Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by Rob Ricker
Posted by Rob Ricker on August 22, 2003 at 21:36:26:
Ever heard of the golden rule?
Nothing is always perfect in life, so I think you guys should cut the man some slack. It’s not easy pleasing everyone all the time … ya know?
Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by Ron (MD)
Posted by Ron (MD) on August 22, 2003 at 14:12:06:
Hugh,
I have emailed and left phone messages for Debra (a manager), which are not returned. The most recent was a week or two ago…when Paul told me that you are growing and the result of that is that you are slower in responding to clients requests for checks and you have lowered your performance standard to 3-5 days (from 1-2 days).
I can’t call you on your cell phone because I have no idea what the number is. Maybe your other customers do. Frankly, Hugh, my interactions with you have always been very positive and professional. Unfortunately, I have to deal with folks like Debra and Paul on a day to day basis.
You’re right that one of my account statement problems was a timing issue. Several others were outright mistakes that were never explained to me.
As for the security of my account, my post said that I “thought” there was a difference. I don’t remember the specific explanation, but I think there are legal differences between Equity Trust and Entrust related to the type of custodian or administrator each is and/or the relationship between the administrator, their bank, and the investor. As I suggested, I’m not sure about this.
As for “undisclosed” fees, here’s a couple interesting ones on my July statement: $40 (notary fee), $27 (wire transfer fee). These may have been disclosed in your literature, but I don’t remember them. They do seem high.
A couple questions:
Is it correct that you used to mail requested checks in 1-2 days and that has now increased to 3-5 days? When I get an invoice from a contractor, I now have to tell him that you might take a week to mail it, then we have to wait for the USPS to get it from the west coast to the east cost. It would have been nice if customers had been advised of this change…I had a couple very impatient contractors awaiting checks.
Is it correct that you expected to implement an online account statement last summer, but it is still not available?
Is it correct that the only way I can get a monthly statement is to submit a request at the end of each month? Given my problem with statement errors, I am just not comfortable waiting for a quarterly statement.
Ron Guy
Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by Joe C. (AR)
Posted by Joe C. (AR) on August 22, 2003 at 12:32:15:
Hugh,
I tried to contact your company twice yesterday to discuss my intentions. A voicemail recording promised a quick return call. After more than 24 hours I still have not received a response. If this is an example of your service, I’m also inclined to go elsewhere even though going in I was looking to your company first.
Joe C. (AR)
Re: Thanks for the information - a few questions - Posted by Stephanie
Posted by Stephanie on September 01, 2003 at 19:37:43:
Ron,
Thank you for responding. So, if I understand you correctly, the land trust’s beneficial interest is Ron Guy and receives all profits tax free as long as no money was borrowed to do the transaction. Am I correct in assuming that you paid the UBIT until you had accumulated enough cash in the IRA for subsequent rehab deals to be self funded by the IRA? Also, if you do not draw out any salary for management services to the IRA, how do you receive salary? (I am assuming that you need a salary for living expenses). Do you use any other entities for your business that are unrelated to the IRA deals? To avoid the UBIT, I could use a SEP-IRA which allows a greater contribution each year than $3,000, however I will be taxed when the funds are taken out as a distribution unlike the tax free Roth. Quite a conundrum. Thanks again.
Well, I know, but - Posted by Brent_IL
Posted by Brent_IL on August 22, 2003 at 23:19:30:
What you say is true, but a businessman doesn’t have to please everyone, just his customers. Especially ones that have done business you with over the years.
I don’t know how many properties Ron Guy has that applies to this category. He says he averages 20 rehabs a year. Why should the company tell a long time customer to get lost? It would make more sense to pay five people overtime to fix his troubles, so that Ron could come back here and post about how responsive the managers were once they understood the problems.
Perhaps you?re right and I over-responded, but the ?If you don?t like it, leave? response strongly reminds me of my daughter?s ?Whatever? response to just about any criticism, no matter how constructive. She?s 17 and has little life experience and none at all in business.
Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by Hugh
Posted by Hugh on August 22, 2003 at 15:22:03:
There is no legal difference among custodians and trustees. All must comply with the tax code. As you know, the custodian of your account is a $12 Billion national bank. It is not a securities firm. National Banks must have federally insured accounts these days, unlike securities companies.
The mailing of checks for re-imbursing contractors has been changed from 1 to 2 days as a matter of ensuring that expectations are met within 3 to 5 days. This is the same standard as most others and commercial banks.
Previusly, there was no statement of the number of days. As you are aware, you would fax us in the evenings and your checks were sent the following morning in the past. Due to volume increases we can no longer do that on a routine basis. We will however accomodate such requests on an exception basis.
