I'm tired of being JERKED! by loan officers. HELP! - Posted by Andre

Posted by dew on May 14, 2000 at 24:59:45:

So Michael, what do you mean “we would love to assist”.
Do you buy notes off the table? Please advise. dew(CO): dewol99@hotmail.com

I’m tired of being JERKED! by loan officers. HELP! - Posted by Andre

Posted by Andre on May 12, 2000 at 17:53:34:

Here’s the deal.

Duplix p.price of $77k
Appraisal of $94k
Seller carry back $20k NO Intrest, No payments, 3yr Balloon
Seller has agreed to walk with $57k @ closing
Beacon score of 606
Great, right!

$37,000 of floating money. Why can’t I close? Sorry, #&%@!!, loan officers. I should not have to come to the closing table w/no money, just a coke & a smile and leave with a check in my hand.

Here’s my problem w/L.Officers (1)they will not return a phone call. (2)Lack of creativity, I had 1 tell me I had to come to the table with $8,000 (why) (3)Can’t close when they say they can= Lost of time & someone else pulling a credit report.

It’s Friday. I haven’t heard from this one, who told me we could close this Wed. More than likely, I’ll call my seller who is out of state only to hear those words, I’m sorry I’ll have to go w/someone who can close.

Yes, I’ll try to buy some more time. If I can get some help.

Help! call collect if you have to,404/669-8468 and we’ll go into more detail.


Re: I’m tired of being JERKED! by loan officers. HELP! - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on May 13, 2000 at 13:27:44:


First of all I’d like to tell you that a 606 credit score is NOT great. It’s barely OK.
OK is 620 up to about 680. After 680 you’re GREAT.

After saying that I’d like to say it’s a shame lenders put so much value on credit
Scores, but that’s just the way it is. (I could tell you why, but that’s another post).

When you state, $37,000 of floating money, I’m sure you mean EQUITY difference
between the value and the property and the loan amount that the lender is lending.

So your deal ( if your numbers are correct) is at 60% LTV.

To be honest with you, at this point you have structured it right, and it’s a good buy.

In your mind you have a 60% LTV deal, and you feel that the lender should jump through
hoops and say, WAHOO, I got a WEAK borrower, buying a NONE OWNER OCCUPPIED
property, with NOTHING DOWN, and a seller who is LYING about the deal, with a phony
seller carry back.

Andre, this deal, and the way you have structured it from a lenders point of view, is about
as exciting as watching paint dry.

However, I must agree, it’s a deal. Jim Piper and Laura are both right, I know how to make this
deal with out going HARD MONEY.

Since you have BUTCHERED Loan officers and Brokers, I would like to tell you that a good one
Is worth their weight in GOLD. But I can tell, by the way you have made this post, that if you
get together with a MEDIOCRE broker, it is definitely (the blind leading the blind.)

Zig Ziggler once said, it’s that little bit of difference that makes all the difference in the world.
He then continued to say, It’s like a women, you can say, she has a face that makes all time stand still.
That’s beautiful. Or you can say, she has a face that would stop a clock. Big difference.

So you see Andre, a good broker would know how to structure, package, and present your deal, in
order to make it fly. Right now a blind man could see that you and your broker structured a deal with
a weak borrower at a 100% CLTV, on a none owner occupied deal. Once you give a lender a weak
borrower, they look harder at the structuring of the deal, and at the deal in general.

With a few minor changes this deal could be a SLAM DUNK. Would I help you with your deal?
It depends on my mood, and right now you put me in a bad mood.

I’d like to make another suggestion. Next time you put together a fraudulent deal, don’t be dumb
enough to post it.

Andre, I help people on this site all of the time, and you’re no different. After taking my lashing
if you want some help, I will clean up and restructure the deal to make it fly.

If not, it makes no difference to me, but I just want to let you know that you’re not the lenders
Dream that you think you are. And what’s happening to you is an indication of that.

Ed Garcia

Give Me A Break… - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on May 13, 2000 at 01:35:47:

Frankly, I DO agree that there are many unqualified loan officers/mortgage brokers out there. But if you approached them the way this post reads, I?m not sure who?s more unqualified?you or them.

First things first though. If you want to speak with an excellent mortgage broker?.take Laure?s advice. Give Ed Garcia or Neal Johnson a call at 909-944-0199.

