Posted by George on January 26, 2001 at 21:16:49:
I agree with Ed…the worst enemy is procrastination…but…I think it is a balance…everytime we learn something (book, tape, etc) we go out at put it to work!! then we learn the peculiars to our area…
In other words…I think you have to study your stuff…
An slso you MUST apply what you learn RIGHT AWAY…
George
Monster Legrand Course - Posted by Mark Chicago
Posted by Mark Chicago on January 21, 2001 at 04:31:28:
This past Tuesday I received the Ron Legrand Monster Course. I haven’t been able to put it down!
I’m listening to the CD’s and this stuff really sounds like it’ll work (with a LOT of ACTION of course!)
The only thing is, I can hear my Realtor friends saying… “That stuff won’t work here”, “I’m in the business here, Chicago is different.”
Am I being naive? How tough IS the Chicago market?
Mark-I felt the same way as you… - Posted by DebraSC
Posted by DebraSC on January 21, 2001 at 12:25:23:
I am a newbie and I wasn’t sure if Legrand’s stuff would work here. I took the plunge and ran an add for 1 week that said “We buy-sell-and finance used mobile homes” I wasn’t ready to go into SFHs yet, so I started with mobile homes, which I am more familiar with. the response was very impressive. I found in my area there are tons of people who want to rent-to-own (or lease/option). I got more responses from buyers than sellers. So that let me know I would have to work harder at finding deals instead of finding people who want to buy, and most of them did not want to live in the city I’m in…they wanted to live in the town right next to me which is 10 minutes away and no problem at all for me to get to. The prices are cheaper there anyway (I just moved to this city, by the way). I scanned the classifieds and found someone who wanted to rent-to-own their mh because they bought a house and were already living in it. in the meantime, one of the responders to my ad had just been burned out of their home. I L/O the mh from the sellers and in turn, L/O to the burned-out family (after asking about their credit just to see how they would respond. I would not recommend you just ASK, but do as the gurus say, check their credit out. anyway, I was able to match the monthly rent to what the buyers needed and closed both deals. Now, this deal is not the biggest, but if served its purpose of getting my feet wet. I was all rather painless. there were a few bumps (mh had to be moved. Buyers and I split the cost, but there was a little problem with the mover - we had to come to terms on price). Don’t EVER move a mh unless the buyer pays for it. Any problems I had were remedied. Patience is the key. I got a little excited when things didn’t move as fast as I wanted them to.
This forum helped me a lot. they were kind and patient with me and my “stupid, (to me)” questions. I think once you show this sites participaters you are actually moving and TRYING to do something, they will give you all the help they can. Don’t hold back, just do SOMETHING. I am saying this a someone who has just recently experienced the anxiety of taking that 1st step. You will be glad you did.
DebraSC
Re: Monster Legrand Course - Posted by dewCO
Posted by dewCO on January 21, 2001 at 12:01:16:
HINT: Realtors are not the ones to be discussing creative RE with. Not only will they say it won’t work here (most of them) but they’ll say it doesn’t work PERIOD. It’s good you’re getting the nuts and bolts, then like Ed said it’s time to get out the door and see how to apply it in your market. That’s why this forum exists, to help you out. Yes, something will work in your market, you just need to figure out what it is and how to get it to work. But the first thing is always knowing property value.
Re: Monster Legrand Course - Posted by Ed Garcia
Posted by Ed Garcia on January 21, 2001 at 09:50:30:
Mark,
Put that course down and go out and find out for yourself. I’m sorry, but you seem to be the typical newbie, who picks up a course, and then wants to talk about it without ever putting it to its test.
I can’t believe you would ask us, about YOUR market. If you’re going to do deals in it, it’s the first thing you should know?. KNOW your MARKET.
PROCRASTINATION Mark, that’s what you’re doing.
I’ve always said, the street is the best teacher, now you know why. Maybe you should go and find another course to buy, before to find out what’s going on in your community.
