Investor Survey - Posted by Doug Pretorius

import · April 18, 2000, 8:42pm

Posted by Ben (NJ) on April 19, 2000 at 22:53:01:

I certainly see your point, however, my experience has been that when a RESPONSIBLE adult is given a healthy jumpstart they don’t suddenly become irresponsible. I grew up in an affluent neighborhood and plenty of my friends took over their family businesses. They didn’t turn into cocaine addicts overnight just because they had access to more money. To the contrary, some became MORE ambitious because they had a tremendous headstart in their careers and were able to appreciate that fact. I may be getting melodramatic here but my idea of a tragedy would be my daughter finding something she truly loves to do but being unable to do it because it doesn’t pay the bills. Could I stand idly by while she takes some miserable yet well-paying job which involves constant travelling and time away from her loved ones? It’s bad enough witnessing that when you don’t have the means to change it but I can’t imagine not doing it when you are clearly able to do so.

import · April 18, 2000, 8:42pm

Posted by Doug Pretorius on April 18, 2000 at 20:42:40:

I understand that as investors, we are in it, or at least got into it for the money. But we tend to stay in it for the ‘game.’ Many of the employee mentality ask:
“Don’t you have enough? How much more could you want?” Of course they still equate high cashflow with a lot of work. But in the end where else would they have us put our money? CDs? A savings account?

Many ‘working’ people talk about making a lot of money and then “living off the interest” but they miss the boat that investors make that dreamy ‘a lot of money’ FROM the interest!

So this questionnaire is about your goals, your views and your motives. I thought it might help to focus the investor ‘wannabes’ to have a glimpse into how real investors think.

At what point would you consider yourself financially ‘rich’ in a dollar amount?
At what point would you consider ‘stopping’, when would enough be enough?
‘Working’ people often complain that the rich are rich because of greed, that enough is never enough, that they will only be satisfied when everyone else has nothing. What are your reasons for investing? Especially if you already have more then enough to live a comfortable lifestyle.
How do you measure your investing success? In dollars? Number of investments? Return on investment? Type of investments? Making ‘the kill?’ Or helping others out of their problems with enough profit to make it worth your while?
Finally, so as not to make this a ridiculously long post and take up too much of your time, just one last question:
Why do you participate in a forum such as this? Especially if your motivation is, as many claim, purely predatory.

Thanks in advance!

import · April 19, 2000, 10:16pm

Thanks for your replies! - Posted by Doug Pretorius

Posted by Doug Pretorius on April 19, 2000 at 22:16:39:

I appreciate your replies. It’s all about what I expected: Enjoy the game, care for those you love. It’s nice to see we aren’t all out for blood

import · April 19, 2000, 6:35pm

Re: Investor Survey - Posted by George(OH)

Posted by George(OH) on April 19, 2000 at 18:35:08:

I’m only a newbie, but I would like to share my thoughts on this:

My dad is the musical conductor for the Four Tops, and he told me once that the lead singer, Levi Stubbs, told him, “You know, George, I don’t have to be travelling around and doing these tour dates. If I wanted to, I could stop TODAY, and never have to work another day in my life, and me and my family would be able to live VERY comfortably for the rest of my life!”. If I make it to that point, I would probably feel the same way. (BTW, Levi was about 48 when he told my dad this).
REI is exciting and interesting to me. I doubt that I would just “quit” because I’m financially well off. I worked an assignment back in '96 with a land acquisition company in Detroit, where we purchased the properties that were on the land that is now the Lions and Tigers (and bears, oh my!) new stadiums. That was where the bug bit me, and I haven’t been right since!
a) MONEY b) this may sound corny, but I honestly feel that I would be making a difference in the world, by helping others achieve their dreams.
Helping others while making a profit
I participate in this forum because I, like Socrates and Stephen Hawking (ok, I like astrophysics!), believe that a constant exchange of ideas and information is the BEST way of learning. Where else to get that but from the best RE site on the web?

