Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by houserookie

Posted by David Alexander on December 29, 2000 at 19:12:39:

Geez… don’t let what I said effect you… the lazy thing I mean. I’m as lazy as they come… when it comes to working… seeking knowledge on the otherhand… I’m all there.

If I ever get my website up fully I plan on having a newsgroup specifically for the marketing of RE.

It’ll be at or when I get it fully funtional.

Good web guys are hard to come… and I’m too lazy to learn HTML etc, etc.

David Alexander

P.S. I meant no offense other than that hopefully you realize that for a large part of the good things in life commerce is involved somewhere… either blantantly or suttlely… :slight_smile:

Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by houserookie

Posted by houserookie on December 29, 2000 at 07:12:58:

I have been followng this board for quite sometime now, and for the most part I like it - with caution.

This is what I am noticing. It seems that board leaders are more interested in selling their courses.

Information on such topic as
marketing are fair, however, few are willing to volunteer
and help in identifying vital elements such as:

Hard money lender/investors
IRA money sources
loan sources
note buyers

The ones that are identified are somehow affiliated with this board or banner advertisers. People that have an interest in profiting from you or in defending their material.

These are the most important elements in REI. Everything else are just tapes, books, courses, and opinion.

Hopefully this message won’t get deleted. But please be cautious when receiving information and assume that it is the best information.


Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by Rick-PA

Posted by Rick-PA on December 30, 2000 at 16:06:16:

I understand HR’s point. After following these posts for almost a year I think most people could spot “ads”. It’s funny, but after awhile you see the names… Kaiser…Piper…Alexander…Bronchick…Vaughn, Garcia (on the financial board), Scuggs, Susan-FL, Branstetter, just to name a few, and you’ll begin to know the REAL advice from some phony advice or should I say “Post” Not trying to “kiss up” but these folks have been extremely helpful, plus, Jeanne keeps the board clean from a lot of crap. Thanks for the help. By the way, HR’s advice is sound, too. Happy Holidays.

Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by B.L.Renfrow

Posted by B.L.Renfrow on December 29, 2000 at 23:50:35:

I must agree with those who say your question or your assertions are not terribly clear. But if you’re asking why certain questions go unanswered, I can think of a number of reasons, none of which have anything to do with selling courses:

*The question is too vague/nonspecific.
*The question is TOO specific, only pertaining to a limited region/area.
*The question may have been asked and answered repeatedly.
*The question is so elementary it indicates the poster couldn’t be bothered with some minimal research.
*The question is posted by someone with a history of analyzing/questioning things to no end, but never applying the knowledge and doing deals.
*The poster may have been rude or unappreciative to those who have previously tried to help him or her out.
*The poster may be asking someone to try to explain something which requires a whole course to adequately understand. Someone who asks, “How do I do subject-to deals?” is probably – and correctly – going to get told to buy a course. You can’t properly respond to an inquiry like that in a one or two paragraph message.
*The questioner is asking other investors to reveal proprietary knowledge. If I have a private lender or note buyer I have used successfully, and I know their funds are not unlimited, it doesn’t make good business sense for me to refer others to them.
*Hard money lenders may wish to deal only with investors with track records, not wanting to be bothered with calls and e-mails from every wanna-be investor who reads this board.
*Many requests for contracts and forms go unanswered because (1) most are state-specific and should be reviewed by your own attorney to assure they are valid, and (2) there are plenty of free, basic forms available on the web and they are referenced frequently on the board, and (3) it’s probably not doing any potential investor a favor to send forms when he/she doesn’t even know what form to use or how to complete it.
*Posters who use a pseudonym and fake e-mail address don’t exactly ooze credibility. I understand the desire to avoid spam (though I use my real address and don’t find it a major issue) but someone who posts anonomously is, I think, less likely to get serious responses.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but I hope this sheds some light on the question I think you are asking.

Brian (NY)

Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by Shaun

Posted by Shaun on December 29, 2000 at 16:50:01:

You seemed to have stirred a hornets nest with this one. It sounded more to me that Houserookie was playing devil’s advocate. Constructive criticsm can sometimes help. There are Gurus and then there are Gurus, as we all know. Some do what they teach and some just teach and make do! The trick is picking out which is which. We have also noticed that the “good” Gurus sometimes are hesitant to point out the bad! But then contoversy sells. This site mostly and some others keeps things fairly even. It is some times very difficult to weed out the shills. But when it becomes evident, or when a Guru is obviously taking everyone for a ride, we should jump on him with all fours. All in all, this site does a pretty good job of it, but then everybody and everything should and can stand improvement.

Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by JoeKaiser

Posted by JoeKaiser on December 29, 2000 at 12:23:03:

I still can’t figure out what it is you’re asking/suggesting, and I’ve read all the posts in this thread.

JP sells my courses. So, are you saying I should respond to posts or I shouldn’t? And when I do respond, am I being helpful or just trying to sell another course?

Frankly, I don’t see your point.


Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on December 29, 2000 at 10:02:48:


Hard Money,

Well in Texas at least Ready Mortgage or Statewide, can’t say I’ve ever used them… private money is the source most widely used.

What you really need to be doing instead of whining is to learn how to find sources… call the I buy houses ads and ask the folks to lunch, go to your local RE meeting.

IRA money… you have to make your own contacts… it is a private individuals money.

Loans sources… local banks and mortgage brokers are numerous.

Notebuyers… Sunvest, Associates, Metroplitan, FSB in Arkansas… too many to name… again searching the web for note buyers and note websites and you’d have too many to name.

Seems to me I just helped your laziness somewhat… but the real deal is are you going to do something your self.

As far as marketing search the archives for a post by Bill Gatten… it has one of the best layouts for marketing I’ve seen.

It only takes a couple of ways, Bandit signs, direct mailouts, ads, calling on FSBO’s , networking contacts, atorney’s, CPA’s, and on and on.

Bottom line is that somethings you are going to either have to learn yourself or hire someone smarter than you.

Think of this website as just one tool for information, not YOUR ONLY tool (a very strong one) … and then you might be able to put it all into perspective.

Otherwise get yourself in the trenches, experience is the best teacher.

David Alexander

Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by Scott(WA)

Posted by Scott(WA) on December 29, 2000 at 08:50:13:


I’m sympathetic to your veiwpoint as I am unfortunetly quite synical. If you read the posts and especialy the sucess stories it is undeniably true that the “guru’s” are giving away valuable information and asking for nothing in return. To many newbies are posting great results from the information they have gleened from this site for me to be synical. I have purchased some courses through this site but truly beleive that if you apply yourself you could get the same information here for free as I see alot of the content talked about in great detail by the authors themselves in the course of different posts. Don’t fool yourself into doubting this sites value to your future, it has already done tons for mine and I learn something everytime I come here. My fear is that it won’t always be here, so learn all you can as fast as you can and get out and apply the knowledge - collect the checks.

Thanks to all, for a truly valuable resource. I can hardly wait for the convention, this will be my first!


Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by JD

Posted by JD on December 29, 2000 at 08:30:47:

Hard money lenders, investors and note buyers tend to be regional, most people that post requesting such information usually fail to identify what area of the country they are from. On a few occasions I have emailed people in my area the name and phone number of a hard money lender that I know well. But those people never called him. So I dont bother anymore.

Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on December 29, 2000 at 08:30:07:

I have a different perspective on your comment. The courses that are offered here are first scrutinized very thoroughly by the Vaughn’s. It’s nice to know that experts are checking the courses and materials before they get offered to us.

What I think is special about these courses offered on this site is that the authors actually respond to questions right here on this board. You are getting free consulting right from the source.

I’ve got both Bronchick’s Cash Cow and Lease Option courses and he has always responded on this board. Same with Joe Kaiser. I’ve got his Foreclosure, Lease Option and Mechanics Lien courses. Joe is always answering posts.

Same with John Behle and Lonnie Scruggs. I’ve got their material. All four of those guys have been responding and helping others here for my 4 plus years at the site. You won’t see Carleton, what’s his name, doing that.

These guys aren’t out their pushing their products because their courses sell themselves. The four above mentioned gentlemen make their money doing deals, not selling courses. Heck Lonnie, Joe and John just about give their courses away in my opinion.

That’s how I see it. Good luck.

I understand your sentiment… - Posted by TRandle

Posted by TRandle on December 29, 2000 at 07:37:18:

I do understand your point, I believe. However, I want to present a different perspective. I would spend less time at this site if everyone was allowed to freely advertise on the newsgroups, and I would put even less weight on the responses if I thought the poster had an agenda. Yes, there are probably numerous helpful ideas, companies, and resources that we are missing out on, but it also keeps out the scams and riff-raff for the most part. There is an appropriate forum for that activity, but I don’t believe that a general real estate information newsgroup is it. I also think Terry has mentioned they are working on developing an advertising/networking type forum.

