J.O.B. really bringing me down... - Posted by Jim Beavens

Posted by Leigh, Fl on April 22, 1999 at 19:41:45:

I am a single woman RE investor, doing my own deals, making decisions,and taking all the risk. The rewards far outnumber, many, many sleepless nights.

Nine years ago, I relocated from a small northern community to a metro area with a two million population. Yes, it was very fearful but I wanted a better life, and was willing to take the risk.

The first time I laid out 19K cash for a house that needed rehabbing my hands were shaking so bad while signing the closing papers, that I placed my purse down on the table in front of me in order to conceal my fear. I remember thinking “Act as if, and you will become”.

The first time I did a simultaneous closing, I was certain someone would arrest me, for whatever. I walked out of the Title Company with a 5K check thinking “fake it, until you make it”.

I have only recently become aware that if I’m not experiencing fear, then I’m not growing as an individual. I must continue getting out of my comfort zone, and stop placing self induced limitations on myself.

I wish to share a book with you that helped. “Smashing the wall of fear” by Sean Hockensmith". The book contains strategies to overcome the obstacles in your life. It can be purchased at most bookstores.

A special thanks to David S. and JPiper for sharing your fears. I don’t feel so all alone anymore, just floating around in the universe.

I deeply appreciate everyone who shared his or hers fears. Thank you.


J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Jim Beavens

Posted by Jim Beavens on April 20, 1999 at 19:03:15:

This is another one of those long and pointless posts outlining more than you’d ever want to know about a complete stranger, so feel free to skip to the next message.

I feel like I’m at a crossroads. As my recent posts have indicated, last week I finally went looking for properties. I called a few realtors on their junker houses, drove the neighborhood to look at them and their comps and get a feel for the market, and made 8 offers (all of which have been rejected, of course ;). In order to do this seemingly simple task, I called in sick for a day, and spent more time at work following up with phone calls and crunching numbers. Obviously, performance at my work suffered. I’m a computer engineer on a large microprocessor design team who’s current 4-year project is set to finally wrap up around this October, and if I’m not concentrating 100% on my work, then I just have a hard time getting anything done. My brain can only seem to heavily concentrate on one thing at a time (and as we get to crunch time on this project, it requires a heck of a lot of concentration).

Once upon a time, I had a plan. It was a good plan. After the CREOnline convention, I figured that I had until October to do a few deals to establish confidence in myself that I could be successful in this business. Then I can walk away from the glorious achievement of this big project, feeling proud about the blood, sweat and tears I put into it, and decide if I want to quit my job then or not. So over the last 6 weeks or so I’ve spent my meager time in the evenings and weekends around my 60-hour work weeks and slowly absorbed the various courses I bought at the convention. I thought I was doing pretty good, until something happened a couple weeks ago:

My annual performance review.

As I was following my boss down the hall to find an empty conference room, for the first time I was simply sickened at the thought of this man and his superiors sitting in judgement of my accomplishments. I was even further disgusted by the fact that I was completely nervous about what my review would be (my performance had definitely suffered in the last 6 months or so as my interest in real estate grew). I vowed right then and there that I would never go through another performance review (FWIW, I got a promotion and a 9.7% pay raise…great, even more money I’m going to have to make up when I quit my job, not to mention the increase in my taxes; geez, Kiyosaki’s really warped my thinking ;).

It was at this point I stepped up my REI efforts, culminating in my week of activity last week, and I’ve gotten even less done at work as a result of it. Yesterday, I received a minor reaming from my boss due to my (lack of) recent progress. So now all I have to show for my efforts in REI is more stress at work as I try to catch up (and there’s a lot on my plate right now; it’s looking like my next 2 or 3 weekends will be occupied by my J.O.B). So I quickly dove back into my J.O.B, and turned my focus once again from real estate to transistors and circuits. Before long I found myself resenting real estate and the aggravation it caused me. Fortunately, I continued coming back to this board to keep my mind focused on REI, and I’m realizing that what I’m really upset about is how my job is making my real estate investing 10 times harder than it should be.

