Posted by GL - ON on July 31, 2003 at 11:23:14:
It is also practically meaningless. That’s what makes it funny. If the British flag still flew over 1/4 of the globe it wouldn’t be funny.
Landlording - Posted by Markus
Posted by Markus on July 30, 2003 at 14:55:14:
I want to invest in a SFH as my first rental property. I’m interested and willing to learn about tenant law and management etc. but I have a weak spot. I am fairly useless when it comes to repairs. I want to know if I’m putting myself at a big disadvantage. Any thoughts?
Re: Landlording - Posted by Markus
Posted by Markus on July 31, 2003 at 11:31:15:
Thanks guys for your responses. I feel confident now that I can utilize my time in more creative ways. Not being qualified to do an amount of the repairs myself no longer looks like an obstacle. I appreciate your input.
My father once said… - Posted by Earl
Posted by Earl on July 31, 2003 at 08:14:21:
‘The man who knows how to do a job will always work for the man who knows why to do it.’ You’ll have a disadvantage, but you can overcome it. Over time, you’ll want a good appreciation of why to do the repairs - what that does to help your income from satisfied tenants, etc.
Re: Landlording - Posted by ken in sc
Posted by ken in sc on July 31, 2003 at 07:17:06:
I have been an investor for 10 years, own many houses, and now own a property management business as well. And guess what, I can’t hardly change a light bulb. Seriously, I am hopeless. But I have learned how to hire, manage, and pay good people to do my work without getting ripped off. Sure, I paid too much the first year or so. But you get better and better. Just factor in a big spread on your properties at first, knowing that it will take time before you are able to get your prices down. But you do not have to learn how to fix things.
Ken
Re: Landlording - Posted by Vic
Posted by Vic on July 31, 2003 at 24:43:33:
Markus,
Don’t feel bad. When I first started I didn’t know a whole lot about repairs either. But here’s what you can do.
You know those shows that come on HGTV & DIY? Well start watching every single one of those & I do mean every single one (except the gardening ones). You’ll be surprised at how quickly you start to pick up things. Then go to Home Depot or Lowes & pick up a couple of the books they sell on how to repair things & start flipping through them. Finally, after you’ve completed those things, do a rehab. Once you’ve done your first rehab, you’ll be suprised at how much you know.
YOu don’t need to do the rehab work yourself, just watch the guy who does. Ask questions, lots of questions. When you get stuck, talk to other investors & see how they’ve solved the problem.
Lastly, go to diynet dot com & check out their message boards, as well as their online videos.
Do these things & you’ll have a real good handle on what’s going on.
Vic
Re: Landlording - Posted by BrokerScott (Mich)
Posted by BrokerScott (Mich) on July 30, 2003 at 17:44:43:
handyman $10/hr. My rate for consulting $50/hr. Easy choice. Course if I don’t have anything else to do, cheapo me… ahem.
Re: Landlording - Posted by GL - ON
Posted by GL - ON on July 30, 2003 at 15:14:47:
I suppose you are at a slight disadvantage. I know plenty about repairs and it has helped, but as time goes on I do less and less myself.
The man who actually does something usefull is the worst paid and the least respected. I don’t like it and I don’t agree with it but that’s the rule.
If you want to be rich and respected you have to do something of no practical value. The richer you get the farther away you are from anything practical, until finally you are so far away from everyday life no one can even understand what it is you do.If you are a derivatives trader you can make $50 million a year and not even understand it yourself.
Painting and fixing has a limited value in terms of dollar value. In other words you will never get rich solely by painting and fixing, although it can help you along in the beginning if you are cash poor.
To put it another way, you can hire someone to paint and fix things for a certain number of dollars per hour, but as an investor your earnings are unlimited, and as time goes on you will be doing deals where your time is repaid at hundreds of dollars, even thousands of dollars per hour.
So don’t worry, get out there and flog the wogs.
Re: Landlording - Posted by Marcos
Posted by Marcos on July 31, 2003 at 12:23:18:
I’m sorry GL, but this is a load of crap.
You say- "The man who actually does something usefull is the worst paid and the least respected. I don’t like it and I don’t agree with it but that’s the rule. If you want to be rich and respected you have to do something of no practical value. "
This is complete malarky. Saying that being able to paint is useful and anything else is less useful. This is pre-industrial age thinking.
The fact is wealth is rewarded to those with creativity and initiative. So, I can find 1,000 people in my town who can paint a room. But, only a handful can see the whole picture of what a house is, what it can be, and a creative way to get it along the process.