But please?..don?t call with the attitude that this business is about showing up with a ?coke and a smile? and ?leaving with a check in my hand?. Sometimes it takes a little knowledge to do that?.and it?s clear right now that that?s something you?re short on. What on earth is ?floating money?? After 20 years in this business that?s one term I?ve never heard of. Hopefully there?s not a another guru who has coined another meaningless phrase. From your post I can?t tell whether you paid $57K, or $77K?.what with the seller carrying a $20K note and ?walking from closing with $57K?. Either way, one would hope you would understand that if you?re going to approach a conventional lender as a non-owner occupant, you?re going to need to have some cash in the deal. Knowing this saves a whole lot of time.

If I were you, I?d get off the high horse about mortgage brokers, and accept some responsibility for where you stand right now. It?s you who structured the deal, picked the broker you picked, etc etc etc. It sounds like a good deal?.but for your own good, get someone knowledgeable into the deal. Call Garcia?chances are the guy will be in his office tomorrow, Saturday.


Approach this one differently… - Posted by Michael Morrongiello

Posted by Michael Morrongiello on May 12, 2000 at 23:52:39:

I assume you are trying to purchase with no money down this investment property? Even with your credit score that may be difficult at the exposure level you are wanting a lender to go.

If you can put some cash down, and structure (2) two seller financed notes, a 1st lien that can be sold to generate the cash the seller NEEDS and the 2nd lien he can retain, then The road to travel becomes much easier.

Just something to ponder…

To your success,’

Michael Morrongiello

call Ed Garcia’s office - Posted by Laure

Posted by Laure on May 12, 2000 at 21:30:01:

Call Ed Garcia. He has a great man working for him (Neil) that can CLOSE deals !

Laure :slight_smile:

Re: I’m tired of being JERKED! by loan officers. HELP! - Posted by Douglas

Posted by Douglas on May 12, 2000 at 20:58:56:

Andre: I know what you mean . One of many reasons why some of us work only with Private Investor groups. The one I work with presently can fund deals with FICO scores as low as 530 ! Residential, one to four units. Can help bankruptcy buyers after one year if they have new credit lines, etc. Less red tape and rejection if you go this route.

Re: I’m tired of being JERKED! by loan officers. HELP! - Posted by Vic

Posted by Vic on May 12, 2000 at 20:04:23:


Hi, I can relate to your situation. I had the same problem with a duplex. I can’t begin to tell you how unhappy I am with most mtg. brokers. It’s amazing how so many just leave you hanging. I did manage to get a loan though with 100% financing, but it’s not easy. My int. rate was going to be over 11%. In meantime, I may have found another buyer though, so I may end up flipping.

Now for your situation, I’m not so sure that a 606 Beacon score is such a high score. I’m not a mtg. broker, but my exp. says it’s not. In fact, it may be a lil low.

Most mtg. brokers want you to have something into a property & that’s why they don’t really want to do zero down. Also, they ususally go off of the lower of the sales price or the appraised price. The mtg. brokers theory (whether you agree or not) is that if things go bad, youre much more likely to walk away from an inv. prop. than a home you live in, thus the difficulty in getting a zero down loan on inv. prop.

Keep calling mtg. brokers though & you’ll end up with someone that can get the deal done.


Garcia - Posted by Laure

Posted by Laure on May 13, 2000 at 07:12:14:

Well, I guess he SHOULD be in his office on Saturday. After all, he’s taking Sunday off for Mother’s day, and He probably slacked all day Friday since it was his Birthday. He probably would just like to take three days in a row off… the slacker. We’re all safe as long as he doesn’t follow my grandpas formula to live to be 106… a bottle of red wine every day.

LOL (all in fun)

Laure :slight_smile:

You’re Depressing me. - Posted by Andre

Posted by Andre on May 13, 2000 at 06:14:04:

Are you a paid participant of this site? You are really no help at all sir! You make me want to quit this biz and just work for someone. You depress me

Re: Approach this one differently… - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on May 13, 2000 at 01:30:13:

Hey Mike:

After pondering your post, I don’t think you read his post.

It looks to me like he has two notes structured…at least that’s what he says. Even though the guy is quite unclear, it appears the first is a maximum of $57K on a $94K appraisal. That’s 60% LTV. That isn’t good enough for a note buyer???


