Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on April 24, 2002 at 15:27:21:
Deb V----------
You’ll get a lot faster answer to your question if you just put “expired” or “expired listing” into the search engine for the archives of this main bulletinboard forum of the CREONLINE.COM site. If there are not enough current posts, you can search back into past years.
This will work with most topics related to real estate investing.
Good Investing*****************Ron Starr*************
I quit! - Posted by Pete
Posted by Pete on April 24, 2002 at 10:03:08:
I have tried postcards, signs, classified want ads. I put in the ads Any Condition, Any Price. I had NO responses from any of them. I think of quitting. I can’t keep on spending money and get no calls. I’m quitting.
Re: I quit! - Posted by Dave
Posted by Dave on April 25, 2002 at 17:14:37:
Pete,
Maybe you should go to the sellers who have already commited to sell, but are not getting any acceptable offers. I’m speaking of owners who have expired or nearly expired listings. They may be ready to listen to a creative solution to their problem. If you can find them without using a licensee, they may not be liable for a comission. In any case you have nothing invested but your time. Just an idea…keep on plowing…
Dave
get a hold of terry vaughan… - Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI)
Posted by Brian M. Powers(MI) on April 24, 2002 at 20:53:41:
tell him you’d like to hear a couple of stories. tell him you want to hear the story of the blue vase. tell him to tell you his story about the time he was fighting in a war.
when this guy is done telling you these stories, you will be embarrassed by your own self-pity.
“a winner never quits”…i guess you have already made the decision not to be a winner.
go to the success stories and read sherman’s story. this guy had a very successful business that was virtually wiped out over nite on sept. 11. but winners never quit. and niether did he. last time i heard he had already turned 3 deals.
you’ll have a hard time getting anybody on this board to feel sorry for you. the quitters come and go…the winners stick around.
will we be seeing you or are you quitting?
BMP
Sure, Leave the wealth to us. - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on April 24, 2002 at 16:29:28:
Pete----------------
There are many people who think that making money with real estate is quick and easy. You are now probably either disabused of that notion or you think YOU can’t do it, while the rest of us do it.
The truth is that there is no royal road to riches. There is always work involved in trying to get rich, even with real estate.
The successful person is the one who simply overcomes all of the small, and occasionally big, obstacles to getting done what needs to be done to create the result–money.
While you say what you have done, you don’t indicate if you have done ENOUGH to reasonably expect success. I don’t use signs, but I have used postcards successfully. I would not pronounce your postcard system a failure until I heard that you sent at least 3,000 postcards. And even then I might not call it a failure unless you had made sure that you mailed to selected property owners who might have a higher than average probability of selling to you cheap.
Finding bargains is all a matter of numbers. Typically, you have to consider about 250-1000 properties for every purchase. Some of the consideration might be–probably better be–very brief. Such as looking at a couple of numbers and discarding it. Such as square footage, location in town, and asking price. Too high an asking price? Discard. A few might involve actual looking at the properties before saying “no way.” A very few will probably involve making an offer.
Most people who buy bargains make from 10-50 offers for every accepted deal.
So, do you begin to see that it takes work to make good deals? Now, how has your effort measured up? Have you put up hundreds of signs? Have you kept your newspaper advertising going for at least four months? If not, you probably have not put in enough effort to expect to be successful.
Suppose you were part of a cast in a play. Do you suppose you guys would be ready for opening if you had just one or two rehearsals? Very doubtful, even for professionals. You might need 8 to 15 rehearsals. (I know, I was doing some amateur theatricals for a while.) So, it takes effort to make a success.
Have you really put in the required effort to be successful? Or were you expecting something for nothing? Or virtually nothing. “You too can get rich with real estate with no cash, no credit, no brains, and no work–just buy my real estate investment book-- it has everything you need.” NOT! If you were thinking that way, you are sure to be disappointed with the reality. But, the reality is that it is possible to become wealthy with real estate. Just not easily.
So, if you want to quit, fine. In fact, I wish all those other respondents hadn’t tried to keep you going. You are probably just going to be successful. You’ll take some good deals that could go to those of us who are continuing to be successful by continuing to continue.
So, if you want to quit, fine. Leave the wealth to the rest of us who know better than to give up.
Good Investing Or Good Not InvestingRon Starr**
Don’t - Posted by stacy
Posted by stacy on April 24, 2002 at 12:58:14:
Take it from someone who almost gave up a thousand times…but didn’t. The first house I bought had been vacant for 4 years, had all the meters removed, was built in 1900 and although I didn’t know it, had a whole lot of other mountains I was going to have to climb. After inspections, frustrations and yes, many times of almost giving up, that same house nets me a cashflow of $345 a month.
Just pick yourself up and keep trying. Nothing worthwhile is easy. Post questions to these incredible folks here for advice, because their experience is extremely valuable.
You are ultimately your own motivator. How bad you want success will determine how many times you will deal with the discouragement and overcome it.
It’s worth the fight I promise you. But it’s up to you to win or lose the battle.
Good Luck!
On The Other Hand… - Posted by Dan Stra
Posted by Dan Stra on April 24, 2002 at 12:18:14:
Maybe this business is not for you after all. It is not for everyone. Maybe your riches lie elsewhere.
If you do decide to quit, pleae, email me your inventory of book and tapes, I am certain that I can offer you a fair price on most of them. 
I ran an ad for over 5 months before getting one good deal. That deal is going to allow me to expand my advertising quite a bit. But I did question the ads in the 3rd month and quite a bit more in the fourth.
You sound pretty disgusted to me. If that impatience shows through then the next call you get is probably not going to be successful. Furthermore, the odds are that it will take over 10-20 calls to find a good deal. Are you prepared to keep working for those 20 calls if you still haven’t gotten one after all of this time?
I am not trying to discourage you, I would like to see you stick it out. But sometimes we need to take a sample of who we are, what we want to do and move on. In doing so, never,ever look back at the decision to do something else. Even if, down the road, you can see the old miner digging up gold in your old mine the decision you make to “sell out” now may be the best one for you today. It should never be regretted.
Best,
Dan
I quit too, the silly marketing that is . . . - Posted by JoeKaiser
Posted by JoeKaiser on April 24, 2002 at 12:15:27:
Some time ago, I was heavily invested in marketing myself. The costs where not inconsequential (classified ads in more than a few papers being the chief culprits). I decided to take a break and do something different, and it was kind of a relief not having a $3,000 monthly nut to deal with. At the figure, I was $100 in the hole the moment I got out of bed in the morning and though the resulting business always got the thing covered, it created a sort of “rat race” I no longer care to run.
Lots of marketing, I now see, is great if that’s all you know. But when it’s no longer just me and “Crazy Dave” running the I Buy Houses ads and instead there’s a dozen in there, I suspect my ad is more than a little bit less effective.
I depended on motivated sellers to find me through my marketing. I no longer think in those terms. Today, I’ve abandoned the notion that they find me and instead, I find them, freeing me from that $100 a day hanging over my head.
And I sleep in a lot more than I used to . . . maybe that has something to do with it.
My answer to your problem is to get smart, figure out where the motivated sellers are hiding, and then go to them directly. Why chance that they find you? Invest those same dollars into avenues to their door.
Joe
Keep in mind… - Posted by Michael in Phoenix
Posted by Michael in Phoenix on April 24, 2002 at 12:03:51:
…that the number one cause of small business failure in this country, the last time I looked, was under-capitalization. The second cause was lack of management skills.
CRE investing requires you to constantly grow, learn, and invest your time wisely in order to prosper. Most people won’t do those things under even the BEST of circumstances, much less under challenging conditions.
I agree with JohnBoy… you have to decide whether or not you are going to quit, or whether or not you are going to do what other successful investors have done: find a solution to EVERY challenge, and not let yourself be overcome with frustration!
Michael
Re: Three Feet from GOLD - Posted by Stacy (AZ)
Posted by Stacy (AZ) on April 24, 2002 at 12:03:42:
If you haven’t read “Think and Grow Rich,” Napoleon Hill’s classic, please do yourself a favor. Before you quit, make an agreement with yourself to delay your decision until you’ve read the book. It’s very inexpensive, and won’t take long to read. Then you can still decide to quit. My guess is, instead, you’ll move right through this “temporary defeat” to a successful journey.
There’s a classic true story Napoleon conveys at the beginning of the book, I’d like to paraphrase:
. A man was caught up in the gold rush, and decided to go to Colorado to stake his claim. He dug for weeks, using hand tools, and was soon rewarded by finding one of the richest veins in Colorado. He went home to Maryland to get funding from family and close friends for more equipment, and returned to work the mine.
