My experience working for GURUs - Posted by Jim

Posted by Mark R in KCMO on April 08, 1999 at 12:50:54:


I guess that is why you hang around Gurus.

Just for you information apparently you are unaware that Newsgroup II is where information on Guru’s is to be discussed.

Maybe your Guru info will be more impressive over there.

I’m Sorry I was unable to help you.

Mark R in KCMO

My experience working for GURUs - Posted by Jim

Posted by Jim on April 06, 1999 at 15:30:27:

Having worked for many gurus and having a very deep understanding of the inner sanctum, here is my 2 cents.

1st - There is nothing wrong with selling information as long as what you are selling is the truth and if worked, can do what is promised.

2nd - There are no new ways of doing the business, only repackaging. Having worked with and for the top gurus, nothing new under the sun.

3rd - ANY guru who states they will be your partner or put up the money if you buy their information is simply scamming. You are either in the selling of information business or you are in the developing partnership (LOCAL) business increasing your own personal portfolio - YOU CANNOT DO BOTH - Full Stop! There is simply not enough profit margin, manpower, systems, and expertise to both at the same time.

4th - Only 2 major gurus that I know (key word is major) either still or have ever bought and sold 1 single family house.

5th - The #1 problem I have seen with gurus and why they get in trouble is not if the information works (see 2nd line), it is because of refunds. For all of you wanna be gurus, NEVER mess with refunds.

You see Nationwide has been smart to the degree their refunds are kept at bay and are probably much higher than normal, usually 10-15%. I do understand some folks have unsuccessfully tried for their refunds. Believe me, if you follow some simple procedures, YOU WILL GET A REFUND. Just because Nationwide offers to be your partner or put up money (even though I know it is false) they will never get in trouble for this sort of advertising.

Where they will get in trouble is messing with refunds


P.S. Someone please develop spell check for newsgroups

Re: My experience working for GURUs - Posted by Jim Kennedy

Posted by Jim Kennedy on April 08, 1999 at 14:58:26:

While not necessarily wishing to prolong the discussion between you and Mark, as both of you have presented your respective positions clearly, I would, however, appreciate knowing the response to Bob’s earlier question regarding the 4th point in your original post.

You wrote, “Only 2 major gurus that I know … either still or have ever bought and sold 1 single family house.”

Bob asked you to identify those two gurus. I, too, would be very interested in the answer. Others who post here may be interested as well.

In your original post you also indicated that you have worked for many gurus. I would be very interested to know which ones.


Jim Kennedy
Houston, TX

Ok Deep Throat, What’s Your Point? - Posted by BRnBA

Posted by BRnBA on April 07, 1999 at 24:23:09:

Educate me Deep Throat, who are the only 2 major gurus YOU know (key word is major) either still or have ever bought and sold 1 single family house? If you are concerned about folks who have usuccessfully tried for refunds, why don’t you enlighten them?
P.S. Please check my spelling before I develop

Re: My experience working for GURUs - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on April 06, 1999 at 20:02:04:

I have to disagree with the fact that there are no new ways of doing the business.

Laws change every day. Which create new types of entities, new ways to structure agreements, new tax breaks, etc. An example, before 1997 there was no 500K capital gain for free on marital residences just for living there 2 years.

Technology and computers have grown exponentially. 20 years ago you couldn’t fax a contract, email your realtor/seller/buyer/tenant, no automatic bank drafts, no electronic credit card processing. In 1997, my county put its tax rolls and its recordings onto the internet for FREE. I can research a property very thoroughly within 10 minutes. I can locate property information in nothing flat nowadays. In 1979 you would think we were talking George Jetson.

How about if you went to your local bank in 1980 and said “I would like to have a home equity line of credit, or adjustable rate mortgage, or a reverse payment mortgage.” 99% of the bankers would give you a blank stare because they wouldn’t know what you were talking about.

I could go on and on but I won’t.

so… what exactly are you selling? - Posted by David S

Posted by David S on April 06, 1999 at 19:07:48:

  1. if you are trying to impress others, you have missed the boat.

  2. although repackaging is true with most information sellers, to say that there are no new ways of doing business is a crock.

  3. if you only know 2 “major guru’s” that are still in the business or have ever bought/sold property, perhaps the so-called “major guru’s” you refer to aren’t really guru’s at all; just “wannabe’s”.

Thanks for sharing you vast knowledge about Nationwide and their refund/return policy.

