Flippin' isn't easy! (Long post) - Posted by Bill Scott

import · October 30, 2000, 4:00pm

Re: Your Not going to like this… - Posted by AnnNC

Posted by AnnNC on October 30, 2000 at 17:00:19:

Yes, it’s easy to talk yourself out of things. And mentality is important.
I live in a house, with lots of land and trees.
Bear with me–it’s an anology.
First year, I’m too busy with my job (now former)too busy to notice the
trees. Second year, I notice pecans in the barn, along with other old stuff.,
I see that I have pecan trees, but, apparently, mine do not bear nuts.(I’m not from around here!)3rd year, I notice that I have 3 pecan trees, but, that all the nuts are gone from those dang squirrels stealing them! Just look at them! Up and down running as fast as they can! I’ve been robbed!
They work so fast and there are so many, well, there they go again. Too bad, none for me, darnit!
I can see them from my window-there’s nothing left!
I give up! 4th year, I actually walk out under the
trees…what’s this? What are these things under my feet? I collect 100’s of pecans, good ones, have enough to give to a friend. I plan that next year I will
collect them before the leaves fall and they are all hidden. That would be easy! Next year comes, and I discover that they don’t even really get going before the leaves fall, so I’ll always have to walk out in ankle-deep leaves and find them with my feet.
Very late in the season,someitme in December or January, I tie a rope around a small rock and lasso a branch, pull on the rope and shake off some more pecans.
Moral 1: things look different from inside your window than they do when you go out and walk around and learn
what is really going on.
Moral 2: Even fast squirrels leave some things behind.
Ann

import · October 30, 2000, 6:17am

I’m with Dave on this one. - Posted by steph in tex

Posted by steph in tex on October 30, 2000 at 07:17:24:

Bill,

Please take a moment to tell us about your sucesses.
This can insire and motivate newbies in ways you may not have imagined.

I think it’s important to keep the balance. Sure, it may not be easy, but if that is where your focus is,
it will be harder than if you’re someone with a mental attitude such as Dave’s.

The mind is a powerful tool. If you beleive it’s too difficult, it will be. The beauty of that is, if you believe you can find the deals, you will.

Good luck

steph in tex

import · October 29, 2000, 2:52pm

Re: Your Not going to like this… - Posted by Bill Scott

Posted by Bill Scott on October 29, 2000 at 15:52:02:

I can’t say that I do or don’t like this. You read some things into the post that weren’t there. I looked at a number of other properties and just used these three as illustrative of the process because they were the closest to possibly being deals. The fact is that I hang out with a number of investors and usually leave the realtors alone. I also can find (and have) properties that can be flipped or retailed–I’m working on a three family right now. But, as I mentioned above, too many of you folks act like you can wander down any old street and find a deal. It doesn’t work like that and you folks are doing a disservice to the newbies on the board. They are going to have to do some serious hunting, they are going to have to get to know what will and won’t sell in the local market.

import · October 29, 2000, 2:11pm

Re: Your Not going to like this… - Posted by MikeRoadRunnerRomeo

Posted by MikeRoadRunnerRomeo on October 29, 2000 at 15:11:47:

David’s right on the money. When you decide a situation is hopeless you don’t put in the extra “work” and brain power needed to close the deal. Life is sometimes difficult but when you realize that, your next step is finding answers to “difficult” situations. We’re all students here…at least we all should be. Amen… beep beep…

import · October 29, 2000, 2:56pm

Re: Flippin’ isn’t easy! (Long post) - Posted by Bill Scott

Posted by Bill Scott on October 29, 2000 at 15:56:13:

IMO–you have it backward Tarheel. I’ve seen guys go out and tie up properties, market the heck out of 'em and they can’t sell 'em or buy them. It doesn’t take but a couple of deals like that and the realtors avoid you like the plague, and the word gets around town about you. You’d better make sure you can sell before you put the place under contract!

import · October 29, 2000, 3:04pm

Re: Flippin’ isn’t easy! (Not like this it ain’t) - Posted by Bill Scott

Posted by Bill Scott on October 29, 2000 at 16:04:18:

You’re right Jim—but has anybody else bothered to tell the newbies on the board this info? Nope! So, I decided to do so and I’m getting scorched pretty good for doing so.

Only one of the properties was in a war zone. I’m having to go farther afield than my usual territory to find flips and I hadn’t been in this area of the neigboring town. So, I was exploring new territory on this one and the one in the black neighborhood.

I know the deals are out there and I’m not worried about finding them. I’ve done it before for clients and for myself—I was just trying to interject a cautionary note into the increasing number of posts on how easy and lucrative flipping is. It is–but it takes work. Some of these wholesalers do six deals one month, and only find one the next month–that’s the nature of the business. I just don’t see many folks telling the newbies about this.

BTW—I contacted three dealers about both of these properties and nobody wanted to touch these deals! So yes, I have contacted the retailers previously and know several of them.

import · October 31, 2000, 3:12am

Re: As a newbie who is also BLACK… - Posted by Bill Scott

Posted by Bill Scott on October 31, 2000 at 04:12:26:

You need to come back to earth and real life. It’s all well and good to say ‘color doesn’t matter’—the truth is, it does. As an investor, you’d better figure that out real quick or you’re going to wind up with some real expensive seminars on the subject. IMO–that’s the saddest part about the subject of race relations, i.e. that no one can talk about the truth without being excoriated. Everybody wants to live in a fantasy land where all is well and everyone is color blind–but that’s not reality.

