Ethics and business in general - Posted by Charlie

Posted by Charlie on March 20, 2002 at 16:08:27:

Thank you, Jim. Sounds like the voice of reason to me.


Ethics and business in general - Posted by Charlie

Posted by Charlie on March 20, 2002 at 15:53:20:

Here is an issue that I would like to address to those of you with a lot of experience and success in this business.

A friend of mine was giving me advise the other day when he learned that I was starting my journey in the real estate business. As a very successful salesman, I didn’t take his words lightly, especially knowing the fundamental importance of the ability to sell in any kind of business. He advised me that I must learn to tell white lies in order to be successful in real estate or any business for that matter. These lies would be anything to put myself in a better position in negotiation, in dealing with clients, professionals, in winning others confidence, or whatever else you can think of. I have always valued honesty as a cornerstone to integrity, and I cringed to think of myself consciously saying untruths in situations that are not life or death.

Yet my friend is a successful businessman, and maintains that many times it is necessary to tell unverifiable falsehoods as long as it is in the best interest of creating a deal or winning over a client. In other words, the lie is a means–a means to an end that is in the best interest of both parties. As successful real estate investors/businessmen(or women), what are your thoughts about this?

Please keep in mind that he wasn’t talking about scamming anybody, but what is commonly referred to as bullsh***ing.

Re: Ethics and business in general - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on March 21, 2002 at 08:25:00:

It just occurred to me, he isn’t a real estate salesman is he?

He sounds like practically every real estate salesman I ever dealt with. Long on bullsh*t and manipulation, short on facts and service.

That’s why I don’t like real estate agents and refuse to deal with them if I can help it. All they do is gum things up.

If I could ever find an honest helpful one I would love to give him commissions on 10 deals a year but it isn’t going to happen. They would sooner scam somebody once then look for another sucker rather than genuinely help someone and collect commission check after commission check.

Incidentaly now that he has told you what he is, I hope you know better than to ever do business with this bum.

He’s full of it. But he already told you that. - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on March 21, 2002 at 08:14:47:

Talk about bad advice! That’s another one of those myths that broke people believe, people who know nothing about business but think they do.

I can’t believe your friend is a successful businessman. You say he is in sales. I guess he doesn’t count on much repeat business.

The secret of success in the real estate investing business is that you are using other people’s money. If you had to save up to buy real estate for cash you couldn’t do it.

The more people trust you, the more successful you can become. This means being trustworthy - that is the easy way to do it. There are cases where phonies have bamboozled the banks and other investors, sometimes for years, but it is very rare for someone to succeed this way for long. It is way easier and more profitable to be honest.

Having said that, a lot depends on your definition of a little white lie. If you tell someone you like his tie, in order to be friendly, when in fact you hate his tie, you aren’t likely to get in trouble. But if you deceive someone about some important fact, they will sure find it out, and your credibility will be shot with that person, and with everyone they know. YOu will lose more deals than you will make.

But as I pointed out before, this doesn’t count if you don’t care about repeat business. If you are in a big enough market where you can write off repeat customers (plus all their friends and relatives) and never have to deal with the same bank twice maybe you can get away with it , for a while.

Re: Ethics and business in general - Posted by JoeS

Posted by JoeS on March 20, 2002 at 20:20:51:

Honesty will build you a reputation that you will be proud of, and an attitude like dexavious, if he/she meant it, is what is giving this great business black eyes!

Re: Ethics and business in general - Posted by dexavious

Posted by dexavious on March 20, 2002 at 19:10:47:

fu*k ethics,

go make that dollar!!!


Re: Ethics and business in general - Posted by Brad Crouch

Posted by Brad Crouch on March 20, 2002 at 18:06:37:


Read the “Four simple rules” article in the “Money Making Ideas” section, by Jim Piper. This will answer your question quite well.

Here’s the link:


Re: Ethics and business in general - Posted by Tim Fierro (Tacoma, WA)

Posted by Tim Fierro (Tacoma, WA) on March 20, 2002 at 16:54:03:

Bullsh***ing could be labeled Puffing.

This house is the most beautiful house I have ever seen.

Wow, noboby has a yard like yours.

I’ll bet they don’t make houses like this anymore.

I have friends that would kill to get in a place like this.

That roof could last another 30 years.

I am not sure if I saw that stain on the carpert or not, I don’t remember.

There are probably a 1,000 people trying to find a place like yours.

Be honest, as Jim says, it is the best way.

Sounds to me like he was doing this to you - Posted by Jim FL

Posted by Jim FL on March 20, 2002 at 16:03:57:

While your friend may be a successful business salesperson, it seems he may have been feeding you a line.
Sure, this may “Work for him”, but to be frank, being honest in this business is what will keep you around for a long time to come.

When you are dealing with a truly motivated seller, and you see a solution to their problem that will make you some money, why be anything but honest?
I see no reason what-so-ever to tell any lie, no matter how small.
Just offer solutions to sellers, don’t be attached to the outcome, and perform according to your obligations and you will be more successful than most, if not all.

There are ways to win over clients without telling lies.
Just learn to be a good listener, problem solver, and generally a nice somewhat sympathetic person and your business will thrive.

Good luck,
Jim FL

I’ll go with what you say, JoeS. Thanx. - Posted by charlie

Posted by charlie on March 20, 2002 at 21:44:59:


hehehe i should write some of those down… nt - Posted by Ian(Honolulu)

Posted by Ian(Honolulu) on March 20, 2002 at 17:25:42: