Is patience the answer? No...there is no answer. Get used to it. - Posted by You Probably Know Me

Posted by Matthew Chan on March 19, 2000 at 13:16:58:

My wording may be a little direct or even harsh but it really isn’t with the intention of hurting anyone. It is more like delivering the message “point blank” and hope it creates disturbances enough to relook at yourself and your situation from a very different viewpoint. How do I know this? I’ve had a more than a few people and the world-at-large hit me “point blank” during the past couple of years. Yes, it hurts but it ultimately has set me free in so many ways I don’t want to get into here.

I am not opposed to empathy and understanding. But if you look at many of the replies, you are getting TONS of it! But does that really help get to the root of the problem? The problem with listening to empathy and understanding is that people who are already challenged to making a breakthrough cling to the empathy and understanding as an excuse NOT to move forward. It goes like this… “You see? They understand my dilemma? It really is a problem that will take years to solve.” New justification is created there and all it does is further solidify why change CAN’T happen.

If it makes you feel any better, I am guilty of it as much as anyone. The difference is I am now much better at catching myself at it. Or when someone calls me on it, I am quicker to get out of denial.

But if it means anything, I have learned a great deal by reading your posts and the subsequent replies. I have a deeper understanding of things that motivate people. For that, I thank you.

Is patience the answer? No…there is no answer. Get used to it. - Posted by You Probably Know Me

Posted by You Probably Know Me on March 16, 2000 at 01:49:47:

Warning! Late night ramblings. I’m posting anon because I’m not comfortable making this public.

Most of us here are part-timers. We have JOBs, but we also have DREAMS. I have been posting here for years now, and I find I just can’t stop thinking about real estate investing. I’ve never felt such a self-sustaining desire to pursue a dream in my life. I used to wonder, throughout my younger years, where I would find my “bliss” as one of my heros, Joseph Campbell, termed it. I don’t wonder anymore.

But, I’m the classic “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” worker. I’ve come to this through the normal channels. Society has taught me the path to success is in climbing the corporate ladder. If the journey takes away my freedom, this is the expected price I must pay. If, in my journey up the ladder, I find that I cannot spend much time with my wife and children, so be it. I’ll have plenty of time to ponder this loss when I retire with a gold watch, and think back on my life as a corporate employee. The problem is, I just can’t buy it anymore. It’s as if the curtain has been pulled away to expose the Wizard of OZ.

So, I want to do this full-time. I want to thumb my nose at corporate America. Does this sound familiar to you? So, I’ve read countless suggestions on this site advising of the best ways to make the break into full-time investing. Some advise to do REI part-time, be patient, build your portfolio and break way when your REI income can meet or exceed your JOB income. Wise advice. Then, I’ve read posts that advise to just JUMP-IN. When you know your next meal and mortgage payment will have to come from a real estate deal, you WILL find one. Wise advice, as well. I can see both sides.

I chose the first option. I do my investing on the side. You see, I think it would be outright irresponsible to quit a six figure job, when I have children and a wife to support. Sounds good. As much as I am no longer one of “them” in my heart, I am no better than the corporate employees I see every workday. I rely on my JOB to provide for me and my family, just like everyone else.

Is patience the key? The answer is NO. While I’m busy making money for my employer every day, the professional investors are out looking at properties, making offers, tweaking their businesses, networking, spending quality time pursuing their dreams. A guy like me gets to spend 1/10th or 1/20th of the time the full-timers spend. And at that rate, there’s just no way to replace a six-figure income BEFORE making the break to full time.

Some may throw out a quick answer to this: Reduce your lifestyle! You’ll just have to move into a cracker-box, drive an old 1979 car, tell your children that they’ll get shoes when you can afford it, and not a day sooner! I can only answer that this is NOT a true life solution. The idea is to make our lives better, not to throw it all away and expect the family to pony-up to the bar while Dad pursues a dream. Sounds good on paper, but it’s not realistic. I would never do that to my family. If I was single, it would be a different story. But I couldn’t respect myself if I threw it all away to pursue MY dream, and let my family’s well-being fall by the wayside.

Conclusion? Well, my conclusion is that there is no answer. My company is rumbling about layoffs again. I’ve survived over a dozen of them in my career at this company. I’ve cringed through every one of them. But, recently I’ve had a secret hope that they would lay me off and force my hand. As I said, I just can’t buy into it anymore.


