J.O.B. really bringing me down... - Posted by Jim Beavens

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Tim (Atlanta)

Posted by Tim (Atlanta) on April 21, 1999 at 06:52:58:

Have you thought about going into consulting?

Over 3 years ago, I was in a J.O.B. that had reasonable pay and pretty good benefits (I know the worst kind of JOB). In order to free up more time (and money) I started my own computer consulting firm. I split time between two different clients, never working more than 40 hours a week. The best part is that you can get going with your REI. The increased income can certainly help buying properties and getting financed. You can also cut your hours down to spend more time looking for deals.

Just my .02

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Millie I.

Posted by Millie I. on April 21, 1999 at 24:55:40:

Jim,

I can see your pain and struggle. I know exactly how you feel. I was a computer systems analyst before. I know how much pressure a project can put on you, epecially with the Y2K around the corner.

It is not easy for you to see things clearly at times like this. It is normal to feel depressed, and want to quit either the job or RE when involvement in both tears you apart. When faced with conflicts that cause me severe psychological and emotional pain, I have taught myself to ‘block off the emotion’ and let ‘logic take over’ and direct me to do the right thing.

Be pratical, to quit your job, you will need $X to live on and pay your bills (Medical?) for about 12 months before your RE deals yield enough profit to support your household. So use your common sense, decide how long you will have to stay on the job to raise that money. Don’t forget to clear your credit and raise some capital for investment. If you need a line of credit from your house, get it while you have a job. It will be hard to get a loan when you are unemployed. Plan your exit carefully, so that you would not be surprised later.

Meanwhile, if you have to stay on your job for X months to prepare yourself, don’t torture yourself by thinking of RE on the job. It will make you very unhappy and resentful. I am sure you collect a pretty handsome paycheck. Give them their money’s worth and do a good job. Tell yourself that you’ve got what it takes to handle both, your job in the daytime, and RE at night and weekends. Be at peace in your heart. You need this job to finance your exit, so just grin and bear it, this is just a stepping stone. Meanwhile, continue to educate yourself, and do RE on the side. Your money will grow, so will your RE knowledge and experience. When the time is ripe, then quit with confidence, with reasonable cash reserve, and sufficient knowledge and experience to call Real Estate Investment your new full time job.

Until then, be happy that you have found your dream, and that you have a well paid job to finance that dream.

Smile, you are a winner,
Millie I.

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Tim

Posted by Tim on April 20, 1999 at 23:10:05:

I too am an engineer and decided to quit my job after 6 years of college education. I am very happy with the decison I made. My only regret is though not having quit my job years ago.

wishing you lots of success
Tim

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by johnman

Posted by johnman on April 20, 1999 at 21:57:37:

Jim,

Hang in there buddy. I understand your frustrations. It’s very normal to feel that way. I am about to take the plunge here shortly. My job isn’t demanding at all but I’m away from home. My home is Arlington, TX and I’m in Savannah, GA. I work the night shift.

The responses to your post are wonderful. I do have a plan to follow and with the help of the investment group in Dallas, I will make a smooth transition from JOB to having fun.

Take care of your job but don’t blame RE if you can’t. Timing is everything and you are the one who would know when to say goodbye to the JOB.

Good luck,

Johnman

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Carmen

Posted by Carmen on April 20, 1999 at 21:34:44:

Some great advice below.

We have taken a 3/4 plunge into the real estate. Waiting my turn - though I do like my J.O.B. a lot, it will never pay me what R.E.I. will. Plus, I’ve owned my own business before, so it’s just a matter of time before I start getting frustrated with the corporate culture. I just went part-time (at the same pay, in lieu of a raise). Yet sometimes I too feel that I should continue to “use” my degrees. I have an advanced degree (MBA/Finance) and spent a lot of time and money getting it - and it’s hard not to feel guilty for not “using” it in the “conventional” way.

My husband and I had a pretty steep learning curve - I had been doing a lot of reading, but it’s not the same. My husband went through the same thing you did, and one day just up and quit his job after a pointless meeting about how he was not “enthusiastic” enough (?!) about a project. He realized he had no passion left for it at all, and that RE was eating up his time. He went cold turkey - within 2 weeks of starting to read about REI. We were scared - we had a lot less to live on, and took out a loan right before he quit so we could survive 2 months without a second check. We have no kids yet together, but much higher monthly expenses, what with student loans and child support.

We’re now on week 5 of our 2-month reprieve. It took us this long to get a closing, but now we have more deals than we can handle, and we’re running out of time to do them all!

