Good and Bad - Posted by Jerry Martin NC

Posted by Berni on May 22, 2003 at 12:39:23:

Earl, thank you very much for your great advice. Anymore extra advices are much appreciated. Thanks again!

Good and Bad - Posted by Jerry Martin NC

Posted by Jerry Martin NC on May 08, 2003 at 05:57:31:

I am just curious as to who has had good or bad experiences with the Carleton Sheets course. I have had some good experiences with it and wanted to share some of the things I have been able to accomplish and if some have had bad experiences maybe I could help.

Re: Good and Bad - Posted by ALLEN SHAW-NC

Posted by ALLEN SHAW-NC on May 13, 2003 at 12:49:41:

Jerry, you know me, I’ve came to visit you a couple of times. I have owned the Carleton Sheets course since February, 2002. It is my own fault that it’s not worked for me because other than studying & studying, I haven’t taken any action yet. Even though I believe it will work. I’ve seen Jerry Martin’s properties and I’ve interacted with Clair McManigal on some investment opportunities I alerted him too. I believe Jerry and Clair’s claims about the success with Carleton’s course and I’ve seen Jerry’s first hand. My problem is getting started. Plus, I’ve been called into ministry and I’ve been pre-occuppied with bible studies. God comes first before profit. Anyway, I’ve been released now to give more attention to REI but I will have to start out slow until I get some cash reserves built up,or a line of credit. I’ve placed my first ad in our local penny saver that has proven to generate calls for Jerry and I’m sure it will do the same for me. Right now all I can say is. The good is, I’ve got to witness the results of Carleton’s course through two Christian men who have befriend me and offered to help me. The bad news is that I had a busy lifestyle, maybe a little prejidice due to past get rich quick schemes and just plain procrastination. The new good news is, I’m finally started and ready to roll. Guess what, I have a friend in Jerry there to offer assistance. Ain’t God good!

Re: Good and Bad - Posted by Ed V

Posted by Ed V on May 10, 2003 at 23:38:39:

I’ve had an incredibly bad experience with it. I bought it I think about 3 or 4 years ago and didn’t touch it! Fortunately I was able to buy my first property with very little of my own money by using all the snippets of information I got by watching all those info-mercials. I am however getting in to it now, so hopefully soon I will be able to report a better outcome. I’ve always wanted to invest more in property, and fortunately, after reading some good books and listening to some good motivational tapes, my reality is expanding and I’m way more mentally set to do this. Unless you have a millionaire/investor mind why would anything in your life change.

Jerry, here’s one for ya- - Posted by Earl

Posted by Earl on May 10, 2003 at 06:48:42:

Jerry, thanks for your post. Here’s a ‘bad’ for you to think about. And I’ve discussed this ‘bad’ on the website before and nobody here has answered this concern of mine.

Overall I’ve used the Sheets course and I think it is good. The one complaint I have with it is I question where the investers claim to get the huge cash flows that they say they do. I’ll vouch for just about every other part of the course - buying no money down with (small) positive cash flow, cash back at closing, etc. - I’ve done a little of all of that.

But obviously any smart person on this website will tell you buying no money down is a loaded gun - you have to be very, very VERY careful doing that.

I’ve never understood the students’ claims of the large cash flows, and I suspect a some slick marketing that may not be honest. For example, are the students doing something else to get that ‘monthly spendable cash’ from some other type of investing that Sheets never mentions in his infomercial, such as wholesaling or rehabbing as well? Maybe students are counting money from some other RE source such as refinancing or tax refunds as part of their ‘spendable cash’ and not saying that?

But I worry that the claim of such large cash flows can be very misleading and dangerous to unsuspecting newbies.

I’m a buy-and-hold part-time REI - I’ve done Sheets for 6 years now and allowed my investments to grow slowly, with plenty of backup and emergency plans for rainy days when cash flow comes short - and often it does. The pros here will tell you REI is a great plan, but not a get-rich-quick scheme.

Jerry, any response?

Re: Good and Bad - Posted by RichV(FL)

Posted by RichV(FL) on May 08, 2003 at 07:49:12:

Hey Jerry,

I think the CS course is a very good head start for people that need to get thier feet wet in REI.

With all creative real estate ideas the key is finding motivated sellers and applying certian methods that fit the situation you and they are in.

To many people try to use the Sheets course and others as a cook book, rather than using the techniques as guidelines and being creative.



Re: Good and Bad - Posted by LaNell Nelkin

Posted by LaNell Nelkin on July 20, 2003 at 22:56:08:

I just saw the infomercial this morning and wanted to get more info before ordering it. How much does the course cost? They are advertising it as being $10 for a 30 day trial. Is it really worth taking the time, and how much time does it take a week?