Our software vendor’s promise was not delivered on. You are right, we expected this in June of 2002. Anyone may obtain a statement at any time by calling or e-mailing statement@entrustadmin.com
You have not advised us of any statement errors. The ones that had been complianed were satisfactorily handled years ago. You have not made us aware of any problems recently. If you have problems you need to let us know, not post issues on a public board where no one can disprove a negative. If you want a daily statement you can have it.
Notary fees are customary and are disclosed as are wire charges. You have a signed fee agreement in your posession.
Although we value everyone’s business, and you have remained one of those clients for years, we will happily accomodate your move to another vendor.
Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by Hugh
Posted by Hugh on August 22, 2003 at 12:48:05:
I have personally followed up with you. I have also researched your call, and you are receiving a call back today. I also gave you my personal cell phone number. Thanks for thinking of us first, because we are the best!
Re: Well, I know, but - Posted by Rob Ricker
Posted by Rob Ricker on August 22, 2003 at 23:46:51:
If you’ve ever been in a corporate environment, then you know that it’s not as easy as paying five guys overtime to handle a customer’s complaint. Fees would have to increase because of the additional expenses incurred and the customer would be mad about something else. I’m not saying that Entrust is doing things right or even wrong for that matter. In the long run, they either take care of their customers or they die. That’s the way business works.
But in the meantime, I think people need a little more patience in their life. Most of their problems are created in their own mind. I mean, is it really that big of a difference to have your vendors paid in 1-2 days vs. 3-5 days? I’d be thrilled either way. Sounds like someone has too much time on their hands or has over committed to their vendors.
People would be surprised at how smooth life goes when you treat the other guy with the same respect that you want. It would also be great to see people hold themselves to as high a standard as they hold others to. Well, that’s my sermon for the night.
Have a great Saturday
Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by rm
Posted by rm on August 22, 2003 at 16:40:28:
>Due to volume increases we can no longer do that on a routine basis. >
That’s as flimsy an excuse as "due to increased call volume, you wait time may be as long as [longer than ever], or “because of all the recent refinance activity, we can’t close your loan on time.”
If volume has increased, then add some staff. Don’t expect long-term customers to suffer because you’ve grown as a company. This seems to be the standard attitude in American business these days. Eventually, a competitor enters the arena, treats customers better, and takes your market share.
>You have not made us aware of any problems recently. If you have problems you need to let us know, not post issues on a public board where no one can disprove a negative. >
Most dissatisfied customers don’t complain because it’s far too inconvenient to do so, and really very rarely yields results that justify the time and energy. Surely you realize that for every customer that complains, there are 10-12 more that feel the same way.
And, maybe his post was a good wake-up call for you. To me, all custodians for self-directed IRA’s appear to be the same. Perhaps a USP built around customer satisfaction is in order, as opposed to “we have increased our volume.”
>Although we value everyone’s business, and you have remained one of those clients for years, we will happily accomodate your move to another vendor.>
Wow, what a closing statement.
I’m meeting with my accountant to move my IRA’s to a new custodian. Thanks for helping me to decide which one not to use.
Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by Hugh
Posted by Hugh on August 22, 2003 at 13:04:05:
You have just been called and you asked us how to structure a deal which is substantially not permitted. But we are there to serve your needs. Perhaps the deal you ask about, a highly leveraged transaction using your IRA funds and buying property managed by you can be done in a different manner to suit your needs. It is also helful to do research on such transactions which are available on our site. Most of the answers you ask are there for you. After that call and you will be properly responded to.
Re: Well, I know, but - Posted by Rob
Posted by Rob on August 23, 2003 at 05:48:38:
Rob,
Just for the record, let me explain why 3-5 days’ processing time is a big deal for me.
I can’t afford to use Sears’ remodeling to rehab my houses. The contractors I use are working and living on a shoe string. I would prefer to use the guys with the new trucks, uniforms and big bank accounts, but most rehabbers can’t.
When they complete a job, they want to get paid…today. When they start a job, they need some money to buy materials.
I can work around some of this by (like I said) ordering all the draws at one time for a job. When work gets done to earn a draw, I can just pull a check out of my desk and deliver it to the contractor. I just checked…today I have 7 Entrust draw checks for a total of $12k in my drawer. I used to order checks from Entrust that I expected to need in the next week of two, now I order as many checks as I can, as soon as I can.