A few boxcars of rich ore made his hopes and dreams soar. Then something happened. The vein of gold ore stopped! His hopes were dashed, as they desparately drilled-on in an attempt to find the vein again.
Finally, they DECIDED TO QUIT.
He sold the mining equipment to a junk man for a few hundred dollars, and took the train back home. The junk man got a mining engineer to look at the mine. The engineer advised that the project had failed because the owners were not familiar with fault lines. His calculations showed the vein would be found just THREE FEET from where the owners had stopped drilling.
The junk man took millions of ore from the mine. The previous owners failed when they QUIT, instead of working through temporary defeat.
Ask yourself this, Pete. If other people are successful at Real Estate investing, why can’t you be? Are they smarter than you? I doubt it! I know a couple successful investors that never even graduated from high school. Do they have special powers? Hardly!
Do they have the drive and perseverance to never say “QUIT” until they get what they want?
ABSOLUTELY.
Re: I quit! - Posted by tampasteph
Posted by tampasteph on April 24, 2002 at 11:41:13:
Hi Pete! I am a beginner also. Yesterday I MADE myself call real estate agents. I called 4 and asked all for a list of fixer-uppers in my county. I am sitiing here as we speak with a list of 179 fixer-uppers. All I did was ask. I put off calling a realtor for the last two weeks because I was afraid that he/she would not take me seriously due to my lack of experience. I wish I would have acted sooner!!!
If it helps any, when I am feeling like I want to quit or that rei will not work for me, I go directly to the success stories on this site and read them until I am motivated again. It ALWAYS gets me back on track!!! If everyone else can do it, so can we!!! Don’t give up!!!
I agree - Posted by Redline
Posted by Redline on April 24, 2002 at 11:39:38:
My ads and signs have been pretty dead lately as well. Less calls now than probably ever before. Not really sure why, but I know it’s gonna take ALOT more than that to make me a quitter.
RL
Before you quit… - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on April 24, 2002 at 11:34:23:
think about posting what you’ve been doing and asking for some input. I can tell you (from experience) that no amount of ads and bandit signs (which would get you fined to death) would get you any calls here in Santa Barbara. But there are other kinds of REI opportunities here. I’m working in a different area now and my ads produce calls every day.
It’s just too easy to say because you didn’t get any calls that you’ve done everything you have to do. Ask here for some advice. Consider changing your area or your focus. But if you’ve already invested time and money, I’d get some help on this board before I quit.
Just my two cents. Sincerely, Kristine
Re: I quit! - Posted by Rob FL
Posted by Rob FL on April 24, 2002 at 10:31:43:
OK you’ve tried getting them to come to you. Now you go to them. Pick up the newspaper classifieds, drive some neighborhoods, get a foreclosure list, get with a Realtor who can provide you a list of junker bank repos, etc.
I do all the ads, bandit signs, etc. myself and sometimes the well runs dry on that end for a period. I beef up my own pro-activeness when that happens.
Didn’t you quit a month ago…? - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on April 24, 2002 at 10:22:19:
Or was that another guy named Pete, that was quiting… ?
This business takes comittment, and you cannot commit while sitting on the fence. Now either get on or off of the fence… and make a decision.
Just remember that if you decide to quit… you are the one that has to live with this decision, and the crappy results that you will yield from such a choice. It really is far easier to succeed than to fail… as the emotinal baggage of failure is HEAVY… but then I do not have to describe that to you, cause you already know that. But I (and others) can tell you that the feeling of success is much easier to accomodate.
It is so much easier if you just decide to “suck it up, and refuse to fail”, and before you know it, you will wonder what took you so long to make this committment. Good luck on your decision, whichever way you choose.
Just the way that I view things…
JT-IN
Re: I quit! - Posted by JohnBoy
Posted by JohnBoy on April 24, 2002 at 10:09:38:
Congratulations!
You just put yourself into the 95% group of all people that try to get into this business and ends up quitting!
You say you put signs out.
What type of signs? What size are they? What do they say?
How many signs per week have you put out? How many weeks have you been putting that many out? Where have you been putting them?
Post Cards Direct Solicitation[long] - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on April 24, 2002 at 22:10:40:
I received the following e-mail question. I see no problem with privacy. You can learn and you can add comments.