Sorry for coming on so strong Mark, but you need a reality check, and I’m trying to give it to you.
Ed Garcia
good point Ed, and… - Posted by David S
Posted by David S on January 21, 2001 at 21:08:21:
Hi Ed,
As you and many of the seasoned investors will agree, there weren’t any courses when we got started in this business. NO LeGrand, NO Lonnie, NO Kaiser, NO Bronchick, NO Sheets, and no CRE online. And very few related books available to answer even the most basic questions.
I remember my very first deal. I had a friend that knew someone that wanted to sell a very small 2br house. This guy had already moved to a new lakeside cottage. He had mentioned that he was going to find someone to buy it… so I went and knocked on his door. We talked for a few minutes, then I chimed right in and asked him if he would sell it to me and allow me to make payments. He had never considered it, and quite frankly, neither had I, but it seemed like a reasonable thing to ask at the time. He asked me how I was planning on paying him (his) money. I asked him how he wanted it… bottom line; I bought the house that night and we made the deal work. Within 2 weeks I had it rented.
NO courses, NO tapes sets, NO infomercials, nothing.
All of the course materials offered here are great, I have quite a few of them myself, including the ones mentioned above. BUT, there is no better teacher than the STREET.
You can own the best information, but you must be willing to use it and you MUST get in the street to make real things happen.
Good to hear from you Ed. I’ll see you in Atlanta!
David S
“Thank you sir! May I have another?” - Posted by Mark Chicago
Posted by Mark Chicago on January 21, 2001 at 15:36:11:
Ed:
Thanks for the kick in the butt… We all need that from time to time.
I just got all three Legrand courses 5 days ago. I’m still digesting the LO material. I can’t believe how time flies while I’m studying this stuff; IT’S ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING! While I’m listening and going through the material, I’m putting all my plans in place to market myself; I already ordered 500 PUTRID COLORED business cards, and will be placing ads in the paper very soon. I’ve put free ads on the internet already.
My first goal is build a buyers list while I’m still reading the material. When I’m about done with the LO module, I’ll go and put my I BUY HOUSES ad. Right now, I sort of feel that I’m going into this blindly. I’m trying to be a REPTILE BRAIN vs my usual THINKER BRAIN. It’s an ongoing battle.
I see where you’re coming from and I really do appreciate it! We all some positive peer pressure!
So, Ed, “THANK YOU SIR! MAY I HAVE ANOTHER?!”
I disagree with Ed… - Posted by Ron (MD)
Posted by Ron (MD) on January 21, 2001 at 10:09:34:
Taking that first step into real estate investing is a big one. I commend Mark for doing his homework first. I have seen too many posts here from newbies who just jump in without knowing even the fundamentals.
So, Mark, you’ve done the first step and have learned the fundamentals through some excellent educational materials (Legrand overprices his courses and boot camps, but they are very good.)
Now, you’re wondering if you can really do this in your area. Legrand’s frequently-used joke is, “this stuff will work anywhere in the U.S…except where you live”. Well, Mark, I think you were smart to take the small, yet reassuring, step of asking experienced investors to confirm that it does, in fact, work where you live. You are lucky to have a forum like this to painlessly ask a question like that and get a meaningful answer. (By the way, Ron Legrand is right, this will work anywhere, including Chicago.)
At some point, you do have to “fish or cut bait”, but we all require different amounts of preparation. Some foolishly jump with little preparation because they think it’s easy to make money in RE. It’s not. It takes knowledge and hard work. (Remember, however, that that’s how life is – if something is simple and easy, it probably doesn’t bring high reward.)
One suggestion, though…if your real question is about RE investing in Chicago, say that in your subject line. I noticed a post a few days ago asking (I think) about investing in Chicago – that may have been yours. If you didn’t get responses, try it again. This board gets a lot of traffic and posts don’t stay here for very long.
Good luck, Mark.