We were completely unorganized, since the quitting was so sudden (to me), but we’ve done fine. If I had it to do over, the best thing would be, like was mentioned before, plan the work. And always have an exit strategy for the properties - we have 3 contingency plans for each one. 1) Prefer to buy low, rent out, with cashflow (little if any fixup) 2) Rehab and retail or 3) if we run out of cash to rehab, prehab and retail! We’re not wedded to one outcome. Start advertising the moment you get posession. If someone offers me less $ for a half-done house, I’m out of there. Have not done L/Os yet, but there’s $$ in them thar hills too.

Whatever you decide, good luck, don’t let the turkeys get you down, and believe it - it will happen for you.

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Jackie in Dallas

Posted by Jackie in Dallas on April 20, 1999 at 20:51:42:

Three years ago I was at the same crossroad.
I felt that if I was going to work “that” hard for someone else and make them tons of money - I should be working “that” hard for me and my family.

I had only done a few flips but took the big plunge and quit my job as the national sales manager for a television production company.

I can tell you that unless you have a plan - a real estate business plan - you will probably just sit around the house for a few days or weeks or months and say to yourself “now what?”

So my advice to you is have a clear cut plan of action for after you leave your job - set goals and decide how you plan to achieve them. You’ll need a marketing budget for running ads, printing flyers, and postage. Are you going to recruit bird dogs - where? how?

Decide ( and write it down) what you are going to do on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. What will you do in the mornings, afernoons? When does the foreclsoure list come out? How will you get it? When does the red tag list come out? How will you get it? Then what will you do with it? Do you plan to call ads in the newspaper? Set the times you will call - maybe
7 - 8 in the evenings or only on Saturdays? Are you going to do Lonnie deals? What parks are close to you? You can find out on bigbook.com - …

You get the idea - make a plan then work the plan.

Know the feeling… - Posted by JHyre in Ohio

Posted by JHyre in Ohio on April 20, 1999 at 20:36:01:

Jim,

I’ve been way busy at work and travelling on the weekends. For the last 3 weeks, I’ve done way less RE prospecting than I would have liked. To complicate things, I like my job and really like my 2 bosses. Ever since I decided that RE is the way to go (right around March 4th…), I’ve been quite distracted. Can’t have that. I’ve got 1 kid and another on the way. Add that to the fact that I like my work and my 2 direct reports = I won’t be quitting in the near future. So I’ve gotta make due with the cards I’ve drawn. I got the internet at home so I won’t be using it to distract me at work. My employers deserve excellent performance and I will honor that obligation. I’ll look for propeties on the weekends and at night whenever possible. I have several advantages: A phenominal wife who comes from a family of entrepeneurs and a stubborn streak a mile wide. It may take awhile to get my stride, but I’m in it for the long haul. The wife has some time in spite of 2 kids, a dog and a cat, so that’ll help as well. Also, a very dear friend left his job recently to pursue othe interests- including RE. We’ll be working together. I have credit (harder to get w/o job) and he has time (hard to get with a job!).

Good news- finally found a MH park that’ll let me do Lonnie deals in it. I’m looking for homes and have found several good leads- now just to make it happen. L/O search is a bit slowed given my travel schedule, but this’ll be the first weekend in a month that I’ll be in town- guess what I’ll be doing!

Jim, you’ve got a lot of support and empathy from this group. You’ll make it happen. Me, I’m too stubborn to quit- for once my genetic (thanks Dad!) bullheadedness will work for me. Having a cheering section at home and online sure doesn’t hurt.

Good luck, you’ll do the right thing.

John Hyre

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on April 20, 1999 at 20:03:21:

Hi Jim,

Good meeting you at the convention.

Hmmm. You only have 168 hours a week to make money one way or the other. Unfortunetly you are using a good portion of that time with you JOB. Probably not only when you’re at the job, but also thinking about it away from where you work.

Don’t give up your real estate dreams. If you did that would be a real shame. In the beginning it can be slow, like where is my first deal. After awhile deals start falling in your lap. Why, maybe because after getting that first deal you become so excited that you are focused for the next.

I’ve never had a JOB, but I can imagine that it is very scary to leave something that you are used to for the unknown. Right know Jim you are at the crossroads. You are building your knowledge base for real estate investing, but the doubts start creeping into your mind set. Don’t let all of that new knowledge that you have acquired go to waste. YOU CAN DO IT. And think of the feeling you will have when you get that first one under your belt.

Good luck.

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on April 20, 1999 at 19:49:57:

Jim,
Having been EXACTLY where you are right now, all I can say is, do not do anything you are not ready to do. ONLY YOU can decide what is right for you. It sounds like you will be “alright” financially for a while, but frankly I’d want to be a little more secure. (although,as my wife just said, while reading over my shoulder, “he’s gonna be fine, he can surely get a deal in 3 months time”)
Perhaps take your 401k and put it into a “self directed” retirement fund. This would allow you to make your money work for you. (I believe there is a “how to” article on this very topic)

Also, having the support of your spouse is the greatest asset you have going right now. You will not be fighting the negative attitude at home. And, the fact that you are childless is helpful. None of that, “oops, we need health insurance NOW, because little Johnny needs shots for school next year!”.