Thanks for listening to someone not yet worthy…

George(OH)

import · April 19, 2000, 8:48am

A no-brainer for me… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on April 19, 2000 at 08:48:58:

Having achieved financial independence for myself and my wife, the logical next step is for my daughter (age-one and a half). She already has a net worth exceeding six figures and this is just the beginning. Nothing motivates me more than providing HER with financial security for the rest of her life, it permeates every move I make.(and yes I am able to do it without sacrificing any time with her at all).

import · April 18, 2000, 9:10pm

Alright, I’m game… - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on April 18, 2000 at 21:10:40:

Doug,
Here goes;

Q:“1. At what point would you consider yourself financially ‘rich’ in a dollar amount?”
A: When I have enough to take off as much time as I want to, and still have my income increase.

Q:“2. At what point would you consider ‘stopping’, when would enough be enough?”

A: When I am bored with it. Is that possible?

Q: “3. ‘Working’ people often complain that the rich are rich because of greed, that enough is never enough, that they will only be satisfied when everyone else has nothing. What are your reasons for investing? Especially if you already have more then enough to live a comfortable lifestyle.”

A:" Well, how much is enough, and what defines comfortable? I personally invest because I want FREEDOM to do what I want, when I want. Pretty simple really. PLUS, I am a control freak, and I like to be the BOSS!

Q:“4. How do you measure your investing success? In dollars? Number of investments? Return on investment? Type of investments? Making ‘the kill?’ Or helping others out of their problems with enough profit to make it worth your while?”

A: All of the above! If I am happy with the answers to all the above in a deal, then to me it is a good deal.
Then again, if I help someone and only make a couple of thousand, then to me, that is a good deal as well.
The thrill of the game is what does it for me, and that includes getting the CASH out, getting the smiles on seller/buyers faces, and my own.

Q:“Why do you participate in a forum such as this? Especially if your motivation is, as many claim, purely predatory.”

A: Because this is a place to go and discuss things with like minded people. (since most people outside REI think we are crazy anyway, or that we are crooks.) I do not consider myself to be “predatory” at all. In fact, if it looks like I can make a good deal of money, but at someones expense, then I pass on the deal. My conscience is worth more than just money.

Thats my story and I’m stickin too it,
Jim IL
Õ¿Õ

import · April 18, 2000, 9:09pm

Re: Investor Survey - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on April 18, 2000 at 21:09:17:

Doug,

Excellent question. Why am I a real estate investor. Because I like the business. I like being in the game. I like to solve problems.

I don’t count my success in dollars, although they’re very nice. I like learning new creative ideas and techniques.

I participate on this board because I enjoy the interaction between investors. I really enjoy seeing guys just a couple of years starting out who are now doing better then myself. Maybe I gave them a little insight and push. Guys like Hal Roark, Carey PA., Steve Cook,steph and a bunch of others.

Others may respond with more depth on your question or more philosophical (sp) reasons, but that’s mine.

import · April 19, 2000, 11:03am

Re: A no-brainer for me… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on April 19, 2000 at 11:03:59:

I’m right there with ya’ Ben. A reason bigger than myself, to make sure my daughter, her kids and their kids have more than enough. All while being able to spend time today.

David Alexander

import · April 19, 2000, 3:42pm

Millionaire next door says NO ! NO! NO! - Posted by JohnG

Posted by JohnG on April 19, 2000 at 15:42:34:

In the Millionaire Next Door the author says that the more you give to your kids in the material sense then the worse off they will be in future life.

I saw a program on NBC recently called “Summit at Silicon Valley” and a few of these high tech billionaires said “Of course, I won’t leave any money to my kids - what a de-motivator that would be”.
I love the sentiment - I just don’t know if I could follow through when the time comes.

import · April 19, 2000, 5:32pm

Re: Millionaire next door says NO ! NO! NO! - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on April 19, 2000 at 17:32:48:

I disagree, everyone says that. Hmmmmm, otherwise all wealthy kids would be worse off. Just a matter of teaching them the principles of money the way I see, of course I’m not there yet, my daughter is only 2 and a half. And by the way who said anything about giving it to them, without them understanding.