If this were your site, would you think it fair that any Johnny-come-lately with a course, lenders, or whatever tap into your clients without any compensation? If the Vaughns want to restrict advertising to those who pay them for the privilege, then that’s their right, isn’t it?

And, I’ve been here long enough to know that there are ways to get “plugs” in, as long as you’re savvy enough to present it in a way that appears helpful, rather than a pitch. As far as your vital elements, have you simply asked for those with information to contact you?

I’m not trying to be harsh, but it’s their house, their rules. This holds true for any site. Many may think the oversight is too restrictive, but I think those folks aren’t seeing the bigger picture. The good far outweighs the bad. That’s my two cents…

Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on December 30, 2000 at 15:01:38:

Not a problem. I have yet too meet one successful person that takes everything said litterraly.

Personally I had to experience mid life crisis after college and truly value knowledge.

There are a lot of newbies out there that need help. Sometimes they want direction without having to spend money.

But I also understand that there is no free lunch.
The best thing you can tell new investors is that
they cannot expect a free lunch.

And One other… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on December 30, 2000 at 24:01:34:

The subject line, you have to be able to market your question.

I have asked questions before and … No response… then I change the subject line same question and voila’ that sometimes get’s me more answers.

David Alexander

Re: Shaun…Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by HOuserookie

Posted by HOuserookie on December 29, 2000 at 17:54:11:

Oh am I ever good at playing devils advocate. LOL

After all I am from MN, where the Great Governor is Jesse Ventura.


Wants EVERY question answered… - Posted by MatthewC

Posted by MatthewC on December 29, 2000 at 18:28:42:

He wants it mandatory that every question that is asked here answered by someone freely, completely, and accurately.

Someone is supposed to be obligated to give up their information, time, and resources at someone else’s beck and call. Right…

Re: Joe…Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on December 29, 2000 at 17:51:44:

Hi Joe,

Thanks for responding.

I don’t recall asking you anything directly. Waht I am pointing out is that many of the questions go unanswered.

Unless it is somehow related to a specific course.

Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by Jeanne

Posted by Jeanne on December 29, 2000 at 12:38:57:

I think he wants you to tell him your Hard Money Lenders, IRA Money Sources, Loan Sources and Note Buyers. But, not if they advertise on CRE, sell courses, or host forums here. It is a little unclear.


Re: David Alexander - Lazy? - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on December 29, 2000 at 11:01:17:

I think you need to read some of posts by me on this board. I have closed many many deals in real estate.

You assume too much.

My criticsm goes to show that I enjoy this board enough than to remain with a narrow view on things.

I have read some of the messages that have basically been deleted or ignored. Some of which needed answers to.

Btw…I don’t call people lazy. Some are just not as bright as you. Others are entering an arena seperate from what they have been used to.

So Assoicates financial, founded in a garage in the early 1900s, Metropolitan mortgage being the largest note buyer in the country, and John Jacobs at FSB, and finding using self-directed IRA funds sound rather foreign to them.

Some people still have a hard time undestand loan points to increase the yield of a loan from soccer and football points.

So please, I don’t need the motivation of Rich Dad Poor Dad, or think and Grow Rich input from you.

I am bringing this issue because I would like to see improvements here. But whether the moderator of the board will do or not is nothing I can do.

Have a great Un-lazy day, sir


Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by HOuserookie

Posted by HOuserookie on December 29, 2000 at 10:50:19:

Why wouldn’t this site continue to be here.

It’s the information site. And no I am not fooled by this site. I do enjoy it. I’ve just seen some questions go unanswered by others.

It’s kinda like teaching people step by step to make a hamburger, only without the meat.

YOu can have have lettuce, the tomato, and the buns, but without the meat you’re in trouble.

Re: Making $mart Deci$ions - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on December 29, 2000 at 09:28:22:


You will not be disappointed when you get to the convention. It’s a high energy event. Lots of networking with fellow creative investors. Hundreds of money making ideas. Tremendously motivating. You can’t get home quick enough to try some of the ideas out.

And everyone there is very helpful. This will be my 3rd in a row. I stupidly missed the 1st one.