So, when I contract with someone to work on a house, he says, “when do you want me to start?” I, of course, want him to start asap. Unfortunately, if he needs money for materials, I now have to tell him that “the checks are coming from California…they take up to five days to mail them, then we have to wait for the USPS to get them here”. That’s 1 1/2 weeks. Many contractors are just not able or willing to start a job and wait 1 1/2 weeks to get their first check. Some can, many can’t.
The other problem is when something unexpected comes up. The contractor needs to do an unplanned job and it needs to be done right away. As we speak, I’m waiting on two checks for a total of $1,800 for just this type of situation. Again, the problem pops up, I tell the contractor to please take care of it. He does, but then he has to wait 1 1/2 weeks to get paid.
Now that may sound to you like “someone has too much time on their hands or has over committed to their vendors”, but I think that’s life in the rehab business.
Ron Guy
rguy24@comcast.net
Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by Hugh
Posted by Hugh on August 22, 2003 at 21:01:39:
Thanks for your comment.
You can’t please all the people all the time, but we sure do almost all of the time.
You are so right that we are in the customer service business. In fact we overdeliver on our service at all times. The response was directed to one individual who has had an account with us for many years.
What he didn’t say is that he particularly likes the fact that we do closings faster and better than the other custodians, that is why is still here.
We selected the 3-5 business days because our old standard of instant results was not reasonable under any circumstance. You add people under reasonable circumstances.
What you also didn’t know, this client also has checks well ahead of time to pay vendors that he retains until he needs them.
He cannot use the CREONLINE forum to accuse us of having less than secure protection of uninvested cash, when it is all FDIC insured; He cannot tell people that we don’t disclose fees when we do, or fail to inidcate that four notary acknowledgements at a statutory $10 a piece equals $40, or that the bank charges $27 for a wire transfer. It is unreasonable for him to leave facts out, and is deceptive. We will not allow our company to be maligned in such a manner. We have provided tens of thousand of customers with excellent service for decades. In this case, if the client is unhappy and feels that providing misinformation to CREONLINE participants is a proper forum for this, we cannot abide by such deception. We will happily transfer his account, and have offered to do so in the past.
If your standard is to accept the words of someone who casts dispersions on others without complete facts being presented, I would propose that you instead determine on your own if the statements are accurate.
If you have an account with us, you know that our clients are provided with excellent service.
I am only sorry that someone does not provide a balanced and fair assesment of our services.
There is a very simple solution… - Posted by JP
Posted by JP on September 01, 2003 at 12:03:34:
Set-up a new c-corp or LLC which is owned primarily by your self-directed IRA (have the IRA fund the new entity in return for its shares, etc). Now go and open a bank account and voila - you have full control over the IRA money and can pay your contractors whenever you want.
Re: Well, I know, but - Posted by rm
Posted by rm on August 23, 2003 at 09:16:03:
I’m facing the same type of challenges.
Robyn Thompson spoke at a Ron Legrand seminar earlier this year about how cheap it is to really fix a home, and how you shouldn’t have to pay in advance, and how she writes 7 checks to rehab a home.
I can’t for the life of me see how it’s possible to have your cake and eat it, too, as she outlines. My options are to either pay very little up-front, or pay the lowest possible price. I choose the latter.
Anyway, I was going to suggest a fatter balance in your cash management account, but this would add a layer of bookkeeping complexity, and you’d be sacrificing some return on the cash in that account.
Re: Well, I know, but - Posted by Rob Ricker
Posted by Rob Ricker on August 23, 2003 at 09:14:14:
I understand what you’re saying Ron. I’ve dealt with those type of vendors too. They’re the “good ole boy” types that have no idea what a “cash reserve” is. They do have the best pricing, though! They need money for that beer run this weekend! LOL
I’m sorry for assuming to know your situation. There’s always two sides to every story. Something tells me that you and Hugh could work things out with some co-operation, though. I wouldn’t give up on a company that’s been good in the past, because the grass is usually not any greener on the other side of the fence (it just looks that way)
Best of Luck in everything!
Oops…above is from Ron (MD), not “Rob” - Posted by Ron (MD)
Posted by Ron (MD) on August 23, 2003 at 05:51:50:
nt
Re: Entrust or Mid Ohio??? - Posted by Ron (MD)
Posted by Ron (MD) on August 22, 2003 at 21:34:35:
Hugh,
You characterized my posts as “deceptive” and “misinformation”.
Just to clarify a few things:
– As for the notary fees: I don’t understand why four notary acknowledgements would be required on your end for a settlement, but I believe you. $40 seemed high for what I presumed was the notarization of a single signature. I was wrong, you were right.
