insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by Sally

Posted by tang-0-rang on February 22, 2002 at 15:55:28:

I am in Grand Junction, its next to the CO/UT border. I do not attend the Carei meetings YET. just getting back into the swing of things and its on my list. yourself?
Todd Williamson(CO)

insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by Sally

Posted by Sally on February 21, 2002 at 09:36:28:

Hi all!

Last summer, I looked a property that I really wanted. It was a dorky piece of property (no curb appeal, weird layout of rooms, etc) but it would have been perfect for me to do my business out of and I really wanted it. It had a small rental house on the property with the main house, so it would have cash-flowed nicely for me to live and work in.

The owners were divorcing. She was covering about $1,400 a month in expenses on this place although she was already living elsewhere. She was motivated. He was living in there (“dug in” was more like it), and probably not coughing up cash every month so he wasn’t quite as motivated. That was the messy part.

I found out that because of their divorce situation going on, they had recently “bit” on one of those 2nd mortgage home equity loan deals that came to them on a postcard that offer to give you some terrific deal on a home equity loan. A dude came out to the property (owner said “with a clipboard looking all official” - now you guys know what little it takes to impress some people!) and did an “appraisal” for this 2nd. He was there about 15 minutes. He said the property was worth $410,000 so there would be no problem extending a $60k loan that would bring the indebtedness on the property up to $280,000. (they bought about 5 years earlier for about $180k- and interesting enough, the owner originally carried their loan)

Well… they had this $410k figure stuck in their heads. The realtor listed the property for about that, and would only go as low as $389. Waaaaay too high for this property that would also be a challenge to re-sell. Because of it’s layout, this house wouldn’t be suitable for older people or for those with young kids. (take my word for that - it had a limited list of potential buyers)

During this time, I even sprung to have Bill Bronchick give me some advice on this (thanks, Bill!) and it was pretty much what I had already determined… that the most I would consider going was $310k-which I considered about 10k on the generous side if we could work out terms. Even though I had nice conversations with the wife, they were insulted, appauled, upset, angry … you name it… at me for offering such a low offer. (Can you say “clear the way”?)

Their realtor even came in my retail shop (when I had a bunch of customers around me) threatening me that I better had not go near Mr and Mrs Jone’s place again! (my customers thought she was an attorney and I musta been some kind of stalker!)

So… after another few weeks of hoping they would come to their senses over price (especially with no pile of full price offers floating in for them), I just dropped the whole effort. A month or two later, I saw that someone new moved in and the realty signs were down.

Just yesterday, while searching the assessor’s records online, I took a peek at that property to see if it indeed sold to a different party and what the sales price was… and it did sell late last summer for $300k! That was 10k under my insulting offer!

I know I just blazed the trail for someone else on that house. I’m not upset, but I wish in hindsight I would have stayed in touch with that seller for another few weeks instead of throwing in the towel.

So how often do you guys get thrown out on your butts after making the “insulting” first offer and then later find out the sellers did indeed accept a similar offer from someone else after their anger at your “lowball offer” subsided?


It can be sweet if you get it for LESS - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on February 22, 2002 at 10:21:06:

If I have an offer turned down cold I always try to be pleasant about it and explain that it’s not them or their property, it’s just that I can’t pay any more. Then I tell them to call me anytime if they change their minds.

Occasionally they do call back, and I always say how sorry I am that I bought another property in the meantime and am short of cash, then make them an offer for less than I did the first time. About half the time they take it.

By the way I do the same thing if a buyer breaks off negotiations - hold out for more than I would have sold it for in the first place.

The reason, now they know they are not going to do better elsewhere and are ready to deal, why should I pay more (or sell for less) if nobody else will?

Plus I get a little revenge back.

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by Fern(SoCal)

Posted by Fern(SoCal) on February 21, 2002 at 21:57:38:

I remember my first offer I made. It was for a good friend of mine and he was looking for a residence not as an investment. I found him a totally rehabbed condo in the city of upland listed at 139,900. I looked at the comps and could not justify the price plus my friends limit was 135,000. So we put in an offer for $135,000 with $5000 credit for closing costs, prepaods, non allowables etc etc. The listing agents called me and said the seller and her son were outraged at this offer and they fealt the asking price was right. So they countered at $142,000 with $3000 closing costs. The we countered back at $135,000 no closing costs. They were angry again and did not want to counter. This was in November of this year. So I look up the property in the MLS and It closed in january for $130,000 basically my original offer. Except for the fact that the house was vacant and the owner had to pay those extra months mortgage payments. Oh well

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by Joe M.

Posted by Joe M. on February 21, 2002 at 19:07:32:

Thanks for the post Sally, got some awesome replies that will definetly pad my fall as i “get thrown on my butt”. MAn i love this site!
Keep up the low-balling! and remember dis-associated yourself emotionally as much as you can.

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on February 21, 2002 at 17:44:17:

I saw a brilliant post on this once. .I believe it was from Joe Kaiser.