Frankly, I’m getting to the point where I think something is going to have to go; either my J.O.B. or my real estate investing aspirations. I was really hoping that I could complete at least one deal before I quit (not counting the two 6-plexes I bought with a bunch of my own money), but I just don’t think I can last that long. And when I start thinking about what is really important to me, I’m finding that I just don’t really care about this project as much as I thought I did. I also ran through the various advantages I had come up with to sticking with my job (another bonus in a few months, more stock options and profit sharing around the first of the year, insurance for our dentist visits in a few weeks, etc), and found they just don’t match up with the depression that hits me every night before going to bed when I think about trudging in for another day at work the next morning. It’s hard to get excited about real estate when I come home at 7 or 8pm every night hungry and tired.

So what’s the point of this tirade? Again, I have no idea. I just have a feeling that my job’s days are numbered (maybe to just a few days), and the thought naturally scares me (and I guess I consider this place as good therapy for this kind of thing ;). I also think that I’m not only feeling fear, but a sense of failure as well. I had set out with a goal to get started in real estate without quitting my job, and the fact that I can’t do this makes me fearful that I’ll continue failing to reach other goals I set.

But my mind is pretty made up, despite my ridiculous monthly debt obligations of $2,700 a month (including house…gawd I wish Rich Dad Poor Dad was around 4 years ago ;). My cash reserves after redeeming my stock options would last me about 2-3 months, and I’ll roll my 401(k) into an IRA, which will have about another 4 months worth of living expenses available (albeit at a hefty tax penalty if I use any of it). So even though I haven’t done a deal yet, I’m hopeful that I have enough to continue up the learning curve on a full time basis. I talked to my wife last night (no kids yet) and fortunately she’s supportive of whatever I want to do (with the caveat that she’ll be really mad at me if our creditors take away her pickup ;).

I’ve heard many peoples’ stories of when and how they quit their jobs (SCook85, Jim IL, Matt B), but I would still welcome both words of encouragement and warnings of disaster that anyone may have. The absolute insane thought of throwing away my 5 years of college education and my 4 year old career is starting to sound not quite so insane anymore. I’m the one who will be insane before long if I keep allowing my future to be dictated by annual performance reviews.

I’ll let everyone know what I decide.

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Judy

Posted by Judy on April 24, 1999 at 15:47:39:


I can really sympathize with you – I’m at the crossroads too. Here’s my .02. Why don’t you see if you and your wife can work the REI together. That would help you in the concentration area and have someone else out there backing you up (scouting properties and doing the leg work).

In addition, she would get excited about making extra money from REI and she wouldn’t be as nervous about her truck.

Finally, I’m a newbie, but it seems to me that Lonnie deals are a little bit easier to work – maybe that’s the way for you to start without a lot of stress. You could even borrow against your 401(k), bonus, etc.

Just my thoughts – Lots of Luck


Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Robert McNeely

Posted by Robert McNeely on April 23, 1999 at 17:20:48:

I have now been downsized for 6 months! I can honestly say it has been the best time I have had in the last few years. I knew that REI was for me and that I needed the push I could not give myself. When the downsizing came, I was so excited. You will be able to make it, if you work out a plan of action. Good Luck & God will bless!

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Todd(WI)

Posted by Todd(WI) on April 23, 1999 at 09:40:10:

It seems your message hit a common thread among many of the people here, both wanting to quit and having already “jumped”, I’ve been fighting the exact same dilemma myself for the last three years. I bought CS as a freshman in college, and immediately bought a crappy rental with about 100/month positive cash flow. I also bought a home last year for the small family I’ve just started. I’ll be graduating with by EE this May, and all of my classmates are convinced I’m NUTS! I’ve turned down 3 permanent engineering positions and instead opted for a 6 month contract position because I don’t even want to THINK being tied down to a JOB. Now, I’m in no position financially to ‘jump in’ right now but I’ve made no plans to buy anything new with my dramatic increase in salary (Part time work in college teaches you to cut corners) I still feel the pull to give up especially when my classmates are yakking about the new cars, houses, toys,etc… that they are getting great deals on beacuse they are new gradutes, but Kiyosaki has corrupted my thinking and all I hear is LIABILITES, LIABILITIES, LIABILITIES…
Anyway, I guess your rambling post triggered one of my own, but I would like to say that your feelings are shared by many of us here.
Good Luck and keep on ‘pluggin away’

PS I’ve found in my limited experience that job reviews seldom correspond to actual performance!

