Don’t do it man… put down the keyboard and step away from the computer… - Posted by David
Posted by David on March 21, 2000 at 17:36:55:
Since I was part of that discussion, I have some vested interest here. I took no offense and did not use the S*** word. If everybody had the same opinion, this would be a boring world. Keep the input coming you as well, as other have much to give and share.
David
Mugging the Messenger - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on March 21, 2000 at 17:36:37:
I’d be gone a long time ago if I hadn’t developed more of a thick skin. I had to to do this game.
It means a couple things. One is what I write can be mis-interpreted and I have been at times. That sucks, because then it seems to take a lot of time to straighten it out. I now spend more time on my posts first. I hit the “Reset” button a lot more and move on.
Another thing is I need to be more tactful at times and I’ve made progress. I don’t do as many “How do you look in Stripes” posts that start battles.
BUT, at times we all need to speak up - especially someone that does know vs. someone who thinks they know. The beauty of it all is there is a great deal of experience and wisdom here. Yet, it doesn’t reside all in one person.
Great ideas and neat new approaches mix in well with the “wisdom of the ages”. Sometimes they don’t mix, because someone with a deeper legal background or experience in a particular area feels the need to say - “WHOA! WAIT A MINUTE” - what you think is a road flare is really dynamite.
I read Eduardo’s post earlier though I haven’t read the original thread you started. I just re-read it and I don’t think his goal or intent was to slam you. In the posts I’ve seen from him, he’s been around a long time and has some good experience to share.
If he hadn’t written that post someone else might have and probably should have. The word “Scam” is a strong one, but I think it is referring to the process of deceiving people - not to you.
Sometimes we view this as a chat around a small living room instead of a post that is read by thousands and could be read by millions. If it is to be a safe, quality educational environment, sometimes a loud, even blunt statement may need to be made in response to a post.
We could all use a little more tact at times - and thicker skins. It is so easy to mis-read or mis-apply what is said.
Someone could indeed get into trouble using some kind of technique or even calculation that could be construed as deceptive. It’s hard enough to avoid the chuckholes out there when you are trying hard to steer around them. You can work your hardest to treat someone right and be clear and straight forward and still end up in court or battles.
One of the biggest problems in this industry in the past has been exotic and exciting sounding techniques that when mis-applied get people into trouble. It doesn’t matter sometimes what the intent was. Sometimes and approach like “what the seller (or bank) doesn’t know doesn’t hurt them” can have nearly the same result as “I’m going to take advantage of that seller!” - especially if “Legalman” gets a hold of it.
The worst part is that the courts always jump to a negative conclusion. They’ll take a simple mistake to be “sinister” and if you actually mean’t to be vague or deceptive in the slightest - you’re toast.
Your contributions are as valuable here as anyone else’s. We all need to realize at times that there are thousands here and what is said can be mis-interpreted or mis-applied. In that light, it’s not only valuable to have someone point out the risks - but essential.
I run into that constantly with some of the lending practices that are advocated. I really dislike having to jump in and be “Mr Loan Cop” and rain on someone’s “great idea”, but I can’t be quiet when I see or know risks, laws, etc. that can hurt people.
It’s neither popular nor fun. Yet, sometimes we really need to look at the downside and potential risk. We do need to critically analyse the message - hopefully without mugging the messenger.
Stay around. We value your contribution. As the saying goes “if two people agree - one isn’t needed”. The power of all of this is everyone sharing - yet being open to other’s input and even “reproof” of their ideas or concepts at times.
C’mon, that was nothing, did you see the beating I took a few weeks ago… - Posted by Ben (NJ)
Posted by Ben (NJ) on March 21, 2000 at 17:19:03:
I had a little spat with Ed Garcia over some insensitive ethnic remarks and got lambasted by no less than 35 people calling me a loser, telling me to get a life, that I would never be a success in RE (too late!). I am still here. Dust off and get back in there, our newbies need us. Ben Caiola
Yo, Scott… - Posted by Scott (AK)
Posted by Scott (AK) on March 21, 2000 at 17:10:19:
What’s going on here?
I have read the threads and think you are making a hasty, but wrong decision.
Like Bill Gatten has said so well, we DO have to be aware of the size of the audiance when we answer a question. Does that mean we won’t make mistakes…NO!
I see it as you made an honest mistake. We all know motivated sellers will do some wild things…we all do.