Re: Good and Bad - Posted by Jerry Martin NC

Posted by Jerry Martin NC on May 15, 2003 at 05:34:33:

Allen you have taken the first step and things will fall into place for you if you work at it. The course is a good guideline and will show you how to get started. From there you will be able to adjust you investment style to fit you. Good luck and God bless.

Re: Jerry, here’s one for ya- - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on May 10, 2003 at 22:47:20:


I think you are propbably partially correct. It is interesting that the phrases used by Sheets are what they are. I’ll bet part of wht they are including is the after-tax cash flow. I suspect that you are right about the refinancings and resales also.

One thing to realize however, is that the amount of positive cash flow will vary dramatically with location in the country, market value of the properties concerned, whether a person has bought below market value, and the terms of any financing used to buy the property. Bet the right numbers on a couple of these things and you can get very good cash flow.

For instance, in the Oklahoma City area where I have some of my rental properties, it is possible to get $675 a month rent for three-bedroom houses rented out under the section 8 governmental housing assestance program (HAP). I know this is so, as I am getting this. The property is probably worth about $35-40K, according to the realtor dot com listings of houses for sale. Now, this was not a no or low down deal for me, it was a 100% down deal. But, my total investment is about $22,000 or less. So the return would be good, even if I did have a loan for my purchase price.

I recently talked to an investor who lives in Grady County, OK< just SW of Oklahoma County, where Oklahoma City is. He told me that he knows a public school principal who bought a property for $26K in the NW sector of Oklahoma City and has it rented out at $675 a month on section 8.

The way to get better cash flow is: invest in particular parts of the nation where the retio of rents to propery values is high. Typically these are going to be lower-cost areas, not NYC, San Fran Bay Area, CT, MA, etc. Then, even in the area, buy lower-end properties. If you can, but at below market value. Find out if Section 8 rents are higher than market rents, as they seem to be in the Oklahoma City area, and other arease, as reported by others on this formum.

Good InvestingRon Starr**

Ron, what made you look at OKC? - Posted by Earl

Posted by Earl on May 12, 2003 at 08:02:26:

Ron if you don’t mind, some more questions about my discussion of investing out of state - what did you see about that market in OKC in particular as opposed to anywhere else? As I recall you do tax sales. What kinds of things did you see that appeared better there than any other place? What types of things can one do long distance to save time and to get to know an out of state area better? For example, do you use the Internet? Specific websites? local bird-dogs?

I assume you want to look pretty close at the local economy before investing there. What types of local market research do you do long distance if any, for example, study local jobs, employment rates, the local economy. Do you look at local newspapers online, chamber of commerce websites, local tax assessor websites, etc. anything like that?

As usual, thanks in advance-

Do you keep a car back there? - Posted by randyOH

Posted by randyOH on May 11, 2003 at 12:50:59:

How do you get around when you are in OK? Do you keep a car back there? If so, where do you park it? Or do you just rent cars? If so, have you figured out any good deals?

I do the same thing you do. I live in CA and invest in OH. I have just been renting cars, very expensive. But I am planning to keep a car back there. It will cost me about $100 per month to park it at the airport.

So I was wondering how you do it in OK. I am looking for ideas on how to keep the cost down.

Thanks in advance,

And Ron, here’s one for you- - Posted by Earl

Posted by Earl on May 11, 2003 at 06:02:20:

Ron, thanks for your excellent post - If you remember, you and I have discussed this same subject on this website before.

I agree completely that Sheets works better in some parts of the country than others. I know - I’ve used it in at least 4 different states with widely varying degrees of success. And some Sheets investors will tell you ‘This stuff is easy!’, while others claim it is a scam.

I was also intrigued by your comment to ‘invest in other parts of the country.’ I bet you would agree that that (Investing out of state) is a science in itself - and maybe that itself is worthy of some course or bestselling book by some wise guru on this website. There could be lots of tips, advice, pitfalls to avoid, etc. one can learn from a more experienced investor about investing far from home.

Sheets says invest close to home when you’re starting out, which is sound advice. Also maybe some niche people, such as wholesalers, l/o’s, can find enough business close to home. But take more experienced, larger investors, for example commercial property investors on Ray’s Commercial website, and I bet those people may make a science of searching around the country - using tools like the Internet, etc. to locate property far from home.

I attended the last CRE Online convention, and I was fascinated by the ‘national’ networking, how many people asked me to bird-dog for them in my neck of the woods, etc. Obviously experienced investors, who know how to develop contacts nationwide.

