Father/Dauther on Title - Father POA Girlfriend - Posted by James - Michigan Investor

Posted by IB (NJ) on January 14, 2008 at 20:11:51:

Yeah I had my minimum wage deal for the decade last year. That’s the last thing I need right now.

Yeah I’ve seen the innocence project AND my older Brother. The truth is the majority of those in prison have done dirt. Maybe not the dirt they’re in for, but dirt nonetheless. Find me the straight and narrow person who has never been in prison or trouble with the law suddenly in jail for murder and proclaiming his innocence and I’ll go to bat for him. Outside of that I’ll let the innocence project do their jobs and I’ll do mine. I think in this case I’d bet my money on the character of the daughter as opposed to the Father.

Do rolling stones even recognize state lines when they lay their hats?

Father/Dauther on Title - Father POA Girlfriend - Posted by James - Michigan Investor

Posted by James - Michigan Investor on January 13, 2008 at 10:39:06:

Just wanted to check here first before I give legal advice on this property. (for the lawyers here)

Anyway, father and daughter are on title. The father is in prison, not getting out anytime soon.
Property will be vacant (family member moving out - non-rental). The daughter is a tenant of mine
in one of my properties and doesn’t want this girlfriend of dad to rent out the property (which is what she wants to do).
POA will NOT be revoked. Tenant is moving by Jan 30. I told the daughter to secure the property, send registered
letter, and change locks.

Give me some idears CREonline. I need a better solution.
I’m afraid the POA girlfriend will put a tenatn in and it will be the daughter paying for eviction.

Michigan Investor

Re: Father/Dauther on Title - Fathe - Posted by James - Michigna Investor

Posted by James - Michigna Investor on January 14, 2008 at 11:41:11:

Oh boy. This is bigger that I first thought. Figured I could find a way to get the POA limited or something.
The father ISN’T going to revoke POA either.

The reason for me getting involved: Helping out one of my tenants. They are good people who don’t know
the legal system and/or property issues. We talked about me purchasing the house as well, so that’s some interest of mine too.

It’s not a great deal, but the house is owned free and clear and would rent out ok for the location. It just
can’t sit vacant and I’m trying to get this worked out for them ASAP.

I will push for voiding POA though…however unlikely.

Thanks for the input, I’ll keep you folks posted. :slight_smile:


How is Title held - Posted by Rich-CA

Posted by Rich-CA on January 14, 2008 at 10:56:52:

Is Title held as “Tenants In Common”? If so, the daughter can pursue a partition of the property which would allow her to sell her part of the property. What I do not know is if the partition can specify which parts of the house belong to which person, but if it does, she can make it very difficult for the girlfriend as the GF has no rights to rent out the property without the daughter’s approval and the daughter can secure her part of the property from intrusion by the GF or the GF tenant, including building walls between the parts. if she makes it hard enough, the GF will be effectively powerless.

Re: Father/Dauther on Title - Father POA - Posted by IB (NJ)

Posted by IB (NJ) on January 13, 2008 at 12:07:17:

Unless you can get the Father to quit claim his interest to the daughter OR revoke the POA, you have to deal with both of them.

I’m with Kristine here and wonder what is your interest here? Are you trying to buy the property or just trying to advise them?

Re: Father/Dauther on Title - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on January 13, 2008 at 10:51:16:

The daughter owns half. The father owns half, with the girlfriend
acting on his behalf (we hope). The daughter doesn’t have any more
rights than the girlfriend and vice versa. The daughter and the father/
poa girlfriend are both entitled to rents.

Why get involved here? I suggest that you do not suggest to the
daughter that she do anything so aggressive as cut off the father/
girlfriend. IMO her choices are to get an agreement with the girlfriend
about rental income or to buy her out…or the father can buy her

Again, what’s your interest in getting involved here? Kristine

Re: Father/Dauther on Title - Fathe - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on January 14, 2008 at 13:17:39:

James: something isn’t right here. You say your interest is in helping
your tenant and that your concern is that the property can’t remain
vacant? Why?

Also you previously posted that your tenant was concerned that the GF
with POA will put a tenant in the property. So it’s not going to be
vacant anyway.

You can’t revoke the POA–only the parties involved can. Neither you
nor the daughter are one of those parties. So, are you thinking of
talking one of the parties into cancelling/revoking the POA? And then
what? The father still owns half and could pursue his interest in the
rental income.

C’mon, tell us the real story about why you are getting involved here.

Voiding POA… not going to happen - Posted by JT-IN

Posted by JT-IN on January 14, 2008 at 11:55:13:


The Father granted the POA to the GF, and isn’t going to recind it… so that is about as far as it goes. He must want the GF representing his business interests while he is incarcerated. Plain and simple.

Who do you think you are to attempt to get the POA of another invalidated…? You are medling in an area
that is not your concern or biz, if you ask me. You are about to, or have already, stepped over the line of practicing law here.

Your tenant has a remedy here, it is Partition of Ownership. The other solution is for you to step into the tenants shoes, as an arms length owner… then proceed with a partition. Not much else, as it appears.


held - Posted by Nike

Posted by Nike on January 16, 2008 at 06:47:51:

Partition is also available if title held as joint tenants.