Ron Guy
Re:“Thank you sir! May I have another?” - Posted by Ed Garcia
Posted by Ed Garcia on January 21, 2001 at 17:31:35:
Mark,
Thank you for taking my post in the spirit it was intended.
Ed Garcia
May I have another?" - Posted by JohnBoy
Posted by JohnBoy on January 21, 2001 at 15:51:04:
Maybe this will help. I posted to this to someone else and I’ll just change the name in the reply to reflect the poster!
Mark,
The way most people make money in this game is by using creative techniques to solve one persons problem while being able to structure the deal to where it makes you a profit.
The key to finding a lot of deals in this game is to look for the MOTIVATED SELLERS…forget about looking for houses, that’s a waste of time and requires way too much work!!! Narrow it down to dealing with “motivated” sellers and make less offers that get more offers accepted!
Let me give you an example on buying a house for full market value with no money out of your pocket and picking up a quick $5k up front, positive cash flow every month and a nice payday on the back end…plus where talking about dealing in NICE homes…NO junkers!
Mr. Seller has a newer home he purchased about 2 years ago. When he purchased the home he put about 5% down and was able to qualify for 95% financing. After closing cost he had hardly any equity left.
Mr. Seller ended up buying a new home a couple years later. He’s been trying to sell this home before he has to close on his new home. He can’t even afford to list the home with a realtor because he doesn’t have enough equity in the property to even cover the 6% - 7% commission he would have to pay the agent.
Now his new home is ready and he needs to close on it. He closes and figures he’ll sell the old home soon, but soon enough doesn’t seem to be coming. Now he’s starting to have some financial problems because he has to start paying two mortgage payments until someone buys the old home. He has a problem now because he can’t afford to make two mortgage payments. If something doesn’t give pretty quick he’s going to fall behind on the payments on the old home. He’s going to pay the new homes mortgage first. But he doesn’t want to be late or get behind on the payments of the old home either…he’s worried about damaging his credit if he misses any payments.
This is where I would come along and be in a position to SOLVE HIS PROBLEM! I can put a stop to his worry and stop the bleeding TODAY! All he needs to do is agree to my TERMS and I’ll even pay him what he owes on the property, which is pretty close to full market value. He knows he wasn’t going to get any money out of it after paying off his mortgage and closing costs, so all he wants and all he NEEDS, is to get out from under this mortgage!
I agree to take over his mortgage. I take it over “subject to”, which means I assume his loan without even qualifying through the lender that holds his mortgage. He will deed the property over to me. I now OWN the home. HE is still on the loan that has the lien against the property. He remains responsible to the lender for that loan until I pay it off! Usually within a few years when my tenant ends up exercising their option that I will give to them under a lease option agreement. I won’t be liable for the loan on the property. His bank can’t touch me if something were to go wrong. The loan is in HIS name, not mine! However, I will be liable to the seller to perform on our contract agreement to make his payments and pay off that loan eventually, but my liability is to him, not his bank.
He deeds the property over to me. The house is worth $150k. His loan balance is about $145k. I agree to start making the payments in 30 - 60 days from today! Now I have 30 - 60 days to market the property before my payments start. The payments are $1400 PITI
What’s the FASTEST way to sell a property? Sell on TERMS! So I run an ad in the paper.
NO BANK QUALIFYING!!! RENT TO OWN NICE! 4bd/2ba House Call xxx-xxxx
The phone starts ringing off the hook!
I find a potential buyer that has $5k to put down and says he can afford to pay $1700 per month. ($150k homes in the area would rent for $1200 - $1400 per month, so getting $1700 a month on a $1400 rental when offering an OPTION to buy will bring a premium rent and people will gladly pay it because no one else will even finance them because of one reason or another) I agree to give them an option to buy the home for $165k in one or two years. Again, you get a premium on the sale price because you’re offering TERMS!