I believe just buying ‘elsewhere in the country’ should be thought of as a major REI subject in itself.

Best wishes - Earl

Apology: Sorry for typos in above… - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on May 10, 2003 at 22:51:02:

Sorry about the typographical errors in the above post. My Outlook Express is not working properly and I cannot go back and edit my posting.

Good InvestingRon Starr********

researching areas to invest - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on May 12, 2003 at 12:35:55:


As a former researcher who still does quite a bit of researching, I suppose you expect me to find the “best” places to invest by lots of analysis. Forgetit guy.

A little over five years ago, John Beck talked about tax certificates as ways to get properties in OK and TX at the local San Fran Bay Area real estate investor’s group. It sounded exciting so, instead of buying tax certificates, I went to a couple of tax sales in TX in early June, not getting anything, then spent about a week running around to see properties scheduled for tax resales in OK counties. I bought one house, in Grady County and spent some time at the Oklahoma County sale, which has a lot of properties. That was all I got that year. Since then I have returned three times and bought a total of seven properties, two in commanche county, four in Oklahoma County.

The next year I bought a house in Waco TX but it was redeemed. I don’t like losing my house that way. So I don’t buy in TX anymore, only in OK. Even there I have won the bid on three houses and they were redeemed before the deeds were issued, so I lost those.

I just go where the houses are. If I can buy them, I do. Then I go back and do it again.

The ratio of rents to property values is quite good in the area. One could buy market-value properties and get a positive cash flow.

It’s interesting to me that I, a research-kind of guy, do very little research. I just get a feeling that I can do ok in a location and do some simple checking. For instance, I don’t think I will be buying any houses in Altus, OK, as there are huge numbers of vacant houses there. Not a good rental market, in my view. How did I research it? I went to look a the properties scheduled for the tax resale and kept my eyes open as I drove around.

My guess is that most of the Midwest and Southeast USA is good for rental properties. So, what I find in OK you can probably find in several other states.

Good Investing********Ron Starr**********

Re: Do you keep a car back there? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on May 11, 2003 at 14:05:56:


I rent from the major car rental agencies. This year I considered renting from a lower-cost car rental agency in the OKC area. I see there is an “ugly duckling” company there. They have older used cars at a cheaper price. Because I want to pick up a car on Sunday, I figured they would not be open and went with the regular agencies.

In the past I have used enterprise, as their prices have been the best. This year I have reserved a car throught hotwire dot com and ended up with, surprise, Hertz. I think of them as the high cost leader, but they were cheapest for an economy car. I’m only back there one or two times a year, about two weeks or 17 days each time. I thought of having a second car there, but the cost is just too much.

If I were you I’d not park at the airport. Maybe rent a private garage on a busline from the airport. Of buy a property near the airpost and require the renters to allow your car to sit there.

Good Investing*********Ron Starr*********

I think you are wise and sensible… - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on May 11, 2003 at 11:51:00:


I think you are wise and sensible. I have thought about that buying far from home business. And I am trying to do so managing of properties in OK myself. And finding it a challenge that I may not be up to. So, if that book already exists, I’d sure like to read it.

I suspect that it not be a best-selling book. I think most investors do invest close to home. Perhaps for the institutional-type investors, knowing how to invest in different markets makes sense. But, I suspect they already study those topics in graduate business schools.

I wonder about people trying to “network” and buy good deals far from home. I sure wouldn’t recommend that.

Good InvestingRon Starr*

this gives me hope - Posted by lil_joy

Posted by lil_joy on May 14, 2003 at 04:33:53:

we are in Tulsa and just got the sheets program today. my bf has bought everything he’s ever owned with cash and my credit i fear is messed up for a very long time. If we gain nothing from this program than the ability to get a home of our own I’ll be happy. Apartment living sucks. That doesn’t mean that if we were able to make a healthy living by doing this i wouldn’t be pleased. I most certainly would!!!

Twice a year, wow. - Posted by randyOH

Posted by randyOH on May 11, 2003 at 20:33:48:

Don’t see how you can accomplish much just going back twice a year. I go back every two to three months and can’t do much.

Re: this gives me hope - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on May 14, 2003 at 07:04:04:

lil Joy–(OK)---------------

Check out the Tulsa County Treasurer’s tax resale on June 9th. You should be able to get the list of properties scheduled for sale at the treasurer’s office for free.

Good Investing*Ron Starr

Re: Twice a year, wow. - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on May 11, 2003 at 22:02:21:


Yes, I don’t do a lot. I buy one or two properties for less than 50% of market value.

There is no law that one has to do a lot of work and get extremely wealthy.

Good InvestingRon Starr******