I’m not going to rehash what Bill has said but I want to say again…A while back Jpiper and I had a chat in the chat room (And YES I am quite sure he won’t remember this one either) but we did discuss how we thought it was important for the answers people give to be accurate. As you will notice, I hardly ever post on any subject matter except L/O’s and some other basic things I know exactly what I am talking about. I don’t do that out of fear or whatever, I just have considered the audiance.
In short Scott, if you TRULY are concerned about being a helper and wanting the site to flourish, I think the right thing to do is recognize the things Bill speaks about and swallow your pride and continue to post.
C’mon baby, let’s get on with it…too many deals to do to go this route.
See you around! (And YES, That’s an order!)
ScottS
Re: My Last post. - Posted by Bill Gatten
Posted by Bill Gatten on March 21, 2000 at 16:29:21:
Scott,
I, for one, respectfully request that you overlook the comments you are referring to, and continue your very valued and insightful posting here. I have enjoyed kibitzing with you over the past two years and recognize you as a very knowledgeable individual in CRE matters (albeit sometime opinionated…like many of us?ME?and that?s not all bad, by any means). Furthermore, you are one of the few that I?ve managed to win over.
I think what people forget all too often, is that these group posts are not just letters on a screen. I have had to learn that the hard way in the past couple of weeks. What people write here is no different from standing in front of an audience and making statements about someone. When aspersions are cast, they are seen by thousands, and can cut deeply enough to affect people and their lives for years to come.
I joined an internet writing class once, and the coach was so catty and sarcastic and rude, that if she?d been close enough, there were a few times I might have poked her in the eyeball with a mop handle.
May of us who sit in our offices and our cars for most of every day, too often forget that we’re not just transcribing our musings when we post on these sites. We may forget at times that we?re are communicating with a live human being, and that our conversation is being broadcast over the entire globe. I, for one, many times have felt that I was totally alone in my office when I was responding to someone ones post, and that there was no one there but me and the addressee. I am always surprised that anyone pays any attention to what I say most of the time anyway?but they do. Obviously, one should be EXTRA careful about the feelings of the person who is the object of the post (there are another 999 bystanders listening and hearing?loud and clear?without the slightest doubt (in their own minds) as to what was said to whom, and when it was said). If you are I are talking personally, I can always say ?I didn?t say that!? or ?Wait, let me tell you what I really meant.? However, in these discussion groups when we punch that ?post? button it?s too late.
Like I said, Scott, I know nothing of the offensive or hurtful comments you’re are referring to, but I think very highly of you and have spoken with you enough to know that you are a most valuable asset to thus board and to those who post and lurk here on this site. Most importantly know that even I (without ever meaning to) have hurt some feelings with my posts on other boards??didn?t mean to; wasn?t being intentionally mean-spirited; etc. but it happened and I was guilty.
Know that if someone is on this board is intentionally mean-spirited, it won?t be long until they will lose interest here. If they?re not that type and they merely hurt your feelings?then it?s not likely to happen again. Don?t think that any one person?s opinion of you, or what you do, matters to the rest of the lurkers or posters here?it doesn?t. Those things are so inconsequential to most of us that they?re not worth responding to.
Do you think for a second that if someone said Jim Piper or Ed Wachsman was a jerk, that John Behle or Bill Bronchik would waste time on a response or a defense? Of course not.
From me to you Scott (personally, but with a bunch of witnesses)?I ask that you please reconsider your decision.
Bill Gatten
wrong decision… - Posted by Trandle
Posted by Trandle on March 21, 2000 at 16:07:29:
I understand that if the powers that be have asked you to leave, then that’s their prerogative, but I don’t believe that’s the case. You’ve apologized in case anyone was misled. What else is there? This newsgroup is a learning tool. We all make mistakes and have differences of opinion. That’s what makes it great. Anyone who doesn’t have the natural intelligence to think for themselves and enough innate skepticism to understand not everything printed on this board is gospel won’t make it anyway. If you’ve just angered some folks, get a thicker skin. You’ve contributed more than most, so don’t quit. That’s my opinion…
Everyone makes mistakes… - Posted by Pavon Bailey
Posted by Pavon Bailey on March 21, 2000 at 15:58:41:
…but you would be silly to stop posting on here, Mr. Scott. No one said you were ignorant. So what if you had a miscalculation or gave someone incorrect advice. SO WHAT!!! Who knows if they even took it to heart. Scott, to me your posts-as well as everyone else’s posts-will always be welcome. But don’t run just because someone said you were wrong. Just stand corrected and move on. No one is perfect in life, and whoever tells you that he or she is “the perfect investor” neds to go get a check up. That person is obviously living in a dream world.
