for Kaiser, quit beating around the bush. - Posted by Derek

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on December 11, 2000 at 12:03:43:

Here are my thoughts…

  1. The person doing the collecting is NOT a 3rd party. You BUY the lien which means you are a FIRST party. You certainly have the right to collect on your own debt without registering as a collection agency.

  2. Joe IS a 3rd party but he is not collecting any debts. He is selling information on how to buy debts.


for Kaiser, quit beating around the bush. - Posted by Derek

Posted by Derek on December 11, 2000 at 11:39:37:


According to RCW 19.16.100, any third party person collecting a debt is considered a collection agency,how can you advertise to sell your program in washington, when I pour out another $35.000.00 to become a collection agency?
I hope that is straight forward enough for you, but as I suspect you will have another excuse, rather than a solid answer for me. Good luck in your weak attempt to answer this question. Your lien program is a hoax, at least in the State of Washington. Should you not be able to answer my question, My next call will be to the Federal Trade Commission and The Better Buisness Bureau.


Good Grief! - Posted by Kate (VA)

Posted by Kate (VA) on December 12, 2000 at 08:47:38:

I see that you have purchased the John T. Reed ‘How To Act Like An Authority On Information You’ve Never Researched And Be Obnoxious In The Process’ Course. This is a place for people to build each other up, get ideas and advice, and speak to other people that have similar goals. I for one am grateful for the information I can obtain here - FOR FREE - and if you are only visiting this forum to stir up s— and waste our time, please don’t come back. Maybe if you spent more time figuring out how these ideas can work for you and less time arguing why they won’t , you might actually acheive some success. Until then, you are a schmuck with a big mouth.

Warmest Wishes of the Season,

For Derek . . . - Posted by JoeKaiser

Posted by JoeKaiser on December 11, 2000 at 19:33:21:


Please don’t order any of my courses. They presume you have at least some “people skills.” I’ve got to tell you guy, you don’t.

If you can’t even ask a simple question here without sounding like a nutcase and making goofball threats (?!?!), how can you expect any sort of success in the real world? Answer, you can’t. You’ve first got to learn to get along with people, Derek, if you hope to be successful at anything, much less a people business like real estate investing.

You would call the better business bureau or the FTC and complain about what? That I sell a course and, although you’ve never seen it, you think there might be something wrong with it? I doubt they’d put that at the top of their list of things to look at today, pal.

Still, to answer your question . . .

We buy accounts from contractors, putting ourselves into their shoes and becoming principals in the transaction. As such, we are every bit as entitled to collect on the debt as was the original creditor. There is no “3rd party collections” involved.

We don’t “get around” anything, and our intent is not to do so. The statute, frankly, simply doesn’t apply here.


Even if that were true, which it isn’t… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on December 11, 2000 at 17:40:18:

all you have to do is retain a law firm to collect it on your behalf and pay them 1/3 of what they recover.
Since you are buying at a big discount, even with paying out a third, there should be plenty of room for profit.

If your hung up on this… - Posted by ScottS

Posted by ScottS on December 11, 2000 at 14:08:57:

You’re gonna take a beating in the liens and judgement collection world.

You know sometimes it’s really hard to find these people. You think you’re gonna need a “Private I” badge also? I suggest you slow down an bit and learn your approach. (And a few manners about being a hot head)

As has been said already,When the leinholder assigns you the lien you are now a principle which gives you the right to collect. Just be sure you are using fair collection practices because as Joe told me once “debtors have rights too”.

Good luck in your efforts.


Get a Grip… - Posted by J.P. Vaughan

Posted by J.P. Vaughan on December 11, 2000 at 13:52:05:

I can’t imagine why Joe would even consider answering
your question, given your downright nastiness. But I’ll
answer it.

That statute does NOT apply because Joe is NOT a third
party. He is a PRINCIPAL in the transaction.

If you’re looking for a fight, go somewhere else.

for Kaiser, quit beating around the bush. - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on December 11, 2000 at 13:43:58:

What does being a 3rd party collecting a debt on behalf of another have to do with selling information on how to buy bad debts and collect on them for your own account?

I guess if the course was be offered as, “Hey, just buy my course and learn how to buy bad debts then call me after you buy it and I will collect on it for you”, then something like that would be acting as a 3rd party!

I don’t know what RCW 19.16.100 says, but my guess is that you are misinterpreting this incorrectly by confusing becoming a 3rd party vs. a first party acting on behalf of one’s own account.

If Joe was doing something wrong don’t you think he would have been successfully sued by a creditor over this already???

By the way, calling the better business bureau is worthless. They only send out a copy of your complaint and if the complaint is responded to the matter is closed and does not go against you which even if it did would only go against you as having a complaint filed against you. They don’t release specific details about their complaints. They mostly act as as a mediator to help resolve complaints, that’s it! So calling them is a waste of time!

Calling the FTC is a waste of time also since they don’t investigate single complaints. They only investigate when they receive numerous complaints.

Re: for Kaiser, quit beating around the bush. - Posted by JD

Posted by JD on December 11, 2000 at 13:34:51:

I also agree with Mark. As long as you are buying the lien, you can collect on it yourself. However I believe that JK advises getting an option to purchase a lien. I can imagine a circumstance where a pattern of options from the same creditor could be interpreted by the Courts to be a means to circumvent the collection agency licencing requirement, but IMHO it would have to be an extensive pattern.

Re: for Kaiser, quit beating around the bush. - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on December 11, 2000 at 13:01:43:

I agree with Mark below. Joe is buying the lien or judgement. He now owns the lien or judgement. At this point he is not a collection agent, he actually owns the lien and is now trying to collect on it.

This stuff about calling the FTC and BBB shouldn’t be your goal. Your goal should be to find the way Joe’s system will work in your market.