I collect the $5k up front as “Non-Refundable Option Consideration” and “IF” they exercise the OPTION, the $5k will be deducted from the purchase price of $165k leaving them with a balance owed of $160k. If they don’t exercise the option the option money paid is non-refundable and is lost!
I get the $5k up front, plus first months rent of $1700. Since I was lucky and found this tenant the first week I get to keep 100% of the first two months rent since my payments won’t start for 60 days! So I collect $5k + $1700 first month rent up front for a total of $6700. The following month I collect the full $1700 for rent and the 10 months after that I collect $300 per month positive cash flow. At the end of the year IF they exercise their option they will pay $160k. After paying off the underlying mortgage of $145k I’ll collect another $15k at closing.
So lets see, that’s…
$5k option money up front $1700 first months rent $1700 second months rent $300 x 10 months rent = $3k $15k at closing
That’s $26,400.00 over 12 months total PROFIT!
Now what happens if the tenant/buyer doesn’t exercise the option in a year???
WONDERFUL!!!
Now I get to start all over again!!! I get to collect another option fee, raise the rent after a year for inflation and get a higher selling price for the option the next time around!
I just keep repeating the process over and over again until someone eventually exercises their option!!!
Assuming every tenant was to exercise their option in the first year…how many deals like this would you have to do each year to make $100k???
Just FOUR deals like this one and you’re making $105,600 per year!
How many hours would that work out to be to find and structure a deal like this and get a tenant/buyer in the property? Not very many!
How many hours per week would you have to put into working at your job to make $105,600.00 per year???
So how do we find these deals?
One thing to remember is that the typical home buyer or seller does not understand any type of creative real estate buying or selling. They typically use a realtor to buy or sell. When that realtor doesn’t sell that home or when that buyer can’t get that loan…that’s where motivation starts to set in. The seller starts getting motivated to sell and the buyer starts getting motivated to buy. In either case they both just want out or in. The seller will just let the property go to get their problem solved and the buyer will gladly pay any price to just get in if you can solve their problem.
Motivated sellers are those that have been trying to sell but haven’t been able to for one reason or another. Or they may be facing foreclosure, or they may be in a divorce situation, or they may have been transferred with their job and need to move on but they don’t want to leave the house empty or deal with renting it out to renters being so far away, or they may have lost their job and can no longer afford the home and need to find something less expensive, or they may have purchased another home and are now stuck with two mortgage payments, or for what ever other reasons they just need to get out from under their mortgage payments.
The buyers just need someone that will sell to them. They can’t get a bank loan or some just “think” they can’t get a bank loan and they only care about two things! How much down and how much per month? If they can afford the payments and have enough to put down in order to let them in, price doesn’t matter to them as much. They just WANT to be able to buy a home!
Your job is to become the “PROBLEM SOLVER!” Instead of thinking in terms of, I’m looking to buy properties, or I want to be an investor, or how do I buy properties with no money, or how do I get financing, etc…
Start thinking in terms of being a “problem solver”. Your job is to find SOLUTIONS to fix someone else’s problems! Your job is to sit down with these people and find out what their problem is. Once you figure out what their real problem is, you now know what they NEED! They all WANT an all cash sale. They WANT full price and WANT someone to just waltz in and buy their home the traditional way. But your job is to find out what they really NEED! Once you find out what their PROBLEM is, then you can determine what their NEED is. Once you know what they really NEED, then your job to get the deal closed is to just come up with the SOLUTION that will get them what they NEED!
You aren’t a real estate investor, you are a PROBLEM SOLVER! You find SOLUTIONS to solve anyone’s PROBLEM! That’s how you make the deals come together!
The best way to find the motivated sellers is to get them to find YOU! You get them to find you by getting the word out that you buy property! Any property, any condition, any price, any time! It doesn’t matter. Just present the property to you and you will figure out a solution to solve the sellers problem to get them what they NEED!
