I bought a condo in the LA area and ......... - Posted by James

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on August 22, 2003 at 09:32:07:

James–(CA)-------------

Yes, they will.

You have to understand that the escrow company has to protect the rights of all parties involved in a transaction. So when you sell a property, the escrow company will give you a form to fill out. It is called “statement of identity.” On it, you are asked to give information about yourself that will allow the company to check for liens against you and be sure that liens in the same name as you are not owed by you individually. For instance, I did a statewide seach in CA a few years ago for properties owned by “Ronald Starr.” There were 32 apparently different "Ronald Starr"s who owned property in the state. So, liens against some other Ronald Starr might appear to be against me. I would not want to pay off those liens when selling my property.

The questions on the “statement of identity” form include: social security number, whether you have useh some other name, places of residence–addresses–for past 10 years, marital status, where and when divorce was granted, etc.

You sound to me like you are very suspicious of what is happening here. I certain encourage skepticism. And I would never say “always trust title companies.” That would not be a good policy. However, the title company is trying to protect your interests as well as those of the lenders. By having it in the records that your wife renounces ownership of your property, it protects you from possible future problems.

I hope you never have to deal with divorce. However, it does happen with something like 1/2 of all marriages, as I understand it. So this document makes it clear at the time that it is recorded that you wife had no interest in the property. This could help you should you hit divorce row. Also, should you die at an early age, it will be clear in the records that the property was yours alone. So your will would control to whom the property goes, as you wish. That might be to your wife, but not necessarily. If it were thought to be community property or a joint tenancy, things might go differently. You do have a will, don’t you? When you own an asset as big as a home in Southern California, you certainly should have one, in my view.

I hope that as you understand better what is happening you can be less concerned about the actions of the company with which you are dealing. What is going on is normal business practice. And, as I said, is intended to protect you and others.

Good InvestingRon Starr**

I bought a condo in the LA area and … - Posted by James

Posted by James on August 19, 2003 at 20:31:22:

I bought a condo in the LA area and now I am refinencing it. When I bought it I was single. Now I am married and was asked to bring my wife to sign “quit claim” form. My wife wants to sign a paper (any kind of,) giving me her authorization to sign for her on any papers forever in my business adventures.
I don’t know what kind of law the smart “Californian politicians” have invented, but that could be a great kind of a real estate investment niche for some ladies. Just marry REI guy in CA and you get half of his investments, then get rid of him and move to the next project. And in a few years you may have enough to retire:)))
Back to my question what kind of a form do I need to have my wife sign so I can no longer need her signatures in my business adventures in RE and etc. businesses forever?
Any advice is appreciated.

Trick Question? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on August 20, 2003 at 01:09:49:

James–(CA)--------

Is this some sort of trick question? Or are you really asking we real estate investors to pose as attorneys? In my view, this is a legal question. Also in my view, which is non-attorney, this is a matter to discuss with an attorney.

You see, if you are paying for the condo with money you earn while you are married, part of that condo becomes your wife’s because of the community property laws in CA. The exception is if all the funds to maintain the property derive from a separate property sorce. That is, if the property is rented out and all of the costs of owning the property are coming from that rent.

I faced the same issue when I went through divorce. Fortunately for me, the rent from the house paid for the costs and my wife-not-to-be was not able to get the judge to award her part of the property. Why? Because I had an attorney to work for me on the divorce.

It may be that what you want to do–or what your wife is proposing to do–is not even legal. I don’t know that it is not. But I sure wouldn’t bet against it being illegal. So, I recommend you talk to an attorney.

Good InvestingRon Starr*

a PRE-nuptial agreement! - Posted by I learned and

Posted by I learned and on August 19, 2003 at 22:37:24:

nt

Re: Trick Question? - Posted by James

Posted by James on August 20, 2003 at 10:44:53:

Thanks Ron! The question is not a “trick” one. I think I got lucky marrying my wife and am not planning/not even having the slightest thought of divorcing her, but I want to take independent decisions especially for things I have earned myself. The same right I freely give to her, but got somehow annoyed why in the world should be such a law you bought something before marriage and then you’ll need your spousal “yes” to sell or refi. I tend to think that lawyers have gotten their hands on everything there is money to be stolen, should not forget also the “politicians” with their “great ideas” for women’s “rights.” “Marriage for money is a crime” should be put in the CA law books. Everyone should have their own rights over the things they have on their names and if they want they something else they should sign papers. Elect me for a governor and I will put this into a law.:slight_smile: The growth CA will experience will have no match. Rich people and companies will fight to settle here in CA (best personal property protection) and we the REI’s will help them. Then those who study and work will have those who don’t work and study will have nothing. Wasn’t it written in the Bible “The one who shall not work shall not eat.”

Re: Trick Question? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on August 20, 2003 at 12:00:38:

James------------------

Well, I cannot claim to be an expert on the separate property/community property issue. However, I do know that CA does make the distinction between the two. And, if done properly, separate property does not convert into community property.

If you owned a property before you were married, that is your separate property. As long as no community funds go into the operation of the property, no community interest is created, so it continues on as separate property.

The problem comes in when you use money made while married, which is community property, to pay for owning the property. Then the portion of the property ownersip which can be attributed to that community property money becomes community property. The earlier owned part is still separate property.

I really recommend that you understand what the situation is before you do any action. Either talk with an attorney or get down to the law library and start studying separate property vs community property in the law books.

Good Investing*********Ron Starr************

Re: Trick Question? - Posted by James

Posted by James on August 21, 2003 at 05:53:55:

I don’t know why Escrow asked my wife to sign “quit clame deed”. I told them that I bought it before I married her, but they insisted on having her sign the “quit clame deed”, which meant it was a community property (at least in their mind,) or they didn’t understand the law.

Anyway thanks for your time Ron!

Re: Trick Question? - Posted by James

Posted by James on August 21, 2003 at 05:51:56:

I don’t know why Escrow asked my wife to sign “quit clame deed”. I told them that I bought it before I married her, but they insisted on having her sign the “quit clame deed”, which meant it was a community property (at least in their mind,) or they didn’t understand the law.

Re: Trick Question? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on August 21, 2003 at 07:01:49:

James–(CA)--------

Unless your wife renounced any interest in the property, the presumption is that she does have a community property interest in the property, even if her name is not on the deed. The quit claim deed is to clearly show that she has no interest in the property, that you are the sole owner.

Good Investing******Ron Starr***************

Re: Trick Question? - Posted by James

Posted by James on August 22, 2003 at 24:27:54:

What happens if a married person buys a property and sells it as a single man, I mean not putting on the docs he/she is married? Will Escrow or title companies check if a person is married or not? Do Escrow and title companies do a marriage search before they transfer titles/deeds?