The other side… - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on March 20, 2000 at 11:36:35:

So don’t quit. There is a lot of sentiment on here that everyone should quit their job and invest full time. I think that is flat out wrong. I think a better statement is that everyone who really wants to and is 100% committed to doing it and feels it is right for them should quit and invest full time.
I have a full time and invest on the side. I am completely satisfied with that and have no desire to change right now. In a few years, maybe I will change my mind. Who knows? But for right now this is exactly what I want, and anyone who insists that I “fire my supervisor” is doing me a disservice. I have thought my situation through very clearly and make conscious career and lifestyle changes.
So here is my advice. Is there an intermediate change that you can make ie don’t quite your job but get off the fast track. I recently took a lesser paying job with more benefits and more time off. I could have held out for a higher paying job and gotten one I am sure. But this was a lifestyle decision. A little less money and a lot more time for my family. The cash flow my real estate more than makes up for any loss in salary.

Hope this helps,


Re: Is patience the answer? No…there is no answer. Get used to it. - Posted by Woody

Posted by Woody on March 17, 2000 at 13:40:50:

I hear ya brother,

After enjoying this site for some time I have finally been motivated to submit a follow up. I am in precisely the same situation. (before anyone starts to boo-hoo me because of my six figure salary please realize that I have worked like a lunatic for 12 years for the same employer and earn every penny!) I have been a “part time” real estate investor for 7 years in the Boston area. I’m no genius but realestate prices have skyrocketed during this time and my two family dwellings have enjoyed the benefits. The moral of this story is that I have witnessed first hand the incredible power of realestate investing. With only three rental properties I enjoy mid sixfigure equity, amazing income AND I still can’t bring myself to quit my job and devote my time to investing. I have spent the equivelent of two weeks over the past 7 years “working” in realestate and have as much equity as I do savings after working 70 hours a week for 12 years. If I had spent the same amount of time buying properties as I do commuting 3 1/2 hours a day to and from a job I hate I would be a millionaire. I guess it just seems too easy.

Thanks to all for making this site the greatest on the net and best of luck to my anonymous friend


Posted by me on March 17, 2000 at 12:09:20:



Re: Thanks to All of You. - Posted by You Probably Know Me

Posted by You Probably Know Me on March 17, 2000 at 24:51:28:

Ever been in one of those moods, maybe late at night, when you can feel something big is changing in your life. Maybe you don’t even know what it is, or how it will all play out, but the feeling can not be ignored? Well, that describes the last several weeks for me. It finally bubbled over into the post I made last night, and I apologize if it seemed like whining. But it was me fighting the pros and cons of making the move to full-time investor; the same thing most of us do before any milestone change in our lives. And yes, you probably saw some frustration in my words. I guess no decision is as easy in real life as listening to a Tony Robbins tape and telling your boss you quit. At some point, all the self-help devotees have to bow-out, stop the cliche psycho-babble, and let a real person make a real decision for themselves as best they can.

You know, you helped many more people with your suggestions that just me. I will bet my life on the fact that there are tens, if not hundreds of people who post or lurk on this site that are hashing over the same types of issues in their minds. That’s the real power of this board. A single post can affect so many lives. And yours have affected mine.

I can’t pick-out who to thank, or who’s words struck a chord, because I got some great new ideas and insights from each of you. And some friendhip, as well. None of us are really alone…we have this dream in common, don’t we?

So, to those of you who recognized some commonality in my words, and didn’t just look superficially at this as whining, I compliment you on your ability to understand. Those of you who have children understand more than those who don’t. No offense, just the facts.

Just to make it clear, I have worked very hard to get where I am. I am in a leadership position in a high-tech firm, so “thinking” isn’t foreign to me. I am not taking my career for granted as it may seem. It’s just no longer where my heart is. I do real estate deals on the side to make up for my wife’s salary. We both think it’s important for her to stay home and be a mother to our two small children. We believe too many mothers work these days to provide extra money for the family, and end-up sacrificing their children to be raised by strangers in day-care centers. I cannot fault anyone who feels they must do this, I just know it’s not for us, and I am thankful I have my real estate investing to make this possible. Too many mothers have no choice, and it tears them apart to have to work.

So, to decide to RISK losing what I have is not simple, NOR SHOULD IT BE FOR ANYONE.

Thanks again…you’ve helped me to reach a greater understanding, and I really can feel this change coming soon.


There ARE answers… - Posted by Matthew Chan

Posted by Matthew Chan on March 16, 2000 at 22:20:44:

… it is that you are choosing to be ignorant of them.

People will give assistance if you ask for it. But to simply state how you aren’t able to do it because of your family is an unreasonable amount of burden you have put on them because of your inability to take personal responsibility.