The reason why the investor is more “valued” than the painter is because he has something the painter doesn’t. Knowledge, creativity and initiative. These qualities are PRICELESS. Donald Trump has made millions because he has these qualities. Also what the Don has done is employed thousands as well. Including many “useful” people such as painters, carpenters, etc.
So, sure it sounds nice to say that the painter is more valuable, because he does something tangible. But, it’s a lie. Because without the investor to do all the things necessary to take the deal from Point A to Point Z, there would be no paint applied, maybe ever.
I partner with a friend here in town. We do quite a bit of work together. I find the deal. I find the cash to do the deal. I let him do all the work, checking in every week or two. At the end, I find someone to buy it. And walk them through the process. My total input on a typical deal, 20 hours or so. His typical input on the deal, 200-300 hours or more. I make half, he makes half. Am I more useful than he is? You would argue probably not. But, without me, he wouldn’t have done the deal. So, without me, there is no deal. So, let me ask again, am I more useful? Reality is I can hire out the work to anyone, I choose to partner with him to create a life of abundance for him, so that he too can create wealth. Eventually he will go on to become a successful real estate investor on his own. As of today, he still needs me. I’m content with the situation, and honestly hope eventually he becomes discontent so that he can grow.
Sorry my friend, I know you have a particular way of looking at the world. But, I couldn’t let this one slide, because I disagree completely.
Marcos
Re: Landlording - Posted by RichV(FL)
Posted by RichV(FL) on July 31, 2003 at 05:02:07:
GL,
I’m with you. As time has gone on I find myself doing less of the “handywork” on my properties and more deal hunting. You make more money with your mind than your hands…its just a fact.
Great Success,
RichV(FL)
Re: Landlording - Posted by Markus
Posted by Markus on July 30, 2003 at 16:15:12:
Thanks. Good insight there but a question. What the !@#$ is a wog? 
Re: Landlording - Posted by Tim
Posted by Tim on August 02, 2003 at 08:59:12:
"I choose to partner with him to create a life of abundance for him, so that he too can create wealth. "
I don’t know you, & I am not accusing you of anything, but when I hear a statement like that I put my back to the wall & cover my mouth with my hands, because I know someone is fixing to get screwed, & it sure isn’t going to be me.
One more thing… - Posted by GL - ON
Posted by GL - ON on July 31, 2003 at 15:04:34:
One more thing. I have actually done both. I can take an old wreck and restore it to a useful and beautiful home. Can you? I can do all kinds of manual work like you wouldn’t believe. Now I have nearly given it up. It doesn’t pay.
I can make deals too. And I guarantee you, the deal making part takes far less knowlege, skill and mental effort than fixing the houses. You think it’s all manual labour. It’s not. You don’t even have a beginning of a clue what I am talking about.
Hard working men and women deserve respect. But obviously they aren’t going to get it from you. They aren’t going to get it from anyone anymore.
Well Mr. Big Shot, I’m as big and as important as you are, and I don’t care who you are. That’s democracy.
And if your “friend” ever does wise up and quit you, you better hope you can replace him quick because he may be able to do without you but you sure can’t do without him, or someone like him.
Re: Landlording - Posted by GL - ON
Posted by GL - ON on July 31, 2003 at 14:47:49:
yshNJ is right. We agree right down the line. You say you do deals with a partner. You do 20 hours work and he does 200 - 300 or more. You don’t say so but I’ll bet your “work” mainly consists of sitting on your ass and yapping while his requires actual skill, knowlege and getting his hands dirty.
You hope that maybe someday he will wise up and want to be more like you. I AGREE WITH YOU. I WANT TO BE LIKE YOU. I WANT TO LEARN TO SIT ON MY ASS AND SHOOT MY MOUTH OFF AND GET PAID FOR IT. O MASTER GURU LET ME SIT AT YOUR FEET AND LEARN.
What would be really cool would be to become a junk bond trader like Michael Milken and make $50 million a year off finageling pieces of paper that have no value at all, but I’m afraid I’ve missed the boat on that one.
Re: Landlording - Posted by yshNJ
Posted by yshNJ on July 31, 2003 at 13:07:33:
Marcos,
Based on my interpretation of what GL is saying and what you are saying…you are both in agreement. Maybe you misinterpreted what GL is saying or maybe I did?
Re: Landlording - Posted by GL - ON
Posted by GL - ON on July 30, 2003 at 19:27:21:
Old English Army and Foreign Office expression. Short for Worthy Oriental Gentleman as in “They’re all wogs east of Calais”.
The phrase “flogging the wogs” comes from a book called The Duke Of Deception. It was about a con man who would say “It’s time to go flog the wogs” when he was about to put one over on someone. I always liked the expression, I think it’s funny.