Don’t quit, Scott. Your posts are welcome here. If JP and Terry Vaughan told you to leave, that’s understandable. They own this site. But if anyone else tells you to leave…to HELL with them!
Keep at it and you’ll become a great investor. But that will never happen if you just quit and don’t come back here on a whim.
Enjoy your day and happy investing to you.
FLAME ON!!! (but don’t burn any bridges smiles)
Pavon
Yaaaaaaaaaaay! He’s BACK to STAY!! (nt) - Posted by SusanL–FL
Posted by SusanL–FL on March 23, 2000 at 08:15:25:
nt.
Re: Scotty…??? - Posted by Bassman
Posted by Bassman on March 22, 2000 at 16:18:17:
Thank you.
Scotty Cooper
WOW Jim after that I will take the time to post more often. - Posted by Nancy Cason
Posted by Nancy Cason on March 22, 2000 at 14:16:40:
I wish I could turn a phrase like Jim Piper.
Nancy
Is that a … - Posted by David Alexander
Posted by David Alexander on March 22, 2000 at 12:03:14:
of all the people you’ve taken shots… errr, debated with…? 
The wheels are still rolling, sometimes not as fast but nevertheless still rolling.
Great Post Jim.
David Alexander
Re: One more thought - post more - Posted by DeiDei ¶
Posted by DeiDei ¶ on March 22, 2000 at 10:46:05:
Well said John, very well said indeed !!..nt
NADA - Posted by Nancy Cason
Posted by Nancy Cason on March 22, 2000 at 14:03:37:
Jacob,
Do you offer the wholesale value when buying?
Nancy
I love you, Jacob! I even ordered the (gasp) NADA guide so I can do Jacob deals!! nt - Posted by OzarkMark
Posted by OzarkMark on March 22, 2000 at 06:00:11:
nt
I concur with John, Scott, Bill, Trandle, Pavon,and Ben,STAY! (NT). - Posted by David
Posted by David on March 21, 2000 at 17:44:56:
nt
Fortunately we HAVE “loan cops” like you and Ed G! nt - Posted by CarolFL
Posted by CarolFL on March 22, 2000 at 07:02:25:
.
Wow Nice Post John nt - Posted by phil fernandez
Posted by phil fernandez on March 21, 2000 at 21:10:37:
nt
preach on brother (great post)…NT - Posted by tang-0-rang
Posted by tang-0-rang on March 21, 2000 at 17:48:36:
nt
Re: C’mon, that was nothing, did you see the beating I took a few weeks ago… - Posted by Lib Cassin
Posted by Lib Cassin on March 22, 2000 at 04:37:18:
Ben:
As a total newbie, I can totally attest to your wisdom, we/I have a huge, embarrassing, overwhelming need for you wiser-ones and are deeply grateful for everything posted. I get up from 2:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. every night to get on here and soak up the language, the wisdom, the culture, I take notes and in my lunch hour I go to the library and look up the words I dont understand, and now I have co-opted a realtor once a week, (I buy the subway sandwich, he answers my questions) so, yes, oh yes, oh yes, we the newbies do have great need of you, and Bassman and every single one of you
Thank you!
When in Rome, eat the Romans. - Posted by HR
Posted by HR on March 21, 2000 at 19:40:04:
Scott,
I think you need to step back a bit. I, for one, haven’t the foggiest clue what you are talking about. You will forgive me, but I (and a bunch of others, I suspect) don’t follow every post with baited breath. And that’s what makes this site so great. Posts vanish quick; it’s easy to forget and forgive.
If you are giving bad advice… (snicker, snicker) shame on you. So withhold in the advice department until you are sure you know what you know. And if you share and learn you don’t know what you thought you knew, isn’t that something important to know?
I haven’t a clue what Ben is referring to regarding his tar and feathering, but it’s gone. What I do know is I like Ben’s posts, especially regarding tax liens. If Ben got offended and stopped posting, it would be a loss to this site.
Right now, for example, I have some intellectual crouton on NGII who is hammering me and questioning my integrity because he can’t read. C’est la vie. It goes with the turf.
Again, I don’t know what this is about. But if some experienced folk here are telling you to chill with your posts, you need to seriously consider whether or not they are right. Maybe you need to chill for awhile. I don’t know; only you know. I think you will regret your self-imposed censorship, though.
Just my two cents.
HR