David Alexander

import · April 20, 2000, 9:50am

Re: Millionaire next door says NO ! NO! NO! - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on April 20, 2000 at 09:50:46:

The Millionaire Next Door does say that the most common monetary gift that millionaires give their children is to pay for their college education.

import · April 19, 2000, 6:53pm

One more thing to add… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on April 19, 2000 at 18:53:00:

no one said anything about giving it to an 18 year old either, that’s just asking for trouble. I’m thinking more like 30.

import · April 24, 2000, 12:54am

Re: Millionaire next door says NO ! NO! NO! - Posted by Mark in Oz

Posted by Mark in Oz on April 24, 2000 at 24:54:47:

That is the problem. They give their Kids a college education and not a financial education. Having come from a very wealthy familly it was odd that I had to learn most of it the hard way because my parrents didn’t teach it because they started poor and got rich rather than starting rich. They believed that was the only way. Give all you like to your children after they have proven they can manage it. Start them young and teach them all the time. How they handle money starts young. My children will inherit according to how they perform. To the one that has much much will be given to one that has nothing … they will get the most (a solid lesson to get off their buts and start appreciating how easy it is to make money.

Mark

PS in fairness my mother did help fund my first Adult business and all my childhood businesses, just not how to handle the money I could save and that was mainly because she never learned that.

Mark

import · April 19, 2000, 9:30pm

Well, I see what you’re saying but … - Posted by JohnG

Posted by JohnG on April 19, 2000 at 21:30:53:

Even at 30, is there really a good time to “give” money to your kids.
OK, so I’m 30. I have a good education; I have a great wife and 2.5 kids; a house with a mortgage and 2 slightly used and not paid for cars. And now, I get a great big gift from Daddy. So, I learn that because of an accident of birth that now I am going to get a cheque for One Million Dollars. (Donald Trump calls this the Lucky Sperm Club).

Now, keep in mind I did nothing to earn this. It is not really “my” money, but I ended up with it. What do I do ? Pay down the mortgage ? Get a bigger house and 2 newer cars ? Take a few nicer holidays ?
Its all with “free” money and somehow it changes the balance of that person’s life.

I have struggled with this a few times in my life. I have had siblings who I gave things to - one of them was my brother. Man, I wanted him to have the things that I had. So, I tried (time and time again) to set him up with one thing or another. It didn’t work. Eventually he got mad at me when I finally refused to be a banker anymore. It caused more problems between us - I had these high expectations that weren’t being fullfilled and he felt like I was pressuring him to be someone he wasn’t.

Do you know the really amazing thing I found in reading the Millionaire Next Door ? It was that they found that all these kids who became doctors - they showed a direct corelation in later life to the amount of money/house/ set up in practise etc. money they were given to the amount of financial sucess they had in future life.

I can only speak for myself. I grew up in a large family and I was not given any great financial gifts and I think if I had I would not be nearly as hungry as I am today to keep going. I worry that our kids have so much relative to what we had and they don’t seem to have the same work ethic either.

What is that saying “Give me a fish and feed me for a day. Teach me to fish and feed me for a lifetime.”

import · April 19, 2000, 10:57pm

Re: Well, I see what you’re saying but … - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on April 19, 2000 at 22:57:39:

“Give me a fish and feed me for a day. Teach me to fish and feed me for a lifetime.”

That says it all.

The difference in My Plan the way I see it is that I will teach my Daughter the fundamentals of Money, and the right side of the quadrant. Now mind you, I dont plan on forcing her hand, she will have the freedom to choose her own destination, but that again is something that only having money will afford you.

I’m guessing that your relatives that you helped didnt understand money, investing or business. Maybe next time around it will be different because you afforded them the opportunity to “Not do anything with it”.

Trump was part of that Lucky Sperm Club also as his dad was a pretty big catalyst in his start.

I too come from a very large family, 9 sisters and 5 brothers. My family had never taught me a thing about money, nor did we have any growing up.

I just think that with the wealth I’m after achieving, my daughter may if she chooses to, be able to help far more in this world, than if not.

That could be the next step helping more people, when you have the money you can do those things without you cant.

David Alexander