I hear you too… - Posted by Baltimore BirdDog

Posted by Baltimore BirdDog on April 22, 1999 at 16:10:46:


I come to work every day with a big Cheshire grin on my face for the sole reason that in REI I’ve discovered something which will provide me freedom that not even the big boys upstairs will ever enjoy (think of THAT the next time your boss calls you into his office). In addition, I go to work complete with the knowledge and the confidence that if I were fired or laid off tomorrow, I’d be OK. I might struggle for a while financially (then again, I might not ; )), but I’d be OK. Having stared into the financial abyss and lived, having no money or credit doesn’t bother me as much as it once did. Don’t get me wrong. It’s still no picnic, and as much as I want to skedaddle, other priorities which depend on me for income, namely my fiancee and the upcoming nuptials, quell my desire to do so immediately. Like you, I’m building a cash reserve of at least 12 months expenses. To me, after having rummaged around the apartment for enough change to buy a 2-liter of 99-cent Tahitian Treat at the 7-11, it’s the only way to fly. I’m sure we’ll both continue to rue the days when we can’t spend a minute with our true love, but be patient and hang in there. Our successes will be that much sweeter when they come. Adios!


P.S. I’m pretty sure we met in Dallas. Weren’t you sitting next to me at Hooters with Steve Cook, Dan Fink, Phil Fernandez, Shannon the waitress, Steve from Massachusetts, and Jen from Nebraska? Good to hear from you again and rock on!

Inspired by you, JPiper, & everyone… - Posted by FJW

Posted by FJW on April 22, 1999 at 11:39:28:


Your inner conflict, JPiper’s & everyones posts, inspired me to find this and pull it out of my files. I used to have it hanging on the wall in front of me. It is again. I’m sure many of you have read this before. For those who haven’t, I hope you can use it.

By Vince Lombardi (the late, great Green Bay Packers coach)

"Winning is not a sometime thing; it’s an all-the-time thing. You don’t win once in a while, you don’t do things right once in a while, you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

"There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game and that is first place. I have finished second twice in my time at Green Bay and I don’t ever want to finish second again. There is a second place bowl game, but it is a game for losers played by losers. It is and always has been an American zeal to be first in anything we do and to win and to win and to win.

"Every time a football player goes out to ply his trade he’s got to play from the ground up-from th soles of his feet right up to his head. Every inch of him has to play. Some guys play with their heads. That’s O.K. You’ve got to be smart to be No. 1 in any business. But more important; you’ve got to play with your heart-with every fiber of your body. If you’re lucky enough to find a guy with a lot of head AND a lot of heart, he’s never going to come off the field second.

"Running a football team is no different from running any other kind of organization-any army, a political party, a business. The principles are the same. The object is to win-to beat the other guy. Maybe that sounds hard or cruel. I don’t think it is.

"It’s a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive games draw the most competitive men. That’s why they’re there-to compete. They know the rules and the objectives when the get in the game. The objective is to win-fairly, squarely, decently, by the rules-but to win.

"And in truth, I’ve never known a man worth his salt who in the long run, deep down in his heart, didn’t appreciate the grind, the discipline. There is something in good men that really yearns for, needs, discipline and the harsh reality of head-to-head combat.

“I don’t say these things because I believe in the ‘brute’ nature of man or that men must be brutalized to be combative. I believe in God, and I believe in human decency. But I firmly believe that any man’s fines hour-his greatest fulfillment to all he holds dear-is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.”

Thank you Jim Beavens, Jpiper, JP and Terry, and all. This certainly is a special forum and site.


Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Alex Gurevich, TX

Posted by Alex Gurevich, TX on April 22, 1999 at 10:50:31:

It’s all coming back to me now. In 1991, a recent immigrant to U.S., I took my 1st real estate seminar and got infected with the r.e. virus. I could smell those real estate riches, but I had to get started part time, since my wife was staying home with 2 kids. I was a senior software developer for 13 years working for high tech companies. In 1994 I was laid off from IBM contract and tried to stay in r.e. full fime. I had several rental properties, however, it was not enough. It kept me afloat for about 9 months. I did not have a plan. My knowledge was limited to pretty much buying rentals, or buying fixers. Unfortunately, I lacked confidence and true knowledge and I always overpaid for fixers even though I was in a favorable depressed market, buying at auctions, from banks, FDIC, RTC, etc. I did get a few good buys, but mostly I overpaid, so I could not sell them for profit right away, and I had to keep them as rental properties. The funny thing, by '97 I’d been doing r.e. for about 6 years, and I thought I knew it all.

For all these years I had high aspirations about the r.e. career. My performance at work suffered the same way yours does today, because my head was constantly occupied with the r.e. thing. Back in 93-94 I had a goal to accumulate certain number of rentals within 3-4 years term and get myself in a position to quit the job and be able to live on rental cash flow. That just was not happening. The market has changed from depressed to very active, so I could not buy properties as easy or with cash flows I wanted. I discovered the cash flow from rentals was not dependable, rental market had changed quite a bit over years. Great for a few months or even a year, and then a major bill, or damage, too many new apartments built, or a long period of multiple vacancies that would put me in a hole. I knew something was wrong, but I did not know what it was.

That was until I heard a blurb of Ron Legrand’s presentation. That turned me again to learning new ideas and teqniques. In '97 I went to see his presentation and bought his materials. It was also about the time I stumbled onto CREOL and started learning from pros here,and buying courses.

In summer '97 the start up company I was working for was shut down, everybody was laid off. At the time I had a comfortable $75K salary plus benefits, and was heavily loaded with consumer debt. I knew I could command pretty good pay in a high tech field. I also knew if the R.E. was to be, it was to be then and there at any cost. So the lay off was my “kick in the pants.”

Well, it’s been a little under 2 years. Both very hard and extremely exciting. My family’s standard of living has gone down for a while and still is lower than what we used to enjoy. At times things looked really horrible, the temptation and financial pressures were high to go back on the JOB. As a result of not always having steady paychecks, my credit has gone from A+ to C-. At some point due to a cash flow crunch, I came within 2 weeks from losing 5 of my rental properties to foreclosure; about $600K value with $200K in equity - talk about having a bad day. But between my wife and me we found it possible to stick to our dreams. I remember Zig Ziglar saying: “sometimes you work, and work, and work, and you’re undergoing some difficulties along the way, even some poverty, before things improve come to fruition.”

Things are looking up now. I’ve done about 4-5 times more volume of buying than in my prior 6 years part time. I’ve created quite a stream of passive income from owner financed deals, that is more dependable than rentals, although I still have some apartment units from old days. Once in a while I get a big chunk of cash when a buyer closes.

There’s still a long way to go to the dreams we have.

Jim, have a plan of actions, goals, and deadlines. But understand also it may take some time before you really figure out what you are doing. Things may get worse for your family before they get better. On the other hand, there are guys like Steve Cook, who quits his job and puts together 25 deals in 6 months - what an inspiration to all of us. You may be a quick starter, you know better.

There’s no good or bad choice, but there’s one that’s right for you.

Good luck.

Wow… - Posted by Jim Beavens

Posted by Jim Beavens on April 21, 1999 at 13:30:16:

I’m speechless. I just want to thank everybody for their kind words. Most everybody had a comment that I would like to respond to personally, but doing so would take all day. =) (I’ll get to a few of you soon, though).

As it turns out, I found out I can’t quit this very minute (darn ;), because I need to enroll with my employer’s brokerage before I can redeem my stock options, which will probably take a couple weeks for the paperwork. This means I will have to hunker down and just do the big task that I currently have in front of me at my job for the next few weeks.

Knowing my past history, this most likely means that I will stay on for at least a couple more months. My job goes in cycles, where things will be fairly laid back for a couple months, and then as the end of the quarter or some other milestone looms, there’s a bunch of things that need to be done, and I work my butt off to do it all. Every time I get over one of those humps, I come out of it more exhausted, and I get more resentful the next time it happens. I’m in one of those situations now, and I’ve just about had it (which is where my post came from yesterday ;). But unfortunately I don’t quite have all my ducks lined up, so I’ll just have to get over this latest hump one more time. And REI will probably take a back seat during this time.

