Posted by Tim Jensen on January 23, 2001 at 14:30:20:
Steve,
I think you misunderstood me.
I have to go down to the county recorders ioffice however I do not have to go into microfilm to veiw the deeds
Tim
IL trustee question finally answered!! - Posted by Tim Jensen
Posted by Tim Jensen on January 21, 2001 at 10:35:43:
Hi All,
I posted a while back about how you do not need to put the trustees name on the deed in Ilinois. Bill Gatten posted about how you I may need to put the trustees name on the deed.
Well I did some more research and found out what the skinny is.
I was told by a underwriter from Chicago Title that you do not need to put the trustees name on the deed when deeding a property into trust and that they will have no problem issueing title insurance when deeding out, however they will need a original of the trust agreement in order to do that. He also suggested that you make sure the trust agreement is notarized and witnessed. He continued by stating that it may even be a good idea to have more than one trust agreement notirized and witnessed and keep one at home and the other in a safe place.
I hope this helps anyone in IL.
Tim Jensen
Re: IL trustee question finally answered!! - Posted by Bill Gatten
Posted by Bill Gatten on January 21, 2001 at 16:14:50:
Tim,
Interestingly, that issue had come up in a conversation I’d had with a VP with Chicago title’s Land Trust division in San Diego, about 3 weeks before the post you’re referring to. I was told that Chicago Title wouldn’t (or couldn’t) accept a trusteeship in a land trust which did not clearly vest the title with them as the trustee and legal and equitable title holder.
If I misunderstood or was misled; or if my answer was incorrect and misled you, I truly apologize.
In your question of your contact at Chigaco Title, did you clearly indicate that it was a land trust, versus a trustee directed trust, that you were referring to?
Bill Gatten
Re: IL trustee question finally answered!! - Posted by Bud Branstetter
Posted by Bud Branstetter on January 21, 2001 at 11:27:37:
Tim,
I did a joint venture a number of years ago on a house. The title was recorded in the name of the JV. Reviewing it later with an attorney presented a problem that without a persons name others could encumber or even sell an interest by creating their own JV agreement. Yes it would be fraud but there is not a drivers license etc. to prove who the JV was.
While I have not had to show the trust to the title company in the past because I enumerated the powers on the deed with a name, I have been advised that Fidelity has changed their policy and want to see all the LT agreements now.
Re: IL trustee question finally answered!! - Posted by BR
Posted by BR on January 21, 2001 at 11:07:28:
Tim,
I believe that if you did name the trustee on the deed you would not need to show them the agreement. Is this not correct?
Re: IL trustee question finally answered!! - Posted by Tim Jensen
Posted by Tim Jensen on January 21, 2001 at 21:04:45:
Bill,
It was your post that made me question whether I could just deed my property into trust leaving the trustee name off the deed. I asked 2 local companies then decided to ask a title company that was nationwide (Chicago Title).
When I spoke to the guy in underwriting, I asked him this: (paraphrasing)
" I am interesting in putting my properties into trust. I have looked up a lot of properties that have been deeded into trusts and notice that they always name the trustee on the deed. What I want to do is deed the property directly into the trust name without naming the trustee." I continued, “It would not take a brain surgeon to figure out that if Tim Jensen deeded a property into Tim Jensen as trusteee for abc trust, that I was the benificiary of the property. Hence having an interest in it. I want to just put it into the trust name so that it will be much more difficult to figure out if I still have any interest in the property. I am wondering that if I deed the property into the trust and leave the trustee’s name off the deed will I have any problems getting title insurance for that property if I decide to sell it 10-20 years down the road, since the trustees name is not on the deed?”
His response was this: “We would provide title insurance on this property as long as we have a copy of the original land trust.” He suggested having it notarized and wuitnessed and that I may even want to have more than one land trust notarized and witnessed in case I lose the land trust agreement.
Does that clear things up?
Thank you for your time!!
Tim
Re: IL trustee question finally answered!! - Posted by Houserookie
Posted by Houserookie on January 22, 2001 at 01:36:38:
Would the orignal land trust get recorded, and made
available to the public?
Re: IL trustee question finally answered!! - Posted by MichaelG
Posted by MichaelG on January 22, 2001 at 01:18:15:
Tim –
That would seem to make logical sense to even a title company rep. Also I see it as a more functional way of titleing trust properties and avoid the need to re-title in the event of changing trustees.
Can you provide your contact name at Chicago title so that I might followup along that same line.
Thanks for being so diligent on this subject.
Re: IL trustee question finally answered!! - Posted by JohnBoy
Posted by JohnBoy on January 22, 2001 at 01:54:12:
I’m assuming what they meant was that when you go to sell the property then at that time you would need to show the title company the trust agreement. Until that time, just the deed naming the trust gets recorded.
Premis not logical - Posted by Bud Branstetter
Posted by Bud Branstetter on January 22, 2001 at 12:04:17:
When you want to change trustees you do not retitle the property. You create a resignation and appointment of a new trustee. You do not have to file that at the point it is signed. The title company would want to see it at the point of sale and they may even want to file it.
Tim’s premis that one would “assume” that if Tim deeded a property to a trust with Tim as the trustee that Tim would also be the beneficiary. There is not a valid basis for that. Why could not Tim have sold the interest in the trust but want to keep control if they are making payments. The thinking may come from the living trust concept where a person does make themselves trustee with an alternate in order to avoid probate. In such a living trust title does have to be retitled when the living trust is replaced by another living trust of a new date. Properly, title to real estate would be in a land trust with the living trust as benficiary. The land trust is not the same and the beneficiary should not be the same as the trustee. A third party is inexpensive and worthwhile to hold bare naked title. It is not a matter of would the title company give insurance but what is the appropriate way to use a land trust to provide privacy, protection, and the other benefits.
Re: Premis not logical - Posted by Tim Jensen
Posted by Tim Jensen on January 22, 2001 at 13:35:39:
Bud,
I read your post and wanted to respond.
I think that it would not be far fetched for someone to realize that if a person deeded their property into a trust while keeping themselves as trustee. That in some way they still had an interest.
Most lawyers would figure that the person deeded the property into trust for estate purposes, but still have an interest in the property.
I just think it muddies the waters, when you deed your property into trust to keep your name off the deed. Sure they may be able to find out about that property, however it may help hide other properties.
Take Care,
Tim
Re: Premis not logical - Posted by Chicago Steve
Posted by Chicago Steve on January 22, 2001 at 22:31:25:
I completely agree. I’d assume you retained interest.
My understanding is that you do not NEED to specify the trustee on the deed but in the event of argument use “123 main street trust # XYZ whatever…Bob Smith trustee” which will not all fit in the alloted space in the public record. A lawyer would have to actually pull a copy of the deed to see your name.
AS far a title insurance goes…NOT AN ISSUE!
I don’t understand why he would tell you to have your trust agreement notarized when it’s only necessary for documents being recorded??
Re: Premis not logical - Posted by Tim Jensen
Posted by Tim Jensen on January 23, 2001 at 10:08:45:
Steve,
I see your point about how to deed the place, however it only take two strokes on the keyboard to pull up a copy of the deed in my area. So it is still best to just put the trust’s name on the deed and leave the trustee off, then show the title company a copy of the trust agreement when you go to sell.
Tim
Re: Premis not logical - Posted by Chicago Steve
Posted by Chicago Steve on January 23, 2001 at 10:39:55:
We’re not so fortunate here as to view actual documents on the desk top. I have to go to the county or my attorney can see the abstract or list of liens, etc. from his desk top. I’m not ready to start paying $400 a month for the service…yet!
I envey your available technology!