I’d also like to say , “thank you” for the mention. I am glad that my posts have been some kind of help.
This board and the people who contribute here are sometimes the only thing that keeps me “plugging away” for the deals. (like when you put in 25 offers and they ALL get rejected!)
They do eventually come, and even when we go WEEKS without one, that one deal that does eventually hit, pays enough to keep us afloat.(I can milk $10k for a LONG time if needed!)
So, good luck to you, and enjoy the plunge!
That first few seconds in the pool can be shocking, but after a time, you’ll see that the freedom your new carreer provides is worth every “risk” you take.
So, DIVE IN, and join the fun!
Enjoy, and keep us posted,
Jim IL

Omagosh! Forgot title “You’ve got to pay the price” nt - Posted by FJW

Posted by FJW on April 22, 1999 at 14:18:34:

nt

Re: Wow… - Posted by Millie I.

Posted by Millie I. on April 21, 1999 at 23:08:31:

Jim,

Do not stop contributing to the 401K unless you need the money to pay off bills and improve your credit. When I left my company, I moved my 401K into an IRA mutual funds account with an investment company. My money has almost doubled in 3 years.

When you are unemployed/self-employed, you won’t have an automatic retirement plan. Money from your 401K may be the only retirement fund you’ll have aside from social security and pension. You get all these pre-taxed money back with compounded interest at 65, so don’t stop the payments.

Do not hate your job or resent it, you do not need that negative energy to destroy your motivation for RE. The paycheck is buying your freedom, look at it with a positive light, this is a project that will sow seeds for your financial freedom, so lighten up and be happy. Smile and laugh while you work. Do it for your mental health, not for the company. You do not want to be fired, you may not get any benefits. Lay-off is different, they will have to pay you for a few months after you leave. You will be eligible for medical insurance for 18 months. Gives you something extra while you are trying to support yourself with RE. It doesn’t happen overnight, not even in 6 to 12 months.

Plan ahead financially and emotionally. Get as much education and experience as you can. Take care of your family first.

Good Luck,
Millie I.

Re: Golden handcuffs - Posted by Matthew Chan

Posted by Matthew Chan on April 21, 1999 at 18:10:16:

Yes, the “golden handcuffs” work well. A couple of people I know at a very well know entertainment company I used to work at wouldn’t move on because they wanted to get their 10-year retirement plan. Now they have reached the 10-year point, they find it harder to leave because of all the time they “invested” in. They also don’t want to lose their “seniority”.

And their drudgery continues… They continue to find somewhere to go and wish an opportunity would open up…

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Carolyn

Posted by Carolyn on April 21, 1999 at 22:48:09:

To JPiper RE: “When you look back over time the possession that was your most prized one years ago is gone. But what ALWAYS remains with you is YOU, your heart.”
…That’s called INTEGRITY! I have to agree with you on that. People should try to remember that aspect no matter what they pursue in life. Carolyn

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by johnman

Posted by johnman on April 21, 1999 at 20:23:26:

Jim,

You are right! When the door opens things do shift around in your favor. This just happened to me yesterday. I asked for help and a lot of people showed me there eagerness to help. The first one to respond was…Jackie in Dallas. There were plenty more. I’m going to wrap-up my deal here then GOODBYE J.O.B.!!!

Like what you said in one of your post, if you have the knowledge why waste it by doing nothing. Just do it. I’m not quoting you though. Thanks for your wonderful posts.

Wish me luck!

Johnman

Very Inspirational! - Posted by Sandy FL

Posted by Sandy FL on April 21, 1999 at 09:42:11:

David, I wanna be like you when I grow up.

Hey can you shed some light on what kind of systems you were able to put in place with your former JOB? The strategies that enabled you to cut down to one day a week?

Sandy

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by Sandy FL

Posted by Sandy FL on April 21, 1999 at 07:14:05:

couple more things…
You have been at your job a whole 4 years? Yehaww! I have been in my present career 14 years! Talk about bad habits that need breaking! LOL

And the other comment was something to look forward to… when your on the FastTrack you don’t need to ‘ask permission’ for a day off or time to go to a seminar or convention. Boy do I look forward to that!

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by MattM

Posted by MattM on April 21, 1999 at 13:30:43:

I would like to know how you get the forclosure list. Also, what is the red tag list. How do you get that?