Patition good… - Posted by JT-IN

Posted by JT-IN on January 14, 2008 at 11:32:29:

Building walls, Bad…

If the GF would happen to rent out the property again, and the daughter did pursue the partition sale, the court would give her credit for 1/2 of all rents, provided that she asked for such in the suit. This would apply to past rents and any agreement that the GF makes forward. Also, supposing the GF occupied the property and did not rent it to a third party, then the daughter would be in line for reimbursement of 1/2 of FMV rents. I have seen this exact case several times (TIC owners at odds) and this is how it played out both times…

I certainly wouldn’t recommend the wall idea, because the daughter could then be construed as attempting to limit the use of the property and the wall being the wrong way to go about it… IMO.


Re: Father/Dauther on Title - Fathe - Posted by James - Michigan investor

Posted by James - Michigan investor on January 14, 2008 at 17:46:07:


The reason the property cannot be vacant is two-fold.
a.) Undesirable location…people are going to break in/windows etc. if it sits vacant for more than two
weeks. It is cold here now, so that does help.
b.) ONCE its vacated by current tenant (Jan 30), the POA GF will be putting another tenant in to supliment
her drug activity, ie, crack.
This would then make it Daughters responsibility to kick the tenant out and/or take POA GF to court over rental income.
I’m sure the GF will do whatever she can to get the very best tenants…

The Daughter wants control of who is in the property so they will be responsible…not saying the GF will
put someone in that won’t be, the chances are less than optimal.

The REAL reason I’m getting involved: The Sex. It’s fantastic! /sarcasm No really, I want to help
her the best I can and if there’s money to be made along the way, help her there too. I don’t
even know what the house is worth or anything. Can’t be much
per it’s location.

There’s nothing sneaky going on here. I wonder what I said to make you think that. :stuck_out_tongue:


Re: Patition good… - Posted by Rich-CA

Posted by Rich-CA on January 14, 2008 at 13:25:00:

Good fences make good neighbors. But realistically, the wall would ruin the property and should only be attempted if specific areas of the building were assigned to each partition and not if it remained an undivided interest. I would also only approach this if I could not find a reasonable price for the partition to sell at, thus limiting the ability of the other partition owner to rent out the entire structure and not just their portion be removing access to, say, the kitchen and one bathroom that the judge gave to the daughter. Of course, there would be easement rights to get to the bathroom across from the father’s living room. In any case, the original post was concerned about the daughter being stuck with eviction costs if the GF stuck a tenant in there and had no funds to follow through getting them out if the don’t pay rent.

Re: Father/Dauther on Title - Fathe - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on January 14, 2008 at 18:00:34:

Didn’t think anything sneaky was going on. Just couldn’t (and can’t)
figure out what your involvement is here. Doesn’t add up.

Also, I’m pretty skeptical about family member’s opinions of Dad’s
girlfriends. If the daughter is so trustworthy, then why did the Dad go
with the girlfriend. I’m afraid I’m experienced on this matter both in
REI and my own family. I stopped referring to my Dad’s wives as
stepmothers after marriage number 3. Things have slowed down. I
think he is still with number 5.:slight_smile: Kristine

Re: Father/Dauther on Title - Fathe - Posted by IB (NJ)

Posted by IB (NJ) on January 14, 2008 at 18:48:47:

Kristine are we Brother and Sister?..no wait my Dad is on number 4. lol - But out of respect (and love) I still call them all Stepmom.

But honestly, you’ve never helped someone out in real estate just because?

Yeah the Dad went with the GF but he’s in jail. What’s that tell you about HIS character AND judgment? Either way, if I was James, I’d just give a little advice and stay out of the way on this one.

Reminds me of something that fell in my lap today. A three family that has a delinquent tax lien attached. I reached out to the husband whose on the deed with his wife. He hasn’t kept up much with the property in the last couple of years. Thought the wife went back to the Jamaica and that her daughter (not his) was taking care of the property. He calls me today angrily after speaking with the daughter who told him that the wife sold her the property and she took a $150k loan out against it. He was upset that all this was done without his consent. I told him I would visit the courthouse and see what happened (I was going down there anyway and he lives all the way out in PA).

Here’s the kicker: the wife somehow got a POA as his attorney-in-fact. She then sells the property to the daughter for $340k. The daughter takes aa $150k loan out AND a $235k mortgage to buy and fix up the property (she didn’t fix a thing as the place is a dump). I checked the alleged signature of the husband’s POA against a mortgage he took out against the house a while back. They’re not even close to matching. All hell’s going to break loose tomorrow when I tell him. Didn’t want to tell him tonight as I’m sure his 70 yr. old heart won’t be able to last the night thinking about it (seriously). Lawyer notarized the POA so this should be interesting.


Re: Father/Dauther on Title - Fathe - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on January 14, 2008 at 19:29:05:

Truth is I do a lot of stuff in RE just because. I’m working the same
deal James is talking about, only in central CA. 7 brothers and sisters
whose dad died without a will. It’s the brother in jail that deals with
the paperwork, taxes, etc. Even though the oldest sister has been
living there rent free for two years. There’s the POA that he gave to
youngest sister. There’s the seventh, youngest brother that none of
them acknowledge because he is the son of the father’s girlfriend. I so
don’t want this house and there is little money, if any to be made.
(Junker in the worst part of town.) I am no stranger to this scene.

Be careful of judging the character of those in prison. Haven’t you
seen the Innocence Project yet?

I don’t think we are related because my father (and my uncles) limited
their seeding ground to Michigan and Canada.