You get a bunch of business cards printed up. Put them out everywhere you go. Hand them out to everyone you meet. Get flyers made up. Post them everywhere you can. Put them in Laundromats, bowling alleys, advertising boards in supermarkets, car washes…put them any where you can put them! Then get some poster signs made up. Post them anywhere you can. Telephone poles. Nail them to a stake and post them on every intersection in town. Let the world know that MARK buys houses for CASH! Just give him a call!!!
Eventually people will start calling YOU! Most won’t be motivated, but some will! You want the ones that are motivated. When they call YOU, that’s when you screen them over the phone first and determine their motivation. Then you go visit them and get face to face with them and build a relationship with them. You want them to get comfortable talking to you. They may want to talk about their dog for all you care. Let them! Get comfortable with them. Let them build some trust in talking with you. When ever they talk, you SHUT UP and just LISTEN! Listen to everything they say. The more they talk, the more information they let out. The more info they let out, the more you learn about their PROBLEM. The more you learn about their problem, the more you will be able to find out what they really NEED! Once you got that information you can now figure out a SOLUTION that will SOLVE their PROBLEM by being able to give them what they NEED! Your solution to their problem gets them what they need and you make a profit for your problem solving skills! You’re a PROBLEM SOLVER! You’re the DOCTOR OF SOLUTIONS! DR. MARK, the master of problem solving!
Now, get busy and go out there and pick up two deals by the end of the month and then report back with your success story!
Check out Bill Bronchick’s course on lease options. I highly recommend his “Nuts & Bolts to Creative Real Estate Transactions”.
You can find both courses at these links:
http://www.creonline.com/c-131.htm
http://www.creonline.com/c-122.htm
You can check out all his stuff at this link:
http://www.creonline.com/legal.htm
You will get my bill in the mail at the end of the month! LOL
I don’t - Posted by Bud Branstetter
Posted by Bud Branstetter on January 21, 2001 at 23:26:51:
Ed’s point was that each one must go out and find out values and availability of properties. I don’t think you disagree with that. Having some background understanding is great but going to open houses, networking and making some lowball offers is as important as taking the courses.
You also made to point that we all require different amounts of preparation. Ed did not bring that up but I think it is important for someone getting started. Part of that preparation will probably be self improvement. From Haroldsen’s “millionaire mindset” to Tony Robbins or Risingstar many need that additional change to make them successful.
Re: I disagree with Ed… - Posted by Ed Garcia
Posted by Ed Garcia on January 21, 2001 at 12:32:51:
Ron,
I appreciate you disagreeing with me, because that’s what this board is all about. Not only did you disagree with me, but also you gave valid reasons as to why.
But now since you’ve had the opportunity to share your opinion. Let me ask you one question.
If an individual could only pick ONE WAY to learn this business and do it, what would it be? Would it be to take the best course available on the planet, not knowing if it could work for them, not knowing how to use it, not knowing their market place, not having a network that you get introduced to and develop when working the market place, not knowing if they can handle rejection as a character builder or if they are cut out for this, not knowing your market place in general, and not making mistakes to learn from when starting?
Or
Go to the street with out a course, learning first hand, everything that a course can’t teach you.
Now if you were to ask, Ed why would you only give someone one way, when the opportunity is available to do both, have a course and still work the street?
My answer would be, the whole point of my post is that in learning this business, some steps are more important or valuable then others.
I have found that the biggest enemy of a new investor is PROCREATINATION.
I noticed that you’ve stated that, Taking that first step into real estate investing is a big one. I commend Mark for doing his homework first. I have seen too many posts here from newbies who just jump in without knowing even the fundamentals.
Ron I disagree with you. In most cases investors don’t just jump in. They start out part time, or on their leisure time to learn the business. As a result of that, taking that first step into real-estate investing, is NOT as big of a step as you’ve made it out to be. Like anything else worth doing, you have to get experience and pay your dues.
If you think I was not understanding or unfair to Mark, I meant to be. Ron, the most valuable lessons won’t come from Ron LeGrands courses, but will come from the street.
