing, the seller can’t distinguish the
difference between financing and CASH. It all becomes CASH to them.
Eventually Cog, you’ll run out of cash. If you learn how to be creative not
only in technique, but in financing as well, you’ll never run out of money
and will be able to do more deals.
Creativity is not only a specific technique or concept, but a thinking process
as well.
Once your mind is free to create that process adapts into other areas as well.
Not only am I creative in real-estate but financing as well, and believe me
when I tell you they complement each other.
Trust me Cog, not only can I make the same presentation as you from a cash
position, but I can structure deals to accommodate the seller to make deals,
while your still trying to figure out where to get the money.
Cog, I never run out of money, because of my creative abilities.
When you do, call me, and I’ll help you do your deal.
Ed Garcia
WRONG!!! You have to… - Posted by David Alexander
Posted by David Alexander on March 11, 2000 at 14:34:27:
Protect your cash.
Ok, I’ll take this own, I love it.
Ok, first we’ll Assume you must have very deep pockets, because if you dont your going to be out of cash quick and then I’m still going to doing deals, spreading cash as thinly as possible, increasing my yields from anywhere in the range of 25% to infinity. Remember CASH is our most valuable commodity other than time, and once it is in a property equity is no longer cash, unless you figure liquidation prices, which then your cash is now only worth anywhere from 10-60 cents on the dollar.
Ok, maybe your using your credit and borrowing the cash, that takes time and if your borrowing from institutions, in the mean time I’ve already figured the sellers needs and given them the cash they need, or got them whatever they were going to do with that cash and tied the property up while I’m finishing off the deal, your still at the bank getting the deal approved.
Also, There are alot of good deals out there that if you throw your cash/credit into them you have now created a unneeded RISK on your part. I’m talking about the deals 70-80% of the market where they dont make since as cash deals yet they are still good deals because of other factors. If you throw all cash at these deals you will exhaust it fast and get it stuck. Meanwhile if you use other “creative” as you call it techniques you might end up with some nice properties and some 7-8% loans, something that most Investor loans dont come near. I have some out there NO Interest and simple interest, can your credit get you that.
The way I see it is instead of putting new tools in toolbox, and learning new ideas, your losing a lot of deals do to someone like me who can figure and solve a sellers needs other than all cash. I can generally move faster and move on deals others cant touch. Why becuase I’ve taken the time to educate myself on deals others wouldnt think about.
Dont get me wrong Cash/Credit has it’s place, and I plan on starting to build my credit with institutions here in the near future. But for the most part, I borrow funds privately, or sell off created cashflow, pieces of a deal, etc, etc. in order to put a deal together.
Hope you stop and take a look at the missed opportunity, by only thinking with the left side of your brain.
David Alexander
Really! (What a fool I am) - Posted by Equiman
Posted by Equiman on March 11, 2000 at 14:13:34:
Oh I see it so clearly now!
You have enlightened me Mr Cog, and I think now I will go out and find a job. Your advise has shown me that my last four years of profit that came from “Creative Deals” was just a dream! What a fool I am for wasting those years on this silly “Creative” home buying.
Thank You Mr Cog.