-----THE E-MAIL--------*
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:02:02 EDT
Subject: Postcards
Hi Ron!
I just read your post to Pete, and I am not quitting although I have not had response to ads either…yet. I am just developing post cards and a
mailing list and you mentioned sending them to people most likely to respond…would you expand on that? I was simply going to mail out 1000 every week or two to several selected farm areas which have about 25000 homes in them and just rotate til I hit them all. I’m also looking at expired listings. Any other specific criteria you can suggest and how to get the info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
---–RESPONSE---**---–*-
[name removed]-----------
Ok. But first, please be precise, I said property owners who “might have a higher than average probability of selling to you cheap.” I did not mention “most likely to respond.”
I select people whose tax bill mailing address is far away from the property they own. They are more likely to be having trouble managing. And they might not have a precise idea of the property values. This suggests also targeting areas which have had good appreciation recently.
I send to those who have owned the property for several years. If they sell to me at a discount from market value, they might not care too much, since they are selling to me with profit above their purchase price.
I target people whose properties I would want to own. Understand I am a buy/rent/hold investor, not a quick resell investor. So I only send to people whose houses meet some personally-relevant criteria: Number of bathrooms, number of bedrooms, age, square footage, etc. Properties that I predict would be good investments for me.
Now, you mention expired listings. That sounds to me like a list that would get a good response rate and might be motivated enough to sell for less than market value. HOWEVER, note that they probably have a pretty good grasp of the market value, if their real estate licencee did a reasonably good job of educating them about it. So it might be more difficult to get a really deep discount. However, they might be willing to sell on terms which would make the property attractive to you. Also recognize that expired listings may also have a high proportion of over-priced properties.
There are people in default on mortgages and those in default on their property taxes. There are people who are doing an eviction of renters. There are people who have been cited by a governmental agency for having a neglected building, a blight on the community, and some such. There are vacant houses. There are run-down houses, seen by driving the streets. There are probate cases in the court and the heirs from probate cases. There may be prospects who have had a judgment filed against them recently or who have been arrested and accused of committing some crime. Might they need cash to pay the attorney? Or the judgment?
You might want to read John Reed’s book on bargain real estate buying to see other possible lists to create. look on johntreed.com
How about people with two properties? Especially if one is a vacation home.
Just start thinking of people who might be willing to sell cheap. Then try to figure out how and where you can get or create lists for mailings. Even just broadband mass mailings such as you mention doing could be useful if you think about what happens.
You mail to a mass of people. Some of those solicitations come back to you undelivered. Why? What are the circumstances? Could there be richer ore in that list of returned cards than in the run of the mill list from which your started? For one thing, they are not receiving your mail piece, maybe they are not receiving other people’s mail pieces, such as real estate agents bragging about what great high prices they are getting for their house sellers. They may have moved. Well, then maybe their life is changing and they could use some money. Maybe they are open to other changes, such as selling to you their house. Maybe they have died, and so checking probate files would be useful, or talking to neighbors about possible heirs to contact.
Look at those returned cards and see if there is a forewarding address to which you can send again. Consider sending a letter to the owner in an envelop which is mailed to the subject property address, with the notation, “Please forward” on the front.
You see, there are ways to use the results of a mass mailing to attempt to find people who are not responding to you because they don’t want to sell, but are not getting your solicitation. Many, even if you do get through to them, might still not sell to you. But, you will not know without experimenting.
You may hit some properties which are ripe for adverse possession. If you don’t know what that is, you might want to study how good it is in your state. I’m not going to explain it. Law libraries have lots of information on the topic. But, those not getting mail and not paying their taxes would be good targets for this approach to super-low price property acquisition.
Good Investing*************Ron Starr*****************
But, Joe… - Posted by Pete
Posted by Pete on April 24, 2002 at 13:07:21:
…how do I find this people? Mailings, postcards?
Suggestions on finding the motivated sellers… - Posted by J
Posted by J on April 24, 2002 at 12:45:06:
I have recently started sending out postcards to landlords from eviction filings and I also get foreclusere list every month. I hate getting the foreclosure, bcs. all the other investors get the same list as well. I also thought about getting divorce filings and sending mailouts. Do you have any other places, that I should look for motivated sellers?