That wasn’t meant to be a put down on Ron LeGrands course, because I’ve heard that Ron LeGrand has some good materials. It was meant to make Mark realize he is missing his best learning experiences by not going to the market place where it really counts.
Mark may have just spent a lot of money on a course he may never use.
If your answer will be that he’ll get there is due time and when he’s ready. I can appreciate that, however I’ve already told you about a pattern I’m seeing with newbies, which is one of the main reason that they don’t make it. That’s why I push or encourage them to get in the water as fast as they can and realize it can be cold, before they spend thousands of dollars on courses that they will never use.
Ed Garcia
Re: May I have another?" - Posted by Taylor
Posted by Taylor on January 22, 2001 at 24:54:22:
Awesome!!! Just awesome! A mini-course that I didn’t want to end. Thank you.
Taylor.
Another winner by JohnBoy - Posted by Monique
Posted by Monique on January 21, 2001 at 23:27:55:
JohnBoy,
Another excellent post. Looking forward to meeting you in March!
Monique
GREAT POST ! - Posted by Paul-WA
Posted by Paul-WA on January 21, 2001 at 19:27:14:
Bravo!!!
Outstanding!!!
Everybody Read This Great Post - Posted by phil fernandez
Posted by phil fernandez on January 21, 2001 at 18:28:32:
JB,
You simply AMAZE me. Wonderful post.
Re: I Also disagree with ED… - Posted by Gregory
Posted by Gregory on January 21, 2001 at 23:40:03:
Sorry Ed
First time I ever had to disagree with you my friend
I went to the School of Hard Knocks in the beginning, and boy those lumps across the head hurt something awful. Once I ordered coures and studied them day and night I was more prepared for the world of Real Estate. Through studying my materials first and then going out into this market, I give lumps now not take them… Sorry Ed
ED-you just hit a grand slam!!! ( again).N/T - Posted by Paul-WA
Posted by Paul-WA on January 21, 2001 at 19:40:47:
N/T
Re: I Also disagree with ED… - Posted by Ed Garcia
Posted by Ed Garcia on January 22, 2001 at 24:16:04:
Gregory,
Of course I can see where you’re coming from. I’m glad it worked for you the way it did. But Gregory, I play percentages, when I discuss something on the board. Of course I’m not going to be right all of the time, but I’m going to be right most of the time. When I say that I play percentages, I mean that there is always going to be the rule, and then the exception to the rule. I think if you go back and read my second post explaining my position, you might see what I’m talking about a little clearer. If you have already done that and still disagree, that’s fine too.
Hey Gregory, you’ve got me worried. You said that this is the first time you’ve ever disagreed with me. What does that mean, are you wrong or am I,
(smile)
Ed Garcia
Re: I Also disagree with ED…PART 2 - Posted by Gregory
Posted by Gregory on January 22, 2001 at 23:41:02:
Hello again Ed…
About 2 years ago, I spoke with you on the phone. I am Gregory from Memphis. You told me that I should be out there making deals instead of excuses. So I did. I was financially RAPED. I mean I took a real beating. Maybe it worked for others but for me, not to say that your advice was wrong. With the last couple of dollars that I could gather,I ordered Real Estate courses. With the profit from the successful deals just from the courses, I finally had enough for real estate boot camps. Today I run with the best of them (investors).
I notice that you play the percentages.
Ed I have a question for you…
Say that someone needed a open heart surgery. Would he/she feel more comfortable with a Doctor who went to the School of Hard Knocks, and if so, who is willing to be his/her first patient.
Ed what is percentage of this outcome?
My point is only this newbies should read and study first. Newbies, education is the very first step.
The School of Hard Knocks is more expensive than Harvard Univesity. In a bad way…
Ed , this is not a personal attack at all. I am only expressing my opinion. Maybe both of our opinion are right or even wrong, but that is why we all have them.
(smile)