Re: J.O.B. really bringing me down… - Posted by johnman

Posted by johnman on April 20, 1999 at 20:18:16:

PHIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL,

My friend!!! I like your post! This inspires me. Read my post before this one. I am about to quit my job too. I’m glad for Jackie in Dallas’ post to me. I will wrap up my deal here and hopefully be home soon to start RE FULL TIME!!! HOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

See yah later dude,

Johnman

Logic vs emotions - Posted by Jim Beavens

Posted by Jim Beavens on April 22, 1999 at 17:23:17:

Hi Millie,

You said:

“Do not stop contributing to the 401K unless you need the money to pay off bills and improve your credit.”

Bingo.

I can use my current contributions to pay down my excessive consumer debt much faster. I’ve always tried to do both, so I’ll always have some tucked away, but I think it’s time I focused squarely on my debt if I’m going to strike out on my own in the near future. Besides, my contributions have been dwarfed by the profit-sharing contributions my employer makes (12.5% of my pay every year regardless of what I contribute, which is 60% vested so far, and should fully vest in a couple more years).

As far as tax-deferred savings go, Kiyosaki really opened my eyes at the convention when he pointed out how most traditional retirement plans are based on the assumption that we will retire poor. We put money in tax-deferred accounts because we assume that we will be in a lower tax bracket when we retire, which implies a lower income than we currently enjoy. That’s not my plan at all (obviously the Roth IRA changes this…I’ll have to look into which type of IRA I’ll roll my 401(k) over into when the time comes).

I understand how tax-deferred savings can grow much faster than after-tax, and if one doesn’t need the money now then putting it in a tax-deferred account is probably preferable to a taxable account. But since I have a ton of debt, I figure I can put that money to better use now.

As for lightening up and being happy, well what you say (and what you said down below) sounds very logical and makes a lot of sense to the calculating engineer within me. But my emotions keep complicating things. I really do wish I could change my attitude toward my job with a snap of my fingers. But that is far easier said than done. It’s a little late to avoid resenting my job. =)

You mentioned down below to keep my job and REI seperate, and to work on REI only during nights and weekends. Unfortunately I’ve already done most of what I could do during the weekends (studying all the courses and books I got), and some of things I need to do now involve consulting with a lawyer, calling real estate agents, incorporating, and other things that require actions during normal working hours. This is all complicated by the fact that I work in a cubicle right next to my boss, who can hear every phone call I make. And as I inferred in my original post, my brain just can’t seem to handle rapidly switching between two completely different tasks. If I’m deeply involved in solving a tricky circuit problem, then I have to shut out everything else or I won’t get anywhere. Likewise, if I do allow my mind to wander to thoughts of real estate (like coming to this board, which I do far too often during the day), then I have a hard time immersing myself once again in all the minutia of my job, none of which I really have any interest in. So all I’m left with is a half-hearted attempt at both, and a bunch of excuses (“I could do so much better at REI if I didn’t have my job”, or “I could do so much better at my job if I wasn’t so distracted by REI”). As you said, it just ends up tearing me apart.

As with everybody else’s comments, I’ll think about what you’ve said. But if I wait until I have all my consumer debt paid off and have 12 months cash reserves on hand, I’ll be working for several more years. Two years ago, I bought the Carleton Sheets course and found this website. I lurked for a while, but didn’t buy any other courses, and eventually decided that I needed to continue working in my career. Now two years later I look at where I am, and I’m disgusted. I don’t want another two years to pass and look back at this point in time and wonder how successful I could have been by now. After the convention and buying all the courses that I did, I’m certain I have all the theoretical knowledge to be successful in this business. Obviously, I’m lacking the practical knowledge (as an engineer, I know the real world never works like the theory says it should), and so the question becomes whether I can learn and apply that practical knowledge enough so that it covers my current living expenses, and do this fast enough before my cash reserves are depleted. I honestly don’t know the answer to this question, but I’m as close to finding out as I’ve ever been. For the time being I’m not going anywhere; I’ve made a commitment to think about this for a few weeks and make sure I stay as committed as I am now. I’ll keep you posted.

Re: Very Inspirational! - Posted by David S

Posted by David S on April 22, 1999 at 07:54:49:

Thanks Sandy, you are a dear friend.

Without writing a book here, I guess the single most important thing I learned was I had to let go of my fear. The fear that nobody could/would run my business as well as I can. Fear that things wouldn’t get done in the order or fashion that I like. Timing of this and that.

It was really a simple transition for me AFTER I realized that all I had to do was create a simple procedures manual with a checklist for each employee. I included a small bonus program for production/sales volume, etc. the list goes on and on.

I now realize this business has to make $xxx per hour/ $xx per customer before it is profitable; the figures tell the story. When I shared that with my key people, their entire way of thinking changed… they FINALLY understood what I have been trying to explain for years.

When I said I only work (in) the business one day per week didn’t mean that I don’t work (on) the business a few hours per day… I want more simple solutions that take emotion out of the picture. After all, it’s all about numbers.

Thanks again Sandy,

David S