– I never said that you didn’t disclose your fees. I said that I didn’t remember if $40 was disclosed as the notary fee (or $27 as the wire fee). I now understand that the fees disclosed were $10 and $27. Again, I believe you.
– You have said here and in another post that I have been with Entrust for many years. In fact, I opened my account in January of 2001…about 2 1/2 years.
– You said “particularly likes the fact that we do closings faster and better than the other custodians, that is why is still here.” In fact, when you accused me (in a private email) of making my title company’s shortfall into your problem, I said that I knew nothing of any settlement problem and, in fact, that settlements were the one thing that has always run smoothly. I said to you (again, in a private email) that the only reason I haven’t left Entrust sooner was because I was concerned about disrupting scheduled settlements during a transition. I have felt unwelcome at Entrust for many months and would be long gone if I was confident that the transition wouldn’t jeopardize a pending purchase or sale.
I hope that clarifies some of the facts so that neither perspective is deceptive or misinformation.
Ron Guy
rguy24@comcast.net
Re: Well, I know, but - Posted by Ron (MD)
Posted by Ron (MD) on August 23, 2003 at 09:39:08:
RM,
I went to Robyn’s bootcamp a few months ago. It included a bus tour of some of her jobs…a couple finished, a couple in progress. He general contractor accompanied us.
I believe that she only writes seven checks…but I also came away with some other impressions. First, her general contractor works almost exclusively for her…and he is definitely not cheap. I nearly choked at some of the repair estimates he gave us. She did say that she sometimes brings in other competing contractors to keep the main guy honest, so maybe they are all very expensive. Second, the quality of work was surprisingly low. She recommends very professional rehabbing, but the two finished jobs we saw were poor. Again, maybe they weren’t representative of her work, maybe her competitors’ work was even worse. I do know that I wouldn’t accept the work from my guys. Finally, if you’re a general contractor getting high prices and delivering poor work, I suppose you can build up a bank account allowing you to finance projects until completion…she says he gets paid only at the completion of the job.
For me, it’s a struggle to manage contractors who will work for investor prices, yet insure that they deliver quality work. Some contractors will do that, most won’t.
The balance in my cash management account is not an issue. As I’ve said, I generally do have adequate funds in my Entrust account and I order checks well in advance. The problem is that any rehab done by your IRA must be fully paid for out of the IRA. I order checks as soon as I get a written invoice/proposal from my contractor…then the clock starts ticking while I wait for the checks to come back.
I sometimes get estimates from higher-end contractors, but the prices are just too much higher. I recently got three bids on a job…partially to check up on a guy who’s been working for me for three years, partially to test the waters for an additional contractor. I estimated $12k for the job. My regular guy came in at $10k. One of the others was new and anxious to get work…$9k. The other drove a big, new truck, had several crews working around town…probably could have started without material money up front…he wanted $20k. I just can’t afford the extra $10k on a job. (By the way, I took my regular guy’s price, but may use the new guy sometime down the road.)
Ron Guy
rguy24@comcast.net
Re: Well, I know, but - Posted by Ron (MD)
Posted by Ron (MD) on August 23, 2003 at 09:56:12:
Rob,
I’m well aware of the “grass being greener” syndrome. In fact, in this very thread, an Equity Trust customer complained about their service and said she was considering moving to Entrust. I do see the irony.
I suppose it could be that Entrust has great service and I’m one of the few with problems. But, my problems have been real and more frequent than I would expect from a financial institution. Hugh has always been very professional and responsive with me…he seems like a genuinely concerned guy. The problem is that I can’t be dealing with him on a day-to-day basis. You said that you’ve worked in the corporate world. You know that the staff often don’t share the same values and attitudes as the boss/owner.
Here’s another irony. I’ve complained about Entrust’s change to the 3-5 day standard for issuing checks. Well, Equity Trust’s standard is 3 days…truly not a lot of difference. My gripe with Entrust was that they changed the standard without telling anyone…and, when I politely fussed about it, their answer was that they are growing and, as a result, their service times have to get worse. Hugh reiterated that here. Frankly, I was very surprised and disappointed by that response. As someone else said in this thread, more business shouldn’t necessarily mean worse service…it means you need more people. Everyone understands growing pains, I don’t get the logic that bigger means worse service.
So, even though Equity Trust’s service may not be any better, it’s clear to me that I’m not a welcome customer at Entrust, so I need to get rid of that friction. Right now, they clearly don’t like to hear from me and, as a result, I don’t like to contact them…not a healthy situation.
Ron Guy
rguy24@comcast.net