"dual agency" - Posted by florence

Posted by Linda Simms on July 23, 2003 at 13:31:54:

Good try but not quite. Many people, especially most experienced Investors, do not want to use a Realtor and certainly have the right not to do so, just as those who do, have the right to do so. You have your recommendation and I have mine. Mine is “Save your Money” by not using a relator, unless you have absolutely have to. Enough said.

“dual agency” - Posted by florence

Posted by florence on July 22, 2003 at 01:26:23:

Hello, I was just wondering if an agent can both represent the seller and a buyer? and to what things might a buyer look out for? Can an agent present the buyers offer to the seller??
Here in our area, about 90% of the houses for sales are listed by an agent…and since that, I’m thinking of working with an agent…and just need some little twists on the buyer’s standpoint…anything that i should be aware of??
Thank you for your time, you can email me or just post your thoughts in here…
florence tauese

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by florence

Posted by florence on July 23, 2003 at 03:13:32:

Thank You All for taking the time to answer my post!
I guess it all depends on what state you’re in…as to some has dual agencies and some don’t… This is the first time I’ve heard of a buyer’s broker agreement or somthing like that… Well, I went today to look at some houses listed by an agent… Yes, you can’t get around the agent as to getting more infos on the financing part and the sellers information…all they care about is PRICE… as to one of the property listed by this agent, she showed the property to me…it looks real good, but she mentioned that someone had an offer on the property and was rejected… I didn’t ask what the offer was… but then, how would someone know exactly what the seller want and his needs?? yah, that’s all that’s gonna be is “offer rejected”… but i managed not to think too much about it, I don’t know what offer the seller might accept or reject… I’ll just give it a try… my family likes the house too… But I surely thank you all for the answers given… take care…
florence tauese
hinesville, georgia

Re: No such thing - Posted by Ed Copp

Posted by Ed Copp on July 22, 2003 at 20:53:36:

as a licensed Realtor. Now that said there is such a thing as dual agency in my state. It is tricky.

As a licensed real estate broker (not a realtor) I work alone from time to time. That is to say I have no agents. I list and I sell. My state seems to think that it is difficult to serve two clients at the same time, and sometimes it is.

We are required to use a form that all parties sign. This form states that all the parties know that there is a dual agency, and do not object to that. In the case where there are other agents in the office the broker could appoint another agent to represent one side or the other thus eliminating the dual agency. In my case I have no agents, so this is not an option. I would be curious as to how other states do this.

If the buyer or the seller objects to me being a dual agent I do this. I set aside some of the commission and direct the objecting party to hire a lawyer. I will pay the lawyer a set amount (or up to that) from the commission. Thus treating the lawyer as a co-op broker might be treated. This works fairly well as the party who objected now has representation outside of the office. It is not irregular that I will need to educate the lawyer, on the subject of real estate. In my town I have been in real estate longer than any of the lawyers have been practicing law, and longer than some of them have been alive. It is a distinct edge, for me.

Realtors, is a group that one can join by paying dues. There is no such thing as a licensed Realtor. There are licensed brokers, and agents who join the club called Realtors, (or not).

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Joanne

Posted by Joanne on July 22, 2003 at 06:25:52:

The short answer is “it depends” – and the longer answer is it really does depend on what state you’re living in. In Florida there is no such thing as Disclosed or Undisclosed Dual Agency anymore. It’s illegal. As a licensed REALTOR I can list a property for a seller as a single agent, a transaction agent or a category called non-representation. Working with a buyer I can be a single agent for the buyer, with a buyer-broker agreement (i.e. listing the buyer as I would list the property), or a transaction agent or a non-representation agent. When I list I always start off as a single agent with the permission of the seller to allow me (and my office since the listing belongs to the brokerage office not the individual agent) to Transition to Transaction Broker. That means that when I, a member of my Team, or a member of my Keller Williams office has a buyer for “my” listing we can show it without addition permission or engaging in Undisclosed Dual Agency. When we work with buyers we offer ourselves as Transaction agents. That way we can always show the listings of our office.
If we have a Buyer-Broker agreement with our buyer we still have to Transition to Transaction broker to show our own listings.
So, if you want a broker/agent to represent YOU it’s important to request single agency with them and to consider signing a buyer-broker agreement.
A Transaction broker represents neither the buyer nor the sell but works for the best deal for all parties to the Transaction. This can work very beneficially for all concerned.
The agent for the buyer presents the offer to the agent for the seller and then negotiates the offer.
The agents are hired to keep everyone at an arm’s length and working for the deal – keeps some of the heated emotions out of the transaction.
Remember to check your state licensing law to understand exactly what is available to you as a buyer or seller. Your local Board of REALTORS in your town or county can give you that information if you stop by and ask for it…
BTW I am in Florida and what I discussed applies here.
Good luck!

Augusta, Ga. - Posted by Donald

Posted by Donald on July 23, 2003 at 03:54:41:


I live in Augusta, Ga.—email me when you get time.
I will give you a couple of ideas on how to buy houses listed in the MLS system or FSBO below appraisal.


Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Linda

Posted by Linda on July 22, 2003 at 10:31:32:

And after you have read this and understand it, please let me know. Sounds like a good reason, not to use a Real a tor. What ever happened to the good old days when an agent represented the seller and everybody knew it?

