Mortgage Elimination - Posted by Mike

More Horseshhiitt - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on September 05, 2003 at 18:11:13:


Of course we get back the promisory notes when the loan is paid off. What ever gave you the idea we do not.

This ranting does not ever raise itself to the level of bulllsshi.i.ittt. It is just horsesshhiit.

Good Investing and Sanity Someday*****Ron Starr**********

It takes a courageous person - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on September 06, 2003 at 10:20:47:

to make such a controversial post like this. Idiotic or heroic that’s up to interpretation. We have people working for the Government that don’t know how to take tax deductions or apply for business licenses. We have people in this country that scream real estate flipping is a scam. It’ll take many months to convince the average person that flipping of real estate isn’t a scam…and here you discuss fractional banking. LOL

So here we are with the most creative minds on the web, CREONLINE community, fighting over something that took place prior to 1913. Few people on this board, with the exception of one or two, were born at the time. I was born over a half century after it happened.

Had the German worn WW2, we could be speaking in German right now. All of Europe could have become East, West, North, South Europe and Asian Nations would all be speaking Japanese.

I believe enough has been said on this topic. Each person can make his own decision. Just as flipping real estate has been discussed and now it is up to each person to decide whether flipping is legal or illegal.

A post by Brent ( IL ) seems to make the most sense to me.

Here goes…

The power that be will make any attempt for justice next to impossible. Just as REALTOR association makes it next to impossible to sell homes without using the mls.

You can’t speak Chinese and expect Americans to understand, just as you can’t explain real estate flipping to Joe Consumer. Do have consensus on what happend on 9/11? Power Blackout? I doubt it.

Personally, I believe many of the arguements over IRS, FED reserve, and the creation of money ( national debt ) are valid. But you are dealing with a situation where you are the guilty party until proven innocent. The Power That Be is innocent until proven guilty.

A college buddy of mine is sitting in jail today as we speak. He’s got a 400K bond set on him and his family does’t have the money to bail him out. Allegedly, his wife committed adultery and claims he forced sexual penetration on her, along with a count of kidnapping in her own home, and terroristic threat.

He may be innocent or he may be guilty. She may be lying or could be trying to lock her husband away to live a life with her new found partner.

Your position on this matter is clear but is that what you reallly want? How many Americans you know want to be guilty until proven innocent? It will take a major event to change public opinion.

Northeast power black out, Death of JFK, world trade center 9/11, Arnold Schwartezenger, internet virus, personal bankruptcy, jail time …something major in people’s life must take place for change to occur.

I once asked Senator Paul Wellstone when and if the US will ever print its own mney again, to that he repliad it’s cheap to contract out the work. I didn’t want to make a statement to get misquoted on the 30 second news coverage so I just planned my life accordingly. America is in debt. We are in trouble. One day, I may have to educate my kids’ kids to leave this country. I hold this crazy belief that a nation in debt is one nuclear bomb away from third world starvation. War is funded with money and one day we might not have enough money.

Now that you know the scoop what are you going to do? People have killed each other over religion, politic, neighbor and family disputes. Good luck trying to prove your point. There is remote possibility that the truth will come out one day, with Uncle Sam asking, So now what?"

We are the Super Power with the most Nukes. We set the rules. Our economic and monetary policies are echoed worldwide. Many nations of the word depend on our currency and power. The world is measured by what America does today.

So what if America is in debt by the trillions but the rest of the world is in debt to us.

Right or wrong. Morrally or immorrally. Politically correct or politically incorrect. This arguement is based entirely on placing faith and trust in government. I love my country, the US of A. It is faith and trust that bond a people to use one currency. It doesn’t matter what that
"currency" is it could be apples, cattle, fiat, plastic, freckles, diamonds, gold, peanuts, the consensus is that the power that be is the one that has the power to create money. They create the system to which we live. They create what and how our economy is to operate just as the King James Bible was influenced by King James. Everything else after the King James are deemend evil or incomplete. Who’s to say that KJ is right or wrong?

I can already hear it now, “who is this kid ( me )
think he is…I was born before he was?”

To that, I must say that many people in this country will live and die in ignorance. Don’t think too hard for we have Americans today that have never traveled out of their home State in a lifetime.

Try educating people that have never traveled out of their home State about world events, politics, currencies, and fractional reserve banking.


What you say is true in IMO, but it has become a way of life. As I have stated earlier, if you want to get to the nitty gritty, the whole concept of mney is based on faith. The man that wins the fight is the champion. The man with the money owns the champion.


