Illinois Land Trust- Lawyers opinion? - Posted by glen

Real Estate Investing Real Estate Law
#1

Posted by Bud Branstetter on February 23, 2001 at 11:04:30:

Tim,

What Bill are you referring to? Shaun Casey’s, Bill Bronchick’s and Bill Gatten’s land trust are all very similar. In Shaun Casey’s course he has an additional rider for states that have laws on trustees duties. In Gatten’s case one of the tenants is that the trustee only holds bare naked title. A third party collection agent is appointed to manage and collect.

While the question becomes how familiar is the attorney with land trusts this reference may be of help to you. It is in reference with Texas law but may help. See http://www.maxpages.com/law

#2

Illinois Land Trust- Lawyers opinion? - Posted by glen

Posted by glen on February 22, 2001 at 22:02:04:

I have Bill Bronchicks Land Trust Course. I Live in Illinois. I’ve had the course for a while now and have used it twice. Today I took it to a Lawyer for his review and he said it has to many possible duties for the trustee which could cause Liability for the trustee (to much management ability). He also said in Illinois Land Trusts are widely used and most Lawyers will look for them so they don’t offer much protection as far as hidding the property. Has anyone else in Illinois had a Lawyer have the same opinions? Should I just delete some of the Trustees duties so he/she only deals with the title? Please any opinions would be helpful?
Glen

#3

Re: Illinois Land Trust- Lawyers opinion? - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on February 23, 2001 at 24:54:39:

Why not have Bronchick serve as your trustee? He used to do this for a fee…maybe he still does. Evidently Bronchick was not concerned over his liabilities…he wrote the thing and serves as a trustee. Something to think about.

By the way, my attorney didn’t want to be a trustee either. Lawyers are funny that way…they see shadows lurking almost everywhere.

JPiper

#4

Re: Illinois Land Trust- Lawyers opinion? - Posted by B.L.Renfrow

Posted by B.L.Renfrow on February 22, 2001 at 23:38:06:

I am neither a lawyer nor in Illinois, but I have used Bill’s land trust documents for a number of deals. As for the trustee’s management responsibilities, remember that the trustee acts ONLY upon direction by the beneficiary. The trustee is not obligated to perform any duties unless so directed.

As far as lawyers looking for land trusts, as Tim says below, they first have to know where to look, then they have to find some way to trace it back to you. If you’re not doing something silly like listing yourself personally as trustee, and follow the recommendations in Bill’s course, I think it’s an excellent means of disguising ownership. Foolproof? Of course not. But, make the fish difficult to locate and eventually the fishermen go away.

Brian (NY)

#5

Re: Illinois Land Trust- Lawyers opinion? - Posted by Tim Jensen

Posted by Tim Jensen on February 22, 2001 at 23:00:12:

Glen,

Funny you should bring that up. I am going to meet with an attorney tommorow regarding Bill’s land trust. I will let you know the outcome.

I am looking at Bills trust agreement and I can see why the attorney would say what he said. I am not an attorney, however this is my opinion. The agreement puts a lot of resposibility on the trustee. However, the trustee is acting on the direction of the benificiary.

I would go and ask the attorney what specifically needs to be changed in the trust agreement. Offer to pay him to make the changes.

Finally, a trust gives zero protection, it will only hide the bene’s name. Now lets say that on the deed there was only the trust’s name and not the trustees name? Who would they contact. Next, what happens if the trusts address is in another state? Finally, what happens if the plantiff’s attorney finds out who the trustee is then he gets them in court only to find out that the bene. is actually a limited partnership where the general partner is a corporation. Get the idea. It took me about 4 years to finally understand why people use the corps and other entities even though they are a one man show. You want to make it very very difficult for anyone to get money from you. In other words, make it such a pain to get to the real owner and collect that the attorney will move onto another case where there is a deep insurance company pocket and less hassle. The path of least resistence is the most beaten path.

So, if you set your properties in a manner that makes it very difficult to collect any money. Most attorneys will pass. Think about it. You set up your properties to be a maze. Next time a tenant tell you that they are going to sue you you can tell them the courthouse is a 400 West state St. file the suit in room 201. JUST BRING IT!

E-mail me if you would like more info.

Tim Jensen