Re: You’re Depressing me. - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on May 13, 2000 at 15:13:28:


I don?t buy it.

You can?t get your deal done?.it?s the loan officer?s fault. You?re feeling depressed and ready to quit the business?.it?s my fault. See the underlying theme there? Whatever the underlying predicament that Andre finds himself in is someone else?s responsibility.

You expected to show up with a ?coke and a smile? and collect a check I guess out of the lender?s proceeds. You expected to post on the newsgroup and get responses that would be warm and fuzzy. See the underlying theme here? Life is supposed to be easy for Andre.

Guess what? This is not an easy business?.I guarantee it. And the less responsibility you take for your own predicaments, the tougher it?s going to get. Your ability to take responsibility for your own problems is going to be a major factor in any success that you experience in this business (or probably in any other business). And if all it takes is a post from me to get you out of this business?.you weren?t cut out for it to begin with.

Do yourself a favor. You?re feeling depressed? Get over it. Give Garcia a call?.he?s an outstanding mortgage broker. And make it a point to learn the mortgage business inside and out. It?s important to not only your own loans, but to getting loans for people that want to buy from you.

And no?.they don?t pay participants to depress people.

Good luck with your deal?it looks like it has possibilities.


Re: You’re Depressing me. - Posted by MatthewC

Posted by MatthewC on May 13, 2000 at 14:06:01:

You are probably not going to get a lot of helpful responses with this kind of comment. And since you have a 404 area code, you won’t attract too many investor friends in the Atlanta area that frequent this board by slamming another investor here.

ponder… - Posted by Laure

Posted by Laure on May 13, 2000 at 07:14:45:

My favorite song is an oldie… by the Shirelles called “Ma Ma said there’d be days like this”

The only ones who said this trip would be easy is the gurus on late night TV.

Laure :slight_smile:

Let me be Clearer…Have the SELLER carry (2) Notes - Posted by Michael Morrongiello

Posted by Michael Morrongiello on May 13, 2000 at 12:28:39:

You’re absolutley right, we can’t tell exactly what is going on here? It appears that Andre wants to purchase this property that is valued at $94K for $77K with NO money down. He has convinced the seller to carry a $20K subordinate 2nd lien and is seeking a $57K 1st lien so that he can complete his purchase.

Are there (2) two notes here?

I interpreted this deal structure to show that there is a 1st lien mortgage that he is looking to borrow and ONE seller carry back ($20K) 2nd lien note.

With this being a non owner occupied purchase, The lack of any cash being put into this deal would concern most traditional lenders and even most note buyers. A HARD MONEY lender would be better suited to make a loan to LEND Andre the $57K he needs to complete this purchase. If the $94K FMV is realistic, then that represents a 61% LTV for them. However for some HARD MONEY lenders that may be a tad high.
NOTE: If Andre decides to go this route, he is then looking at an “off market” interest rate on the loan (perhaps 14% -18% or more!) which could be very expensive, plus points, brokerage fees, prepayment penalty, etc.

Here is where I want to be CLEAR - As this is the Alternative structure I alluded to:

It involves the SELLER carrying back (2) two notes.

My Feeling is if he can put down at least 5% cash ($3,850.00) of the purchase price ($77K) he can structure this much easier with the SELLER agreeing to carry back (2) two notes, a 1st lien of lets say $60,000.00 @ 11.5% amortized FULLY with NO balloon or prepayment and NO points for 360 months payable $594.17 P & I.

The seller would continue to hold the $20,000.00 as a 2nd lien.

This $60,000.00 1st lien SELLER FINANCED note can then be converted into $53,150.00 CASH +/- at the time of closing by having the seller sell it to a note funder that knows and understands these type transactions. (we would love to assist). The $53,150.00 CASH resulting from the sale of the 1st lien mortgage along with the $3,850.00 5% buyers cash down payment = the $57,000.00 the seller NEEDS and then the seller keeps his $20,000.00 2nd lien note.

NOTE: Terms, discount rates, etc. are all presented for illustration purposes. These terms can be “tweaked” and be changed depending on the various parties needs. We are not dealing with “off the rack” financing here.

It is my opinion that this transaction becomes VERY DOABLE if put together in this fashion.

Michael Morrongiello