So now I’m in the process of getting everything ready for the next time this happens; and when it does, I have a feeling I’m going to take the plunge completely. First I’m going to redeem my stock options immediately. I’ve heard stock options referred to as “golden handcuffs”, and boy ain’t that the truth. I don’t know how many times I’ve thought, “but if I wait just a couple more months they’ll be worth more!”. Also, if I could hold on until next April, I would about double my current number of options. So I’ve decided I’m going to simply cash them in and stop worrying about them; they’re just another excuse that always seems to hold me back. The second thing I’m doing is stopping my 401(k) contributions. I don’t know why I didn’t do this sooner, but it’s something that ties me to the conventional thinking of working for 40 years and retiring (and planning to be broke as well, according to Kiyosaki ;). With the realization that my days here are numbered and that I may need to access this cash in the not-too-distant future, I figure I might as well put the money I’m putting there to use by further paying down my debt.

These may be minor things, but I think they’re the first threads that are being cut from this binding thing called a J.O.B, and it feels good. I’m going to continue pondering the thought of being unemployed with as rational of a mind as I can muster over the next few weeks (must…hold…off…job-induced insanity…a little…bit…longer…;), and then make a decision.

Thanks again for everyone’s help. I’ll keep you all posted.

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Matt M

Posted by Matt M on April 21, 1999 at 13:19:39:

I work as a software developer for a large company. I have been slowly learning REI from books and people at this site. I have dabbled in the real estate market a little bit. But I have not been successful as of yet. I think I always knew, in the back of my mind, that I already had a good job. I think my success at my career has limited my will to do something else. Well, three weeks ago the company I work for decided to sell out. They agreed to let an even bigger company buy us out. Eliminate the competition. Now, I think to myself, is this why I went to college? Is this why I get up early every morning, sit in traffic, work hard all day? To come home tired, knowing I will have to do the same process again in the morning. And all for a company that will send two thirds of it’s employees to the unemployment line. This is why I tried so hard to impress people? I have not yet learned my fate. I may be offered a new job, or I will be fired. My wife and I are expecting our first child in four weeks. I have a mortgage and bills to think about. It sickens me to think how hard I have worked only to be put in the position that I am in. The CEO of my company walks away from this deal with 300 million dollars. I have worked hard for this company and very well may walk away from this deal hearing “take a number” at the unemployment line. Who knows, this may work out to be a life changing event for me. Maybe I’ll get fired and be able to focus 100% of my energy of REI. My point in telling you this is not for sympathy. I have learned a very important lesson this past month and this is the perfect opportunity to share it. I have been walking around the past few years thinking “I’m in control of my destiny”. “I’m in control of my fate. If I work hard at my job, in twenty years I’ll be promoted several times and I’ll be making great money and everything will work out great”. Now, I’ve come to realize that I was just a pawn. I was used so that the big guys could make their millions. I was never in full control of my own fate. Corporate America shows no loyality. Money is everything. You can be sold out just like I was. You have to ask yourself this question. “Am I in control of my destiny”. Chances are you will say no. And if thats the case, and you have the will power to do something about it and stay focused, I say you should find away to work for yourself and your family and not for the suits upstairs. I think REI is great way to accomplish that. I hope I get fired.

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Matthew Chan

Posted by Matthew Chan on April 21, 1999 at 12:01:32:


I am also involved in the computer tech business but it sounds like from a different end of it. Have you considered contract work? I’ve been doing it since 1995 when I left the corporate world. It can give you the best of both worlds as you transition into REI. You control your schedule and any overtime that you work is compensated. Many assignments are limited in duration. I contracted 2 to 3 weeks a month for 3 years until last year where I was finally able to maneuver my finances and income to the point where I contract once a month.

Guess what I do with the other 3 weeks? Yes!! REI activities! It is great having that balance now. Like you, once I get some successes under my belt, the one week a month goes away completely!

Like the J.O.B., I know people who are consumed by contracting to the point where it may as well be a JOB. They don’t invest any of their time in self-development or learning. They just keep working because they want to make the fees. I think that is a short-sighted approach.