“If you were single” you would do it. What a crock. I have heard all this nonsense before. When people are single, they say they can’t succeed until they are married. They rationalize this because they don’t have the insurance of the backup income from their spouse.

From the married people with no children, they say they can’t do it because they don’t have the freedom and flexibility of when they were single.

From the married people WITH children, they say they can’t do it BECAUSE they have kids.

When they get older, they say the can’t do it because they are no longer young enough to pursue new things.

You know what? I have seen very successful people single, married with or without children, younger people, older people. They come in all sizes, ages, race, sexual orientation, religious backgrounds, and gender. You simply have to want to see them and draw inspiration from them.

I could go and on… But do you see how no matter what position you are in, there is an excuse if you want to make one?

And this bit about 6-figure income and not having the ability to do anything? Again, the issue is not having the ability to take personal responsibility.

You have set up all these mental walls for yourself, I wonder if you will ever break through. Instead of asking for ways of knocking them down, you are here building them up.

You say there is no answer. There IS an answer. The answer is what YOU choose it to be. It is pretty obvious what your choice is for the moment. You are choosing limbo and placing blame on your family for you r inability to take personal responsibility and pave your own road.

Regarding your job, are you going to “blame” your employer if they lay you off? You don’t want to hurt your family yet you sound like you are willing to put your family’s fate in their hands. So you can say that it was “their fault” and not yours. What a farce.

I hope you can reverse this course for your sake. It is never too late.

Brain business - Posted by Laure

Posted by Laure on March 16, 2000 at 22:11:19:

Carmen is right on the Money! NERVES OF STEEL. This is not easy… at least not at first. It takes raw GUTS, and not everyone is cut out for it. RE investing sounds so easy, and it can be, but not if your brain is lazy. And that’s just the facts. It’s a high intensive BRAIN business.

Laure :slight_smile:

I left my “six figures” … - Posted by CarolFL

Posted by CarolFL on March 16, 2000 at 19:04:09:

when I realized it didn’t have to look a certain way. Actually the universe was making sure the the 6 dwindled to 5 for awhile so I would wake up. But friend, you are what’s holding you back, and you are getting the payoff from doing so - Only you knows what that is.

If you really want to make a quantum leap in your life, I would encourage you to check the web site where personal development is discussed. Or email us.

We broke a lot of molds, and shook a lot of stuff loose, and are living quite different lives because of it.

If you’re serious - do something. If you’re not - quit squawking.


An answer from “The Millionaire Next Door” - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on March 16, 2000 at 18:52:43:

Great book. I hope you have read it.

I am also a part-timer and wish I was making anywhere close to 6 figures on my job. I almost wonder if the President of my company makes that much.

My reference to the Millionaire Next Door is that the book emphasizes over and over again that the average American millionaire may have a 6 figure income but has a 5 figure lifestyle. What about a person who stays in constant control of his cashflow going in and out every month so that his family can live a great middle-class lifestyle, drive decent dependable cars, live in a nice 4 bedroom house, and still manage to put 1/3 of his income from a paycheck into savings/investments every single month. Because of this cashflow management his wife can be a full-time mom. Also because of the savings and investing they have managed to accomplish he can sit back everyday and know that he has 2 years salary available to his family in short-term liquid assets. And the only debts they have is the mortgage on their home and the mortgages on their investment properties.

Now picture the high roller 6 figure income person. Big lifestyle which is totally financed by the big paycheck. What if he couldn’t work for the next 12 months because of something out of his control? How would that 6 figure income look then compared to the middle class family. The Millionaire Next Door paints a great example of two people with lifestyles similar to these.

Who could jump into full-time investing easier? The middle class person who has no consumer debt and lots of assets or the high roller who depends on his big salary to give him his fancy lifestyle?

If You Don’t Live Your Dream, Who Will? - Posted by Steve C., Houston

Posted by Steve C., Houston on March 16, 2000 at 16:31:07:

You sound confused and afraid. Which means you’re close to making a decision! That’s good.

I can’t tell from your post if you have actually invested in properties, or if you’re still just looking. If you haven’t (and I suspect that’s the case), don’t compare yourself to the “pros”. You’re just one deal away from being a pro yourself. Then they get easier, and you won’t look back.

Patience is not the answer. IMpatience is the answer. If you are impatient with where you are now in life, and where you see yourself in 10 years, that should be enough to drive you to take the next step. I emphasize step, not jump.

You could turn off the TV and spend an hour each evening and a few hours on the weekend and get what you want, without sacrificing your family. I know an investor in Houston who seldom leaves his desk (for 30+ years!) and buys and sells notes and some properties. He never sees most properties. He doesn’t even want to. If the numbers work, he does the deal.

