Thanks for the Lis Pendens meaning. Here’s how I would interpet (defend) calling these people. There name and/or property was stated in a court document which is public record. Since the whole public would, if they choose, have access to this, they have access to it. Phone books are different, there are laws against that. Actually it is more safe to call someone when you have there address and you have to find there number, than it is to have there number and no address. As far as MLS goes. In Canada there number is not published either. But they are still subscribing to a service. The new law specifically states that they can be called after that service has expeired.
I remember seeing a few posts on what the impact of the new National Do Not Call Registry would be for investors on this forum. However in searching the archives under iterations of “do not call” and “telemarketers” I can’t find the post.
Does anyone remember seeing that post? Where is it, or who posted it?
The main thrust of the thread(s) you missed were folks expressing the viewpoint that Thomas did below.
I think Thomas (and the other worriers) are exactly right…if you are cold-calling homeowners in an effort to sell them something (program or service) or offer them something (program or service). Thomas points out that this is a problem for realtors. This makes sense, because they often cold-call homeowners offering to sell them a service (i.e., list their house).
Similarly, I think an investor would have a problem if he calls folks offering them a service (“we have programs to help you out of your financial situation”). On the other hand, if an investor calls someone asking if they are interested in selling their house, this doesn’t seem to fit the Do Not Call criteria of telemarketing to sell or make an offer (which is what I’ve read).
The new law is named Telemarketing Sales Rule. If I call you with an interest in Buying your house, it seems unlikely that that would come under the regulation of a Telemarketing SALES rule.
I’d like to see someone post some legitimate reference to the new law that would suggest that calling someone with an offer to Buy something from them, rather than Sell them something fits.
Re: Do Not Call Registry - fallout for investors? - Posted by Thomas(GA)
Posted by Thomas(GA) on July 23, 2003 at 10:24:42:
Cold calling under the new rules is illegal. At this point, that would include investors calling on a property that is not being marketed.
The National Association of Realtors is looking at ways to get around the new restrictions because Realtors will not be allowed to cold call for listings.
Some people in this forum may try to disregard the new rules. But with the response that the Do Not Call List has received, I am thinking that enforcement is going to be pretty strict, at least in the beginning.
Thanks Ron and everyone else that’s replied so far.
I was wondering about this because I am getting ready to start a cold calling campaign more for practice than anything else. however if it is now illegal to place the cold calls, or restricted in some way, then that’s something we should know about. I also like Ron’s interpretation, and also hope that someone posts something that clarifies the law for investor purposes.
Do you think cold calling is an effective way of finding “motivated” sellers? From where do you get a cold-call list? Why are these folks any less annoyed by receiving cold calls than I would be?
I think what everyone is looking for is clarity. If a person has had there property listed in the MLS system than they can be contacted for a period of time after the expiry of the listing by anyone who has access to the system. As far as cold calling someone to see if there interested in selling, the government will not be interested in these. They are more concerned with big telemarketing companies using predictive dialers. If this was illegal that would mean I would not be able to call the owner of a house I just did a drive by on. The AMA has made sure there are loop holes in the ruling.
But then, would that mean that we can cold call owners who are doing an FSBO, or who were once listed but who’s listing has now expired? Is cold calling them legal or illegal? I guess I want to be clear on the finer points of what can and what cannot be done. According the law as I understand it, we can still cold call someone who’s had their property listed. Who else can or can’t we call?
Look at the definition of ‘telemarketer’ and ‘telemarketing’, which define to whom the law applies. Also further down you’ll find the exceptions to the rules. #3 seems pertinent to investors.
Also in there somewhere is a statement about making more than one interstate call. One call to someone across town probably isn’t covered in this law.
…realtors often use a criss cross directory to call every homeowner in their farm area.
We’d probably limit our calls to those we have reason to believe might be motivated…preforeclosures, out-of-town owners, landlords filing evictions, etc.
You would obviously be calling people who are in preforclosure, not just calling house to house.
They should be less annoyed because they are about to be homeless. Most of us have never faced that threat. If it were me, I’d be interesting in talking to whomever could help.
FSBO propects leave themselves open to calls. That’s the whole idea of eliminating the realtor. If no one called them they’d never sell there house. If you call a person who had there house listed and it has expired, you have 90 or 120 days to contact them. On the tail end of that, like I said in my previous post, if you see a house you like there’s nothing stopping you from contacting the owner to inquire. the line of free speech is wide open for argument when its not a production telemarketing company doing the calls.
how would this differ from affiliates of our credit card company who have reason to believe that, because we have a good payment history on our accounts, we may be interested in joining their ‘traveler rewards’ program?
Then they aren’t exactly “cold.” I wasn’t clear by this new thread that we are talking about calling only people we beleive to be in trouble. I really liked Ron’s answer, but wanted to clarify. I’m not sure it is obvious to everyone.
On your points 1 and 3, the answer is the same. I don’t think the question is about FSBOs. Of course you can call a FSBO; they invite calls by advertising. The issue is, is it okay to download hundreds of lis pendens files and look up all the phone numbers and spend days calling one after another. Calling homeowners who have expressed NO interest in selling. No ads. No listing. Nothing. And on the same note, if you are calling hundreds of lis pendens, how could you NOT be considered a “production telemarketing company”?
As to point 2, I don’t think that having listed your house and then the listing expiring should make you open season for callers. I’m pretty sure the only only calls you’ve authorized during the listing are those specified in the contact instructions, and after expiration, only the listing agent (i.e. renewal). I know I certainly would have an issue if my agent sold my info to disinterested parties.
Under the new telemarketing rules, a person who has inlisted a parties services, i.e. an MLS system has knowing or unknownly allowed anyone with access to that service to contact them for a period of 90-120 days after that service or product has expired. This was included to allow company’s an opportunity to “winback” customers. As you know, realtors and private citizens have access to the MLS system. Your agent is not involved in any “selling” of your information. Can you clear up “lispens” for me. Not sure what you mean.
designed to stop those who “sell” or is it designed to stop those who prospect for business by calling people unannounced. We’re all selling SOMETHING. Even if it’s a service, we’re selling it.
Our access here to the MLS does not include phone numbers. I don’t even think it includes addresses. Only a general idea of the area, such as the subdivision name is given. I also believe there is only “active” listings there, not expired ones.
A “Lis Pendens” is a legal filing to the court stating the mortgagee’s intention to forclose. It’s Latin for “Litigation Pending”. The context I used it was a desctiption of what I do. I have a service that collects all the Lis Pendens as they are filed. I can download them in several formats, including mailing labels. Anyhow, I get the newly filed ones, use an online phone database to cross to the addrress, and start calling away.