Lonnie vs Carlton - Posted by Tony Ohio

Posted by TonyOhio on August 10, 2003 at 10:09:25:

I was asking about their ways of dealing with problems with properties, I guess someone couldn’t pull off a no down deal and feels 160.00 was too much to pay for a course, anyway I’ll stick to the subtle way of dealing with problems, thanks to all.

Lonnie vs Carlton - Posted by Tony Ohio

Posted by Tony Ohio on August 08, 2003 at 20:58:06:

Ok, I’ve read DOW and I have CS’s course, Lonnie’s squirell dog system goes totally against what Carlton Sheets says as far as NEVER critisizing a sellers property. Anyone have any thoughts either way? Mobiles different from houses?

Apples and Oranges - Posted by Karl (Oh)

Posted by Karl (Oh) on August 09, 2003 at 21:05:48:

Carleton is trying to teach you (more or less) how to get a seller to carry back the financing when you buy their home. Pointing out problems in an effort to beat down their price probably doesn’t help to achieve this. Lonnie is teaching something very different. How to wave cash at the seller of a mobile home to get their very best price. No money down versus all cash. Two different techniques for two different ways to buy a home.

Having said that, I don’t use Lonnie’s squirrel dog technique. I never really got comfortable with it. Instead I just tell the seller that I’ve got too many trailers for sale right now, (you’ve got one that you can’t sell? I’ve got 10! I feel your pain.) I couldn’t possibly buy another one, price isn’t even the issue, but if the price was so good that I couldn’t pass it up…

Karl Kleiner

Re: Lonnie vs Carlton - Posted by Lyal

Posted by Lyal on August 08, 2003 at 22:03:56:

You aren’t criticizing anything when you’re “squirrel dogging”. It’s much more subtle than that. You’re just “noticing” things while the seller is present and by your comments educating him as to what it’s going to take to remedy the problems you find (Wow, that’ll never pass inspection" or Only a licensed electician / plumber can fix that"). You never point to it and you never bring it up directly except maybe to ask “We’re you going to fix this??” Then maybe a head shake and a “tsk tsk” as you head off to something else.
Make sense?
All the best, Lyal

Re: Lonnie vs Carlton - Posted by Kurtis

Posted by Kurtis on August 09, 2003 at 07:30:03:

Carltons course is a joke. Does give some general information if your a newbie, but it’s outdated and with financing the way it currently is his ideas are a won’t work unless your already done deals and have a good reputation and the 700+ credit score. With both of those there’s no need for his crap. Lonnie has some real ideas that work today not 30 years ago.

Re: Lonnie vs Carlton - Posted by Tony-VA/NC

Posted by Tony-VA/NC on August 09, 2003 at 18:02:27:


You are not exactly comparing apples to apples when you talk about Carlton’s course. It has been years since I have read his course but I would suggest that you are quite wrong that his material is outdated or does not work under current the current market.

Carlton’s course, as I recall, was a reasonable overview of creative real estate investing as a whole. All of those techniques work.

You are concerned about needing to have a high credit score but if you have read his material, you should know that creative real estate is creative so that you don’t need the high credit scores required by banks. Creative Real Estate (and Carleton’s material as I recall) is about acquiring property through techniques that don’t require you to go to banks.

The courses for sale here, Lonnie’s book included, are detailed and topic specific. Carleton’s was a broad overview of many topics.

You don’t need to know every technique to get started in Real Estate Investing. Becoming an expert in one technique, in your area is a great start. In time you will likely use the various techniques Carlton teaches but they will be adapted to your market and your personal approach.

My point is this, don’t jump to hard on Carlton’s material. It is not bad if you apply it and adapt it (just as you would any course here).


Re: Lonnie vs Carlton - Posted by TonyOhio

Posted by TonyOhio on August 09, 2003 at 08:51:10:

Not disputing who is better, I’ve bought a 4 plex and 2 sfh’s using some of Carltons methods,but I would think I’d be able to buy MH’s just as cheaply doing Carlton"s more subtle way.

Re: Lonnie vs Carlton - Posted by Kurtis

Posted by Kurtis on August 10, 2003 at 07:35:02:

Two big differences. Carlton target markets peoples who are in trouble and want a way out. These people spend big bucks $400+ last time I knew and aren’t qualified to do most of the deals he talks about. No money down deals may be avail once in a blue moon, I’ve done a couple. But he fails to mention that these no money down deals need money put into them to bring up to code etc. He talks a lot about alternative finance. IE having the seller finance 2nd mortgage or seller finance the downpayment. These aren’t even legal if disclosed for most mortgage companies and very few banks will do deals like this either. With the few local banks that will you are required to have reserves(out the window w/Carltons no money down) to meet expenses and a good credit score. Carlton completely lies to most people that buy his course.

Lonnie does nothing of the sort and his book is reasonabley priced so he isn’t going to take the rent money from a low income wannabe. I’ve only done 1 Lonnie deal, but it worked pretty much as he describe and has been a great source of cash flow. I’m currently in the middle of renovating a SFH and a multi unit building when those are finished I’ll be looking at doing mostly Lonnie deals instead of expanding my portfolio of apartment buildings and SF rentals.

Bottom line is Lonnie books outlines a process that almost anyone could duplicate with a little saved money 100% of the time. Carlton says the same thing but lies to most people, because what he teach(may have worked in the 80’s) doesn’t work 95% of the time.

Re: Lonnie vs Carlton - Posted by Tony-VA/NC

Posted by Tony-VA/NC on August 10, 2003 at 10:49:06:

Yes, Carlton does target late night dreamers who may have little propensity to get off the sofa to actually apply his material (much less open it). But their refusal to apply it does not mean it won’t work.

Not all of his techniques are bank related. As I recall, he touched upon pretty much all of the creative investing techniques, few of which deal with banks. Lease/Options, Subject-To, Wrap Mortgages, Contract for Deed, Owner carry, hard money (private or equity) lenders are all legal, all covered (in greater detail) by course for sale here, AND all mentioned (as I recall) in Carlton’s course.

Perhaps your frustration stems from banging heads with banks. I too have a banker’s knot on my forehead from past attempts but in time I adapted to make the deals work.

No money down deals can be done but just because they are No Money Down does not make them good deals and this is a topic in which I would differ with Carlton, but that is another post.

I also agree with you that if someone can’t afford the course, they are not financially prepared for the business (although some have proven me wrong). Most people forget that this is a business and you need cash reserves, credit to fill the gaps if necessary and a realistic idea of what you are going to do with the property now and in the long term.

Lonnie’s teachings are quite affordable, no argument there. But I would also suggest that if you go into business doing Lonnie deals, then you should also have a cash reserve, credit to fill the gaps if necessary and a realistic idea of what you are going to do with the property now and in the long term.

In applying either course, Carlton’s or Lonnie’s, you can do some deals without all of those things but I would agrue that you are not truly in business then either. Don’t get me wrong, a few nice investment deals is great and Lonnie’s material is what I too chose and did well with.

It may seem ironic to many that I would agrue for Carlton but this does not mean I prefer his material to Lonnie’s. They are not an apple to apple comparison. Lonnie’s $30 book changed my financial life in more ways than I would ever have imagined. I would encourage all beginners to start with his material. Lonnie’s system does not require huge amounts of cash in hand or force people to take on large amounts of debt. That is the beauty of his system. It is easy to apply and easy to succeed with.

If a person focused on one topic in Carlton’s course, they could become an expert in that field. I would suggest that the course here are more detailed on the niche topics and would greatly benefit one trying to perfect their niche. Many have then proven that it is easy to apply and easy to succeed with.