Just do your first deal. Any deal. If it feels right and gets you pumped up, keep doing it.

What’s Important? - Posted by Doug Pretorius

Posted by Doug Pretorius on March 16, 2000 at 14:08:06:

I haven’t seen anyone say much about family, so here goes:

You might have a great job (at least as far as pay goes) but as you admitted you are sacrificing your family’s greatest need, YOU. Ask them, especially your wife, which they want more. If you don’t, you might find yourself coming home to an empty house after you’ve just been fired.

There have been some great suggestions made here by some very wise people, you’d do well to heed their advice.

Buy “Tuesdays with Morrie” (only $10 at Amazon!) and see that you are already asking your family to go without, without something money can’t buy, and that money can’t make up for.

Re: Is patience the answer? No…there is no answer. Get used to it. - Posted by Troy M

Posted by Troy M on March 16, 2000 at 10:44:48:

Just a note,

Like you, I have a healthy mortgage, car note, and a house full of children (4 and one on the way). And like you, I made six figures the last year I worked a J.O.B. And in that year, I paid over $28k to Uncle Sam in the form of fed income tax, social security extortion and medicare, fortunately my state doesn’t have an income tax or I’d have to add more to the total. $28k! It hasn’t been that long ago, I just wanted to make $28k in a year. For the great privilege of putting my life on the line (I was a commercial diver) and spending months on end away from my family, I got to pay Big Brother $28k. My point is there is a whole lot more to life than putting up big numbers on the billboard. BTW, in the last year, I’ve earned over 65k from real estate and Uncle Sam is getting MAYBE 7 or 8k outta me, I’ll let you know when I’ve finished my tax return. And no, I don’t cheat on my taxes. I’m sure some of the pro’s here do even better taxwise, probably much better. Just a thought.

Troy M

Forego the candy bar today, for two tommorow. - Posted by Rick

Posted by Rick on March 16, 2000 at 10:10:10:

Don’t quit your job - yet. First, change your mindset. I remember when I was in 3rd or 4th grade, a teacher asked the class whether we would rather have one candy bar right now, or two tommorow. This may be the most important lesson I ever learned in school.

My advise is to first re-examine your lifestyle. It’s time to become a tightwad. You do not have to live in poverty, but instead give up some of your luxuries. You don’t need them. I’ll bet you were not always making six figures. Go back to the lifestyle you had when you were making $50,000. You can still afford a decent house, a couple of late model vehicles and provide the necessities for your family. If you really care about pursuing your dream, it will be worth it and you will not have to suffer - stop trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Next, start saving every bit of money you can get your hands on. Make it a challenge to see how much you can save each month. Invest this savings in assets that you can liquidate on short notice. When you have piled up some money, I would consider several possible investments - with generating cash flow being the number one goal - while at the same time taking into account that, for right now, the amount of time you have available for finding and managing these investments is limited. You might want to leverage into some rental properties. Generally, the more units you buy in a building, the more cash flow you get for your dollars and time invested - so multiplie unit investments at this point in your investing career will generally be better than single family houses.

Also, look into buying discounted paper or making hard-money loans. With your income, and presuming that you have good credit, you should be able to borrow to leverage into these as well. For example, if someone comes to you for financing on a house, you can buy it for them (or from them), borrow out as much equity as you can, and sell it them on a lease-option or contract. You should be able to make at least a couple hundred dollars of cash flow per month on each one of these. Your cash flows should then be saved along with your other savings for future reinvestment - do not be tempted to spend it.

If you would do this consistently for several years, pretty soon, your cash flow will compound itself and you will be able to afford to quit your job if that is what you want to do, and spend even more time investing.

If you do this 40 times at $200 a month, you will have replaced your salary, and will save loads of income tax as well. Plus you are building significant assets. By the time you retire, your income will balloon (as your loans are paid off) and you will have more money than you know what to do with. You and your family will be glad you waited for that 2nd candy bar.

If you and your family are not willing to make this sacrifice, then forget thinking about becoming a full time real estate investor, and keep your job permanently.

Anyway, that’s what I did, and it has worked for me. Good luck to you, whatever you decide. Gotta go now, it’s time to eat my candy bar.

Re: Is patience the answer? No…there is no answer. Get used to it. - Posted by FJW

Posted by FJW on March 16, 2000 at 10:06:29:

Six figures huh? I feel terrible for you. I mean with six figures coming in, your choices in life are so limited. There’s almost nothing you can do in that situation, right? Until you’ve got at least high six figures coming in can’t you even think about choosing what you really want OR what will be the best for you in the long run.