Re: How It Works… - Posted by Bandman

Posted by Bandman on September 05, 2003 at 21:11:25:

Yo Dude:
In the 1920’s the German government decided they didn’t need to pay interest for money either and started issuing their own fiat money. I forget how many wheelbarrow loads it took to buy a loaf of bread, but they had to pay the workers in cash a couple of times a day.

Re: How It Works… - Posted by Wesley

Posted by Wesley on September 05, 2003 at 18:49:24:

Last time I sold a house the buyers got a “loan” from a bank. As the seller I got the proceeds of that “loan”. I know for a fact that was real money because I was able to spend it on something else. Your whole argument seems to be based on no money changing hands in mortgages, but if that were the case, how did I get the proceeds of the sale?

The buyers created a note to pay that money back to the bank over time with interest. That note is an asset to the bank that they can legally and ethically sell if the bank chooses.

Ron Starr is right.

This is HORSESHHIITT - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on September 05, 2003 at 18:00:44:


This is probably all horseshhiitt. I was only able to read the first 1/3 before I stopped reading.

It is obvious to me you don’t know what is going on.

The banks do not loan bassed on the Loan as an asset.

The loan on basis of other assets the hold, such as cash, government bonds and so on.

When you don’t have a clue about how the banking system operates, I don’t seriously anything else that you have to say.

I say it again. The erase the bank loan hoax is nonsensse. Sensible people will have nothing to do with it.

Good Investing******Ron Starr***************

Re: How It Works… Or Don’t Works! - Posted by Linda Simms

Posted by Linda Simms on September 05, 2003 at 16:40:59:

This guy is nuttyer than a fruitcake. I have read and seen some explanitions of why the economy works or does not work and who is responsible for what is wrong and what is not, but this one takes the cake. He is really out of it!

Don’t waste your energy - Posted by MM

Posted by MM on September 05, 2003 at 16:26:37:

Don’t waste your energy with people who fail to grasp anything but their own egos.

Please get off your high horse - Posted by Shawn J. Dostie

Posted by Shawn J. Dostie on September 05, 2003 at 15:59:44:

You know, at one time, a militia threatened to take over the US Postal service and all their RE holdings because it was illegal. What you are espousing is crap and nothing more.

You said:
For me, the solution is in having an honest system
under which we could all abide. The solution is in
educating people to what is wrong so it can be fixed.

How can it be more honest than the bank taking back a prommissory note that you signed and promised to pay in equal monthly installments, and paying to the seller or the sellers creditors, the sum equal to the amount you signed for, less fees.
Why is it OK that you as an honest upstanding citizen, signed your name, I assume a name of good honest, ethical, moral character, now even consider taking a course of action to defraud, eliminate, get rid of, that same agreement.

Here’s an example: I sell a house to you on Land Contract for 100k plus interest using a note that spells out the details. There has been no cash exchanged. You are saying that that note, or security agreement isn’t legal. BS! If that were the case, if the banks were printing their own money, why would they need depositors? Why would they put up with rude people yapping at their tellers because of a 5 day hold? Because they pay people 2% to store their money in the bank or one of its accounts, and lend it for significantly more. It’s called capitalism. They profit off of the spread between the deposit interest paid, and the interest income from lending. It ain’t rocket science, and to say that a bank, one of the most heavily regulated industries in our nation, does not actually lend money, is the rantings of a raving lunatic.
Please don’t post this trash here! Go post it for the skinheads and the cowards who wear sheets on their head. They’ll follow you to the end of the earth.


This kind of talk disgusts me, I don’t even know why I stooped so low to post!

Re: Make these nutcase’s disappear - Posted by B

Posted by B on September 06, 2003 at 13:43:59:

I don’t care if you like the government or not. My point is not whether the government is cool or not, my point is that poeple that pull this stupid crap will eventually face the consequences of their stupid philosophies/actions. The rest of you should grow up, the whole “I hate the government” thing gets old fast, what are you doing to make things better?

The attorney general and 16 year Governor of SD - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on September 06, 2003 at 11:59:52:

is now awaiting sentencing on careless driving and speeding. In the process he killed a Minnesota farmer.

A person, in the same situation with no money, would be sitting in prison by now. Waiting for justice. :slight_smile:

This hero to many is a criminal and should be locked up. Sadly, I don’t think the guy will serve a single day in prison. Some judge that he is best freind with will get him off on a technicality.

Meanwhile, we have millions of poor people in this country that are serving time because they can’t argue why the cops were wrong and used their authority/law to enforce hatred.