I will never say I would never go back to a JOB but I can assure it is the very last alternative and ONLY if I am getting ready to live on the streets and very hungry.

Well, I hope that helps a little. You can email me if you want to know about the contracting alternative.

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Rich

Posted by Rich on April 21, 1999 at 10:38:51:

I’ve never had your problem, because I never let a J.O.B. get a strangle hold on me. I’ve managed to fly by the seat of my pants most of my life. . .with little regret. It gets a little hairy when you have bills that are due and no visable means of paying them, but I’ve managed to shake some money loose in the nick of time. I wouldn’t recommend this lifestyle to everyone (Ativan helps). I’ve bought and sold everything from cars, houses, antiques, you name it, I’ve owned two restaurants, and I’ve even sold 2 ambulances on Ebay. My advice is similar to others. Do your homework; make sure it’s what you want to do (the grass is always greener anywhere else); and don’t burn your bridges. Good luck in what ever you decide. - Rich

12 Step group to REI Freedom! - Posted by CarolFL

Posted by CarolFL on April 21, 1999 at 10:35:05:

Maybe that’s what we need to start.

Jim, you have posted the post I “wudduv” if I’d “dared”.

In fact, my hubby/partner make me make a pact with him the other night : we determined an additional cash flow level over and above our current holdings at which I would give notice.

Now, it was a pretty aggressive goal - but we now have a specific figure in mind, agreed upon, and committed to.

Like most folks, I tend to forget how powerful TRUE goalsetting is: write it down, commit to it, make and plan and work it … then I find that the Universe so often smiles down on us and the serendipitous falls in our laps.

Maybe we can pick a night to meet in the chat room - or just keep threads like this one going from time to time.

Jim, and all others - you have my support.
JAckie, Phil and those who are already there - we thank you for yours!


Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on April 21, 1999 at 10:25:54:

2 Quick thoughts:

  1. Re-read the part of Rich Dad, Poor Dad where he talks about working at IBM (I think??). Anyway, he talks about how cranked he was at his job… just so he could get where he waned to be. It is all a matter of attitude. (Also, if you have Cash Flow Quadrant, re-read the part early in the book where he talks about being homeless. Talk about sacrificing the present to get exactly where you want to be in the future…)

  2. Relating your situation to mine. I too dream of quitting my J.O.B. one day. (And yes, there ARE days when I dream of quitting it NOW!!! hehe). But most days I look at it as a vehicle to get deals done. I have a very nice salary from my J.O.B. (especially with all the tax bennie my properties throw off), I have been with this company 2 years and in the industry 11. Read: bankers LOVE me. But all this would change if I left my J.O.B. So I am making hay while the sun shines. Hoope this helps…


Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on April 21, 1999 at 10:11:08:

Very good post Jim?..I would hardly describe it as “pointless”. You have communicated your thoughts, feelings, and concerns very well regarding an issue that many face currently, or have faced in the past. In the end, we are all different people, so this decision of yours is a very personal one. I know you’re up to the task though, from having read your post.

The logical decision is to stay where you are, build yourself financially toward the day you leave. Make a few deals, build your knowledge?..sort of make a natural evolution. It’s the decision that most people are comfortable with.

There another theory though. Sometimes a door has to close before a new door can open. When this new door opens, everything around you shifts in your favor, because there is some invisible factor out there that knows when you have intention?.when your bait has been cast. People and events show up in your life that seem to help and propel you in the direction you have chosen. Personally I’ve never been in your exact position?..I’ve never had the fortune or misfortune to have had a salaried job. But I know a little about change, the fears that accompany it, and about focus.

I’ve never had the ability to focus on more than one thing. I’ve always gone with my heart, not logic, much to the concern of my relatives and friends. This has caused me to make some abrupt changes in my life, changes that caused me to have to get rid of my “hole cards”, those things in your life that you can fall back on. I can tell you that from my perspective today as I look back that it has all been worth it to me. And I’m not referring to financially?.but that feeling of satisfaction that my hat has been in the ring.