BTW–I’m not prejudiced, and if you want to sit down for cup of coffee some time, I’ll buy. I’ll also be happy to put you on the trail of some homes if you live around my area!

import · October 30, 2000, 7:19am

Re: Flippin’ isn’t easy! (Long post) - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on October 30, 2000 at 08:19:31:

Why don’t you try to get this property yourself instead of just looking for a commission off it? You don’t need a credit line to always do a deal. What is the property worth? Could you split the lot and sell the one with the 4 unit for the $150k and keep the vacant lot for yourself or sell separately for a nice profit? Why is the landlord selling? How motivated is he?

import · October 30, 2000, 6:31am

AHAH! That’s the problem! - Posted by steph in tex

Posted by steph in tex on October 30, 2000 at 07:31:29:

You’re still thinking like a realtor!

…“I’m working on selling these for a pretty decent commission”…

Glad your here! You’ll be outside the box in no time.

steph in tex

import · October 30, 2000, 1:26pm

Re: Is your glass half empty or half full? - Posted by Scott (tx)

Posted by Scott (tx) on October 30, 2000 at 14:26:53:

I agree with Bill. Seems like most people are missing his point entirely. Many of the so-called gurus portray flipping as very easy for the average person to not only learn but make money in. Let’s stop splitting hairs here - just because they don’t use the word ‘easy’ doesn’t mean that the implication isn’t there.
Real life example - I just received a mailer from one of the gurus pitching an all day seminar on flipping. Yes, you pay $99.00, and basically get upsold on a package costing a couple thousand dollars at the ‘seminar’. We’ve all been there.
The teaser mailer uses phrases like ‘easy-to-do techniques’, ‘exceed your former salary with less work and less stress’, ‘make a profit quickly’…
Come on now folks. Let’s be honest - it takes hard work and lots of effort. But let’s also not deny that the ‘newbies’ are getting a lot of their impressions from advertising copy being used to sell the gurus courses.

import · October 29, 2000, 3:51pm

I’m in The MIddle Here - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on October 29, 2000 at 16:51:11:

Bill,

There are times when things become slow and deals don’t happen. Like any business there are ups and downs. But you are generalizing too much here. Hey its’ not always easy to find a decent deal, but without David’s attitude the slow periods will drag on longer.

In this business you’ve got to believe that there is a deal just around every corner. I have always liked David’s attitude towards this business in that he never says die. He is always looking for a way to make a deal work and ultimately make a profit.

From your original post, it makes it sound to the new folks that “hey why try, there are no deals out there.”

import · October 29, 2000, 4:13pm

Re: Flippin’ isn’t easy! (Long post) - Posted by tarheelt

Posted by tarheelt on October 29, 2000 at 17:13:15:

Bill, First of all I could care less what realtors think about me. After three years, I haven’t had even one deal through a realtor. You are thinking too conventionally. Yes some deals work and some don’t, but if you worry about failing then you won’t make a dime. And the very best way to do a deal is to get a buyer before you buy because you have almost nothing to lose. And do not be afraid to lose!!! Otherwise you will never never win!!! TarheelT

import · October 30, 2000, 1:33pm

Re: Flippin’ isn’t easy! (Not like this it ain’t) - Posted by scott (tx)

Posted by scott (tx) on October 30, 2000 at 14:33:38:

Bill, I for one didn’t appreciate some of the comments made about your post. I believe what you said was misinterpreted to a large degree. I’m glad you made an honest post about effort - instead of blowing sunshine…well you know the rest.
I had some comments related to how ‘newbies’ form those opinions, see my other post for some real world examples.
Thanks again.

import · October 31, 2000, 5:48am

NO, No, no!!! - Posted by George(OH)

Posted by George(OH) on October 31, 2000 at 06:48:59:

First of all, being a young black male, I understand perfectly that race DOES matter, especially in the REI game. I was fortunate that in the two flip deals I’ve done, I haven’t had any problems, but I’m aware of the possibility that there COULD be. However, I approach each situation with an open mind, and I do not PRE-JUDGE anyone. Can you imagine the paralyzing effect that would have on me with regard to approaching sellers?

You’re response: “NO ONE can talk about the truth…”, “EVERYBODY wants to live in a fantasy land…” seems to be talking about society in general.

Well, I was not responding about society at large. I was reacting specifically to YOUR comments, in which you say “in your area it is hard to find intact black families with good credit willing to buy in all black neighborhoods”.

The problem I have with that statement is that it seemed as though you were LIMITING your potential buyers to ONLY blacks, as though non-blacks would not want to buy in that area.

I’m also a realist, and I realize that very well could be the case. But if you formulate this opinion without actually TRYING to market to non-blacks, well to me, that seems like prejudice.

Example: I’m having a REI party in a huge banguet room. There is a variety of REI occupations represented - attorneys, appraisers, investors, etc. What if I were to say “Gee, the seating is going to be messed up. I can’t find any Realtors who would want to sit at table #9 with those other Realtors”.

I’d be assuming that non-Realtors would not want to sit with the Realtors. I’d also be acting like a jerk.

You say you’re not racist. This is a newsgroup, and with no way for us to truly tap into each others personality, I have to take your word for it.

Someone posted a little while ago that when we post, it’s not like face to face communication, where we can read facial expression, body language, voice intonation, etc. So it’s kinda hard to get the TRUE gist of posts sometimes.

With that in mind, by all means, I’m not suggesting not to talk about race IF it is pertinent to each individuals REI related posts. I think we all just need to try to express ourselves as clearly as possible to cut down on misunderstandings and having our thoughts misconstued.

God Bless,

George(OH)

import · October 30, 2000, 3:00am

Re: I’m in The MIddle Here - Posted by Bill Scott

Posted by Bill Scott on October 30, 2000 at 04:00:08:

Nah, I’m actually with you—there are deals out there. Just be careful of what you buy and where it is—not everything that is low priced is a good deal!