Re: One more thing… - Posted by Marcos
Posted by Marcos on July 31, 2003 at 17:52:06:
Wow, touchy, touchy!! Must mean we’re getting somewhere.
Let’s be real clear here GL. I think you’re wrong. That doesn?t mean that I don?t still value your opinion, and think you add value to the board. I?m not attacking you(although you certainly seem to have felt that way), I?m attacking your ideas. That?s what adults do, that?s why it?s called a discussion board.
Did I ever say that I don’t treat the people I deal with, with total respect and honesty? No. This guy I do deals with is one of my best friends. I treat him like an equal partner. But, on the other hand I don?t follow socialism. I don?t believe the worker is to be revered. I believe that the capitalists and entreprenuers of the world are what makes our world such a productive place. Without these people nothing would happen. I mean you can take it out to the ridiculous and show over and over how without a ?mover and shaker? no painter would ever have a house to paint.
Now, ask yourself a question GL. If being a real estate investor were so easy, why doesn?t everyone do it? How many well meaning souls do you think try this business and for whatever reason can?t quite put it together. Does that make them bad people? Well, wouldn?t that make about 99% of the population ?bad?. I?m a horrible handyman. I can admit that. I can change a light bulb unlike Ken, but not much beyond that. I also recognize that there is quite a bit of difference between your run of the mill handyman, and true artisans and craftmen.
The truth is we live in as close to a free market economy as has yet been created. What that tells me is the market will always pay you what you are worth. I?ve done many things in my life and earned many quite varied salaries. The more specialized I got, the more money I made. It has nothing to do with whether you sweat, or sit behind a desk. The fact is that the market will compensate you accordingly. For instance, my plumber makes $25/hr, he has a high degree of speciality, and years of experience. My drywall guy gets $9/hr. My tile guy gets $15/hr. The owner of my roofing company makes over a million a year. His typical roofer makes $12/hr. My attorney sits behind a desk and makes $200/hr. Does that make any of these people any less than any of the others, no. The fact is the market pays you what you?re worth. PERIOD. So, I don?t choose to bewail the fact that my drywall guy only makes $9/hr. The market has determined what his labor is worth. I asked, he told me, I paid. The market doesn?t lie.
I feel like you want me to feel sorry for someone who is being paid what the market has dictated. And I just don?t believe in that. I was a roofer at one time in my life. I decided I wanted more. I got more. I was homeless another time. I decided I wanted more. I got more. I was a real estate investor one time. I decided I wanted more. I?m getting more. And worse yet, you want to say that what I do is worthless at the same time. The guy I hire to drywall my house is more useful and I?m a lazy bum who sits on my butt. And that I say is wrong. That I can never agree with.
So, I hope you can understand that just because I think your idea is wrong, doesn’t mean that I think you’re “wrong”.
Mr Big Shot (Marcos)
Re: Landlording - Posted by Sammy
Posted by Sammy on July 31, 2003 at 11:04:14:
Uhhh, your pet phrase is racist.
Re: One more thing… - Posted by GL - ON
Posted by GL - ON on July 31, 2003 at 20:16:19:
I don’t know how you can say I am wrong when we are in total agreement on every single point.
You say that your partner gets the same money you do, even though he does 200 - 300 hours work to your 20 hours. You also state that you treat him as an equal partner.
I believe you. I can’t put it any stronger than that. I believe every word you say. I believe that you sincerely feel you are treating him with the respect he deserves, you are not cheating him out of anything, he is one of your best friends and you treat him with total respect and honesty.
I don’t expect you to do anything you don’t want to do. You aren’t going to change. I’m not trying to change you.
What I am saying is that given the choice between being the guy who sits in an air conditioned office and never gets his hands dirty, and being the guy who does the actual work, I would sooner be the guy who never gets his hands dirty. Especially since he gets the same money for doing less than 1/10th the work.
And I say that as someone who has tried it both ways.
You ask why everyone isn’t a real estate investor if it’s so easy. Well a lot of people are, or are trying to be. You must have seen the letters from people with no money, no training, etc. who are ambitious to get into this field. In a lot of places there are 10 or 20 bidding on every property.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg. Who wants to get their hands dirty anymore? Everyone wants some kind of desk job where they can tell others what to do. And they are perfectly right. Anyone who works with his hands is going to get the least money and the least respect. So don’t do it. Hire some chump instead. That’s what I told Markus at the start of this thread and that’s what I am telling you now.
I don’t particularly like it, and I don’t think it’s good for the country but what difference does that make? The jobs are going to keep on going overseas, we are going to keep on depending on foreigners for the things we use every day, and the people who could be making them right here are going to either get with the 21st century, like you and me, or stay on welfare.