Frankly, I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, unless your pi$$ing your money away. Lighten up Francis. Empower yourself. Do the best with what you have(WHICH BTW SOUNDS LIKE A LOT FROM HERE). Read the book again. I don’t think you’re getting the messages. One of which is: “Money does not solve the problems”.

All the best


Re: Is patience the answer? No…there is no answer. Get used to it. - Posted by Bill K. - FL

Posted by Bill K. - FL on March 16, 2000 at 09:45:17:

There is a saying: The closer you are to the top, the closer you are to the door. It’s amazing how so many wage slaves (employees) close to retirement get laid off. Seen it happen toooo many times. Gave up that dream a long time ago and don’t regret it. Don’t like relying on anyone but myself for my next meal. Just my 2 cents.

There is an answer - it is simple ! - Posted by JohnG

Posted by JohnG on March 16, 2000 at 09:39:53:

I beg to differ.
There is an answer.
You have chosen the answer.

It may not be the best one or the one you feel most passionate about but it is the one you chose. If you re-read your post you will see that most of it involves your job and the issues surrounding it. The fact that you are making a good wage, the fact that you cannot ask your family to sacrifice new shoes etc for your dreams and the fact that you have survived a number of corporate layoffs and then you end with the faint hope that your employer will make the decision for you and maybe they will lay you off. Then you can really get this real estate machine cranked up.

Do you see the inherent “insanity” in that line of thinking ? I can’t pursue my dreams because I have to show up at a job I dislike (maybe despise) and I would rather keep my security than risk it all on a dream and do what I would love to do. This is the great corporate fraud that you (and millions of others) have bought into and it is the greatest threat to financial and personal freedom that you will ever face.

Its like saying, gee if I was broke and just living from hand to mouth I would really make this real estate thing take off - but I have the job, the car, the mortgage, the kids teeth … ooohhh.

You sound very intelligent. You must now face the truth that you are buying the story that corporate America has sold all of us and that is not necessarily a bad thing. You have security. But, there is still a part of you that stays around this site for years and there is an inner longing for what could be instead of what is. Why not go into the woods for a week by yourself and really search your soul and decide once and for all whether you are meant to be the free spirit and the wonderful creation you were designed to be or keep things the same as they have always been. Once you make the decision then you will not need to have this conversation with yourself day after day.

Insanity ?
Thats doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Good luck on your personal quest.

Kind of a Catch?22 situation for you? - Posted by SusanL.–FL

Posted by SusanL.–FL on March 16, 2000 at 08:30:22:

The ?optimum? solution to your ?problem? would be if you were chosen for the next layloff.

Here?s a thought for you. Quietly check around on your own to see what kind of ?package? you would receive if you WERE to volunteer for the next layoff.

Who knows! It COULD be that all your years of ?servitude? with the company might qualify you for a hefty little $severence package$ (which might cover your household expenses for a year or so). That would be a nice little $cushion$ to fall back on while you were out doing what you love best—real estating!!

About 15 years ago, when IBM decided to scale back, they came up with a ?voluntary layoff? program. Those who volunteered for early retirement walked away with nice little $packages$. MANY of them came BACK to IBM (a short time later) in a ?consulting? capacity. The best of both worlds! Others started their own businesses out in the ?real? world.

It might be worth looking into.

In the meantime, here is another thought. If you have a lot of vacation time accrued, ask for Fridays or Mondays off. That way you will have THREE solid days a week to do your real estating.


Good luck! Susan

SHOCKING truth revealed! - Posted by David S

Posted by David S on March 16, 2000 at 08:22:39:

It’s just another excuse.

I’ve read similar posts here for years. Like most of them, you lack motivation and desire. Not the same as a “dream”.

There’s a huge differance in actually doing something… and talking about doing something. You make it sound like your family will lose, when the bottom line is, you think you may “louse” things up, making YOU the “lost” one. Conventional wisdom at it’s best… and it starts with “FEAR” and ends with a lack of “commitment”.

There is no answer to your situation. It’s all a mindset, your mindset. Change it or not, your call.

David S

Re: Is patience the answer? No…there is no answer. Get used to it. - Posted by JD

Posted by JD on March 16, 2000 at 07:52:52:

You start your post by grouping yourself with the other “part timers” that post on this site. I doubt very much that more than 1 in 20 part timers that post on this site have near the JOB salary that you do. This topics on this site are geared primarily toward people with little money to put down. If your not saving enough money from your JOB and investments to purchase one buy and hold 2/4 plex per year (30% down, conventionally financed) then your managing your finances improperly. IMHO