He asks the realtor if his clients would be interested in receiving an “investor offer”.
If they say yes… then fire away…
How can they get mad when they ASKED for the offer…


Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by DanT

Posted by DanT on February 21, 2002 at 12:55:33:

I have had a couple like that. I offered 26k for a small 2 bedroom with a leaky roof. The owner who was asking 34k asked if I was crazy. 6 months later she lost it to forclosure. That was 3 years ago, I recently bought the property with its still leaking roof…for 10k. Glad I waited. DanT

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by Sally (WA)

Posted by Sally (WA) on February 21, 2002 at 11:39:46:

I made an offer a few years ago on a property to live in myself. The property was overpriced and the market had slowed down a bit. My offer was for $285,000 and they were asking $325,000 including all appliances, etc. They were so insulted that they counter-offered at $330,000 with no appliances. That was their way of putting me in my place :slight_smile: They were taking their lead from their super-aggressive re agent who had obviously high-balled them to get the listing.

I ended up buying a much better house that had just come on the market (we moved in 16 days after my offer, my personal fastest closing for a deal needing a new mortgage) and that other house sat on the market at its inflated price for almost a year (the couple had moved out of state and were paying two mortgages for the last 6 months). The couple then changed re agents and the new agent re-listed it at $299k and it sold a month later for $285k. So they wasted a year and still only got what I offered.

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on February 21, 2002 at 10:41:24:

Years ago I was looking to buy a place on the lake. Looked at the place with the realtor. It was listed at $129,000, way way too high at that time. So I submitted my 1st offer at $70,000. The seller went nuts and didn’t counter. Six months go by and it’s now winter. Meanwhile the seller has built another place on the lake so I think he’s goota be motivated. My 2nd offer is at $75,000. He goes ballistic again and tells the realtor that he’ll give it away before he sells it to me. LOL.

Year two it’s still on the market and the guy lowers his price asking price to $109,000. Offer number 3 comes in from me at $80,000. Still no go and the sellers mad at the realtor for presenting another offer from me. It is now starting to get funny and I’m making a game out of this.

In the back of my mind the line in the sand for me is $87,000. The third year another offer comes from me at $80,000 again. No dice. Finally the seller tells the realtor that " I can have it for $95,000. Offer #5 still comes in at $80,000. So after the fourth year of the place on the market it finally sells.

What did it sell for. Exactly $87,000 which I was willing to pay. Oh well. It doesn’t always pay to be stubborn, but boy was it fun. To this day everytime the seller sees me I say hi and he doesn’t acknowledge me.

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by Wayne Carpenter

Posted by Wayne Carpenter on February 21, 2002 at 10:08:17:

A lowball offer I once made on a vacation beach property so insulted the owners that they actually withdrew the property from the market! They lived to regret that action because the real estate market crashed shortly after and it was several years before the market came back to my original insulting offer, so it turned out good for me and bad for them.

Still, there have been a couple of times when my offers were accepted. One in particular was when I offered $30,000 on a waterfront property that had been on the market for a long time at $72,000. I made the offer to the owner on the street one day when he came by to mow the property. When he accepted my offer without so much as a counter I was so shocked I could hardly speak. But that was one of the winning cases and I only presented one offer, so I plead guilty to not sticking with my offers too. I think I would have made many more profitable purchases if I had gone back two or three times to re-submit my insult, but in a nice way of course. In the final analysis, I think we all are sales persons and getting an offer accepted is our way of simply making a sale. Your story has given me inspiration to keep working a little harder. Thanks!

Oh yes . . . about that lot. I sold it to the next door neighbor a couple of years later for $95,000 . . . the very same neighbor who ridiculed me for paying so much for such a ridiculous piece of property (it now is worth about $200K). Adding icing to that cake is the fact that I offered the owner $30,000 cash for the property and he said that he would prefer to hold the note himeself! It was not my best deal, but one of my better ones!

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by tang-0-rang

Posted by tang-0-rang on February 21, 2002 at 13:41:16:

where are you located Dan?
Todd Williamson(CO)

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by Brian Frahm

Posted by Brian Frahm on February 21, 2002 at 17:10:49:

In searching for our residence, we came across a situation in which the sellers had overpaid for the house and now wanted out. They “needed” $157,000 to break even after their realtor took his cut. The house should have brought around $150K, so we made an offer at that amount. The seller countered back at the full price again. We really liked the house and decided to counter at the $157K amount - and they rejected our offer!

Seems that their realtor talked them into holding on to the property for a while longer to capture some additional market appreciation. Funny how things work out, since we found a much better home at the same price later that day!

Re: insulting offer primes pump for someone else - Posted by MicheleCO.

Posted by MicheleCO. on February 21, 2002 at 23:28:58:

Where are you Todd? I Am in Windsor, southeast between Ft Collins and Greeley. Do you go the the Carei Meetings?