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Joanne

Posted by Joanne on July 22, 2003 at 13:02:41:

I can’t say that I agree with you. It’s not very confusing at all and when a seller or buyer reads the entire disclosure and make their decision they are fully informed.
There are many benefits to using a professional - no matter what the field. And disclosure by any professional is to be Encouraged, isn’t it?
And as to what happened to the “good old days” well, what happened is that the various states authorities decided that they could better “protect” the public (especially buyers who spent a lot of time with an agent who did not and could not represent their best interests) they would set up these specific Brokerage Relationship Disclosures. This was not the doing of REALTORS it was the states who made this decision.
The old days were not all that good when it came to buyers and their representation.
The world is more complicated every day… sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s a pain-in-the-patoot, sometimes we just have to adapt.

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Linda

Posted by Linda on July 22, 2003 at 15:16:32:

Any way you cut it, the money to pay the realtor, comes from the buyers funds when the deal is closed. Unless a buyer’s broker has a separtate agreement, where the buyer pays the broker directly, his funds are deducted from the purchase price. Who represents who is sometimes questionable, but in the end it may be mute, as the commission is paid. Most experienced and fairly new investors are quite capable of representing themselves and thus saving the commission for one or the other.

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Joanne

Posted by Joanne on July 22, 2003 at 15:26:13:

Yes, the point may be moot but also remember that the buyer can’t go around a REALTOR if the property is listed with one. That is when having the experienced professional on your end is beneficial. And, FYI, even in a buyer broker agreement the funds to compensate the agent generally comes from a percentage of the gross commission offered by the seller. In 17 years I’ve never had a buyer offer a commission on a residential re-sale - it has always come from the listing agent.
If it’s a FSBO then people often go to an attorney.
Now that’s where you can really spend money!
Good luck!

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Linda Simms

Posted by Linda Simms on July 22, 2003 at 19:51:52:

Another very good point. If the money in a Buyer Broker arrangement comes from the gross commission offer by the seller, then who does the Realtor really work for and what are his responsibilities to a buyer, when he in fact is actually working for the seller? Dual Agency wouldn’t last long in a court of law. I agree a Lawyer may in the long run cost you more, but not just to close the sale. Actually you don’t need either, and to use either one of them is just more money out of the investor buyer’s pocket/or the Investor seller, depending from which end you want to look at it. All you actually need is you the investor yourself and a title company. It works very well. The Investor is the “real” professional here and most of them know it and act accordingly. You don’t need either a Realtor or Lawyer. Any investor worth his salt, hardly ever uses either, only when absolutely necessary. If the Realtor has a listing you can always wait until it runs out or go to the next one.

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by jorge

Posted by jorge on July 22, 2003 at 18:56:22:

"If it’s a FSBO then people often go to an attorney.
Now that’s where you can really spend money!
Good luck!"
When you say that… are you saying that with an attorney you will spend more money that with a realtor?

Just learning…



Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Joanne

Posted by Joanne on July 22, 2003 at 20:03:32:

That’s why Dual Agency is no longer allowed. If there is a Buyer broker agreement than the agent is working for the buyer and so states when presenting a contract. Representation is not a legal status based on money but in declared intentions.
And I am glad most people don’t think the way you do -I work with, and am also an, investors all day long. Every one appreciates the knowledge and skill I bring to a transaction. I think you’re sounding hostile and would not want everyone to think that anyone thinks an investor is not a professional, but so is a REALTOR. Again, it’s a matter of experience, personal choice and long term investment goals.

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Linda Simms

Posted by Linda Simms on July 23, 2003 at 09:16:04:

I hate to burst your bubble, but a Realtor in not a “Professional” in the same sense of a Attorney, Physician, or i.e. a Military Academy graduate. They are merely someone who has studied a required amount to have a state license, much like a plumber, electrician or carpenter. Most Investors who have spent anytime in the business have at least as much if not a lot more R.E. knowledge than almost any realtor. A Realtor may be very benefical to help along a newbie and may have to be delt with when they have a listing on a property an Investor wants to purchase. A few can also be helpful if you can get them to understand what you are looking to purchase, and if they will go out and find it. However, one must keep in mind that a Realtor who is also an Investor, would be likely to keep the best finds for themselves and I don’t fault them for that. This is not “hostile”, it is mere fact. Most experienced Investors, use Realtors sparingly, if at all. Almost any Guru book or course will tell you the same thing, if thats any recommendation. No offense on your “profession” but in the R.E. Investors game, cold hard facts, due dillegence your own knowledge and persistance will usually result in your desired goals, not a lot of “professional” advice. Although you may think everyone appreciates the skill and knowledge you bring to a transaction, if you are talking about experieced Investors transactions, it is most likely they are just letting you think that to be nice. Why not it keeps everybody happy.

Re: “dual agency” - Posted by Joanne

Posted by Joanne on July 23, 2003 at 09:24:27:

That’s okay - I appreciate your comments. You’re not bursting my bubble any more than my opinions are bursting yours. I guess I do wonder how you can speak for “most investors” but I guess you feel that you have that experience.
No one, especially me, claims that a REALTOR is the same as a doctor - so where you get that from my notes is amazing.
Anyway, let’s agree to disagree. People/investors will use REALTORS and you will not. As long as you’re doing yourself the best service it is immaterial to the rest of the world —
I’m an investor, active in investment organizations and work day in and out with investment properties. I love the business and most of the people.
So, let’s just say you don’t want to use a REALTOR and that’s great - some people do and that’s fine too.
Best of luck!