David S

Re: My experience working for GURUs - Posted by bob

Posted by bob on April 06, 1999 at 17:15:56:

who are the two gurus that have bought and still actively buy single family homes. this information would be greatly appreciated

Spell Check for newsgroups - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on April 06, 1999 at 16:06:19:

While I do not do this, due to lack of time, it is possible to “spell check” your post on a newsgroup.
If you use Windows of any version, simply type your post in “Wordpad”, spell check it, then “right click” and choose “cut” and then go back to the form on the newsgroup and “left click” in the form input area.
Then, “right click” again, and choose “paste”. This puts your “spell checked” text to the newsgroup form.
That will work!
just my $.02

Re: My experience working for GURUs - Posted by Jim

Posted by Jim on April 09, 1999 at 11:57:14:

Nationwide is one

Re: My experience working for GURUs - Posted by Jim

Posted by Jim on April 06, 1999 at 20:49:59:

When you boil it down, it all comes back to the same basic strategies and techniques.

For instance, instead of writing or calling a Realtor you can now e-mail a Realtor the exact same message. I used to run a newspaper ad that says I BUY HOUSES - Now I send E-ADS that reads I BUY HOUSES - It still boils down to the same strategies and techniques taught by all gurus from Nick Koon to Carleton Sheets to Charles Givens.

No matter how fancy, how much more technological prowess I may have over someone else, if I didn’t know how to make money with Realtors it wouldn’t matter.

Finding Deals basically boils down to about 30-40 categories with about 5-10 variations of these categories. No guru can change them because of the underlying reason why real estate investors can be successful in this business. The only the they can change is the packaging.

When laws change, it doesn’t change the basics, motivation and meeting needs are the key.


Re: so… what exactly are you selling? - Posted by Jim

Posted by Jim on April 06, 1999 at 21:03:37:

If you take every single category for Finding A Deal, it boils down to 30-40 categories. Of those categories, some have a dozen (more or less) variations to them - THAT’S IT.

Don’t be confused. Do you really believe that you have come up with something new - wrong! You see, we all started somewhere - excuse me - you came up with all of your NATIONWIDE stuff on your own and I am sure it is proprietary.

Look quick, but there has not been one lawsuit for copying proprietary information from any guru because all gurus get the same information from every other guru. The difference is packaging and the ability to make the information sensible to it’s audience.

All technology does is give you the ability to get to information faster and communicate faster with the principles involoved. You must still come back to the same 30-40 categories.

Listen folks, if you want your money back from Nationwide, you can get it. If Nationwide messes with refunds, it spells bad news.


Re: Spell Check for newsgroups - Posted by AB

Posted by AB on April 07, 1999 at 19:45:25:

The same process works in MS Word.

Nope there are only 4 - Posted by Mark R in KCMO

Posted by Mark R in KCMO on April 06, 1999 at 22:53:19:


I’m sorry to burst your buble that you think that there are 30-40 different ways to buy real estate when there are only 4.

Lump Sum
Different form

The real Question is what is the point of this post?

With regard to the rest of your information I think it all can be simply stated as:


For More info

Re: Nope there are only 4 - Posted by Jim

Posted by Jim on April 08, 1999 at 08:05:36:

That’s the difference between beginners and advanced.

When you read my post, it specifically states FINDING THE DEAL - not financing a deal. Pieces, lump sum, different form, combination are all financing related - NOT FINDING TECHNIQUES.

If you believe that there are not 30-40 categories for FINDING THE DEAL, please throw away anything that has to do with Pre-foreclosures, auctions, HUD/VA, Fannie Mae, Realtors, Run Ads, Flyers, Bird Dogs, FSBO, Vacants, etc and I will buy your share.

I am not sure how you FIND deals with pieces and lump sums, but I will find them the proven way.


Re: Nope there are only 2 - Posted by Mark R in KCMO

Posted by Mark R in KCMO on April 08, 1999 at 09:28:57:


I’m sorry I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Finding the deals only involves 2 steps Lead generation, and screening.

If I were to compare it to Selling Blue paint, you are saying that you would classify differently all items that could or do use blue paint. That is not where you should be focusing your effort.

You should only be looking for people who need to buy blue paint. THrough your screening process detrmine which delivery method would be best for them.

Score another miss Jim DO NOT RECOMMEND

Mark R in KCMO

Re: Nope there are only 2 - Posted by Jim

Posted by Jim on April 08, 1999 at 11:42:17:

If you wrote a book how to FIND DEALS, like LeGrand-Sheets-Givens, your book would be awful small. Your book would consist of Lead Generation & Screening.


I would rather study the 30-40 categories of actually Finding Deals (you see nothing happens until you find it) and then use my creative financing techniques to make my multiple offers.

I encourage you to buy the blue paint you spoke of earlier and I will find motivated sellers.

When you write your book with your 2 options - I will NOT BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND!

Sorry about that