I know this sounds a bit off track but goes to show that a government employee or not, has no more or less credibility in my eyes.


Re: Mortgage Elimination - Posted by me

Posted by me on September 05, 2003 at 18:57:32:

Oh, I am, but it will be more like 12-24 months. The mortgage elimination companies use a bond process which is questionable.

LOL Bandman! - Posted by dilbert

Posted by dilbert on September 06, 2003 at 08:24:13:

LOL :wink:

Just having a little fun here on CREO on a nice
weekend. Dilbert says this site is the best!

Don’t pussyfoot; what’s your real opinion? _NTXT - Posted by Brent_IL

Posted by Brent_IL on September 05, 2003 at 18:42:07:


Re: If its a loan, why is the note sold? - Posted by me

Posted by me on September 05, 2003 at 18:26:34:

Whenever I refinance, I don’t get the cancelled note back.

What alterations have been made to your promissory notes?

And, why does the bank sell or deposit your promissory note, if they’re loaning you money?

Don’t they owe you the proceeds from the sale of the note?

They’s aliens in my cornfield - Posted by Michelle

Posted by Michelle on September 05, 2003 at 18:29:36:

Hey Ron, could you come over and tell them aliens they don’t exist.

Sorry, it was too good to pass up. Just playing’

Re: Central Banking is a sham - Posted by Keith

Posted by Keith on September 05, 2003 at 16:46:35:


Actually it is not crap. The bank does not loan its depositors money, that is against Federal Reserve policies. If you read “Modern Money Mechanics” and “Two Faces of Debt”, both Federal Reserve publications you’d find that this IS true.

The promissory note is converted into a draft and deposited, which funds your loan.

The Federal Reserve buys $100 bills from the Treasury for 2.5 cents each, then loans that money out.

The interest on the national debt is paid to the Federal Reserve.

A bank loan is an exchange.

Go look up Jerome Daly v. Bank of Montgomery. He got his house back because the Court found fraud.

I’ll send you an affidavit you can try to get your banker to sign, if you want.

Lastly, when was the last time you got your cancelled note back after you refinanced or paid off?

Former House Rep in same boat - Posted by MM

Posted by MM on September 06, 2003 at 13:54:20:

Former House Rep Tom Druce is still waiting for a trial while on house arrest for a hit and run,(victim died) insurance fraud, etc and it’s been two years. If I remember correctly, OJ got off with double homicide charges. Some guy locally just hired Jonny Cochran to sue the state for false imprisonment for 27 years. Yeah to our legal system and how perfect it is.

Re: If its a loan, why is the note sold? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on September 05, 2003 at 23:23:16:


I know you have a hard time understanding things. Read carefully please.

When the loan is made, money goes to the borrower. Now, if you buy a house, you may not get the money in your pocket directly. You, as the buyer, direct that the money from the lender be paid to the seller of the house so you can become the owner of the house. But, you are the person who got the money. You are the person who benefits from the loan from the lender–bank, savings and loan, whoever is the lender. You get ownership of the house. You would not get ownership of the house if the seller of the house did not get your money–borrowed from the bank with a loan.

To ensure that the borrower will pay the loan back, the lender takes a mortgage or deed of trust against the house. If theborrower stops paying on the loan, the house is sold to get back as much money as possible to pay off the loan.

When enough payments are made, the loan is paid off and there is a document put into the county records removing the mortgage or deed of trust. Until that time, the borrower is responsible for paying back the loan. The borrower must pay back the money that bought the house.

Now, you should have gotten back the note when your old loan was paid off. Ask for it if you did not get it.

You ask: “Don’t they owe you the proceeds from the sale of the note?” What makes you think they should owe the money to the borrow when the note is paid? Then the borrower would have the money orginally borrowed to buy the house plus the borrower would have the money again when the loan is sold. That makes no sense at all.

Stop and think it through. Why should the borrower get money when the loan is sold? The borrower already got the money and gave it to the seller of the house. The lender gets the money when the loan is sold. Why would the borrower possibly have any reason to get more money? Remember, the borrower already got the money when the loan was made.

Good Investing*********Ron Starr************

Re: If its a loan, why is the note sold? - Posted by Wesley

Posted by Wesley on September 05, 2003 at 18:58:21:

Simple…When the bank sells a mortgage they are getting repaid the funds they advanced to the borrower when the mortgage was created.

STOP PICKING ON RON - Posted by Michelle

Posted by Michelle on September 05, 2003 at 18:32:10:

You’re gonna give him a heart attack!!!