I can also tell you about times that have been difficult because of some of the changes I have made?.difficult circumstances that have arisen out of my lack of “hole cards”. But today I understand one thing. That the things that most of us fear surround the loss of possessions that accompanies failure. Most of those things have little meaning when you really think about it. When you look back over time the possession that was your most prized one years ago is gone. But what ALWAYS remains with you is YOU, your heart. I have chosen to honor that in my actions, and have never regretted it even with the difficulties that have confronted me over the years.

You’ll make the right decision for you Jim. It’s a personal decision that only you can make. My only advice would be to honor those inner feelings that you have regarding your situation. Everything in life is not always “logical”.


it doesn’t stop there… - Posted by David S

Posted by David S on April 21, 1999 at 09:21:09:

I’ve been active in the RE business for just over 20 yrs. I also own a retail business, open 7 days every week for the past 15 yrs.
In the past 3-4 yrs, I’ve had the same feelings about the JOB. I thought owning a business meant that you were able to come and go when you please… I found out years ago that I don’t own a business, I own a JOB.

I had to plan my exit strategy from this JOB. The only thing was, I didn’t want to give up the income this business affords. So, with help from many authors and friends here, I came across the book “The E-Myth”.

With my knew knowledge, I found a way to get out of day to day in my business. The costs are high. I felt like I had lost my best friend. I work one day per week now and I have to admit, my sales volumes are at an all time high without me even being there.

It doesn’t stop there. With all this “extra” time, I went on a buying rampage, not all bad, but I found myself spinning wheels in a small market. There just isn’t enough going on to keep my interest. Not enough opportunity.

So I had to look for answers to yet another problem; I want more opportunities to make more money. My conclusion was simple; move to a larger, growing area, and do it now.

I went on a search of areas that I am somewhat familar with. I concluded, based on statistics, that I would relocate to the Augusta Georgia area, about 65 miles from my current location. 500k metro population (Richmond/Columbia county) vs 19k countywide population here.

Thursday, 4-22, I close on a townhome in Augusta that I located in the paper. Not a great deal, but 5k under market and only 18 months old. I also have a full price offer on my personal residence and I plan to relocate no later than 5-21.

My point is that there is always the element of fear. Fear of the unknown. You can make it positive or negative. I can hardly wait to jump in the market where not one person knows me or what I am doing. Makes what little hair left on top of my head stand up when I think of it. I’m excited about the chance to prove to myself that I can do anything I want, anywhere I want.

Give some thought to the security issues, most of which are usually short term nowadays. None of us are guaranteed success, only the opportunity to make things happen for ourselves. It’s all about knowledge, action, and the elimination of risk.

David S

I could have written this post… - Posted by rayrick

Posted by rayrick on April 21, 1999 at 09:04:23:

I can relate to your dilemma so completely that words don’t do it justice. Try this on for size: I’m considering bagging the career for which I spent 6 years getting a Ph.D. and at which I have toiled for an additional 6 years hence. I’m consumed by my desire to do REI and my frustration over how tough it is when one has other commitments during all the business hours of the week. My performance at work has suffered considerably, leaving me with a near constant gnawing feeling of guilt. I know I must find balance between my dual careers, but I don’t have it now. And I DO have kids, 2 small ones.

Anyway, we’ve been getting good advice here. Make a plan. Accumulate a war-chest. Do the best job you can do at work, since, after all, they ARE still paying you. And lay the goundwork for a smooth exit.

So, not a lot of new info in this post; I just wanted to express my solidarity. I’m hanging in the old J.O.B. for at least another 6 months, because I’ve got commitments to fulfill and I know that I’m not good enough at this stuff yet to take the punge full time.
But after that, things get fuzzier. Could well be full-time REI for me. Good luck with your struggle, Jim, and know that I am with you!


Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down…I FIRED My Boss - Posted by JohnB_NJ

Posted by JohnB_NJ on April 21, 1999 at 09:00:19:


I know how you feel. I was doing REI for 2 years part time. I picked up a SFH rental here and there. But i missed out on the really good deals. So, I took the plunge and quit Dec. 30, 1998. I had a good paying job as an electrical engineer, but I worked 10 hours a day and made my boss rich. I said to myself, “Hey, I will make a biz plan and get to work for myself.” I turn my garage into an office. I took all the games off the computer, bought a fax machine and started to run my ads. I called the realtors in the area and gave them my buying criteria. Believe me, I was scared. Nothing was happening for me for several weeks. I made offers on houses that were rejected, but after Dallas, things started to happen. I had been energized by the people like Steve Cook, Jim Piper, Scott Britton, Jackie (from Dallas) and Ron LeGrand. When I got home from Dallas, I said, “No more excuses, this stuff will work here!” And no sooner did I think positive that positive things started to happend. REaltors were faxing MLS sheets to me and calling me! My offer on a bank foreclosure was excepted. My first sandwich L/O came togethor so nicely. Then another offer was accepted. These things would not have happened if I didn’t focus on them. So, I am glad I fired my boss.
Now, i am not saying that you should “fire your boss”. I thought about my plan for about a year. I researched this web site for almost a year before I ever posted. I read everything I could get my hands on.
But what ever you decide to do, you have a support group here. I do not feel alone and when I get confused, I know I have colleagues right here that are glad to help me. And I glad to pass on what I have learned.
I wish you the best of luck!


Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Irwin

Posted by Irwin on April 21, 1999 at 07:17:12:

I haven’t read your prior posts, but this one is excellent in describing the conflict that occurs when a person tries to carry on two careers at the same time. It’s almost impossible to be successful in r/e when you do it as a sideline, UNLESS, you have a partner who is doing it full time,which you don’t.
I have a few suggestions that might help (I hope). First, even though you are anxious to jump in, you’re young and have time to maneuver. I don’t think the real estate market is going to disappear before the end of the year. In other words, it will still be there for you in 6-9 months. I would use that time to learn to live more frugally, (that’s a euphemism for miserly) get your debt paid off and get your monthly living expenses down to the minimum. Also, you obviously have a good paying job and you should be able to stash a lot more cash than you have up until now so you can leave your 401k alone. Taxes on r/e deals are bad enough, don’t create more problems. Keep studying techniques, and most importantly, market values in your city. You might accidentally stumble into a flip that puts an extra few thousand into your war chest while you still have your job. What a coup that would be.
Also, I highly recommend a book called: DIE BROKE, by Stephen M. Pollan. It’s not about real estate investing per se, but it is an excellent book about how to financially plan your life, including “quitting” the J.O.B. Good Luck.

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Sandy FL

Posted by Sandy FL on April 21, 1999 at 07:05:03:

I feel ya, Bro. My boss has noticed a “change” in me, also. Amazingly, alot of it has happenned since the convention in March. I just can’t hide the fact that I am unhappy working for the government (paying taxes, ouch). I know there is a difference in my thinking. My boss also approached me about my yearly performance review. Ugh. Filling out the same forms and going through the same motions, even for a raise, I am really not jazzed about it. I would almost venture to say that many of us get “Short-Timers Syndrome”, meaning we act up and do little self defeating things (like coming in consistently late, etc) when our hearts desire is really to quit that J.O.B.

There was a day I was willing to walk out and never come back if they were going to insist on making me doing something that was against their own policies, and they backed down in that disagreement (darn it). But I am like you, I do not want to just quit cold turkey and cause any family discomfort, I would like to know the bills will be paid and the insurance continued … other than that, I know once I did it it would be sink or swim, and I will swim. Once I leave, I leave. I wouldn’t be able to get myself go back to my present job … I’d be a bartender first. LOL

I know in this post I am just thinking out loud… but here is the bottom line. Why don’t all of us who want to quit our jobs, chunk it down. In other words, what will have to happen before you know you are ready? For me, it might be a list like this: 1. prepay health insurance for 3 months prior to quitting 2. Obtain $1000/ mo cash flow free and clear from RE Investments, and so on. When you chunk it down like this list, it is hard to make it look very complicated. You will know when you are there. And remember like Kiyosaki said, once you leave the Rat Race, you have much more time (and fun) chasing deals, and therefore your income goes up even more in the FastTrack.

Thanks for bringing this up, Jim. Alot of us “Self Unemployed- WannaBe’s” can relate! When you finally quit we will all be here to have one giant cyber-party with you :slight_smile:

Sandy FL