Need Honest Feedback - Posted by Kevin

Posted by Cat on July 20, 2003 at 22:26:39:

Hi Everyone - I am new to the list.

I just bought Carleton’s material and am reading this web site for the first time.

I thought the entire idea was to be able to buy property without any money and without any credit! ??

I have owned several homes and when I re-invested into my last property, I lost everything. Two reasons: my husband was out of work for 2 years; and the property I bought, the taxes tripled in 3 years. I kid you not.
So I had to dump at a huge loss and we had to file bankruptcy as well.

Because of various things, we are having to start totally over.

So I will be interested to read how I can rebuild my real estate holdings with no money and no credit and low income.

If one doesn’t have money for large downpayment and no credit I understand that one can assume a CD by convincing the seller that one can make the payments.

But we are not in the same position that we both were 5 years ago, so I will find it truly amazing to find out how I can get cash back (as advertised) from a deal where I don’t put anything down.

It sounds too good to be true, but I am eager to read the materials. Maybe we’ll just have to start with a teeny weeny house and work our way up again.

Cheers, Cat

Need Honest Feedback - Posted by Kevin

Posted by Kevin on July 03, 2003 at 04:08:49:

Straight to the point:

I am 26 years old, and I have been married for a year now. My wife and I are expecting twins in September. My wife and I are both teachers, and considerably concerned about our financial situation with the new arrivals on the way.

I have seen Carleton Sheets’ program (as well as John Beck’s “Free and Clear”) on television hundreds of times it seems. I have always dismissed these believing it is impossible to make money as easy as they (the infomercials) make it out to be.

Are either of these programs legit? Will they work? I really, really hope you all can give me some good, honest feedback. My wife and I really cannot afford to flush good money down the toilet on a pipe dream that will not work. We need something real.

Thank you so much in advance to all of those who reply.


Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by Brian

Posted by Brian on July 07, 2003 at 24:24:43:

Just from the tone of your post I’m guessing your not as committed to RE investing as you need to be when investing in a Sheets-type program. I would suggest talking to local real estate agents, RE attorneys, and lenders, check out the classified ads from week to week and wait for a good, inexpensive property to come on the market. Buy that and rent it out just to get your feet wet. Bottom line: do your homework before you do anything.

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by ecb

Posted by ecb on July 05, 2003 at 18:49:25:


First, congrats for the new children. Your life will certainly change.

About Carleton Sheets (or any other “guru” for that matter – including these and other message boards) –

Don’t view any of it as “black and white.” Instead, consider them as a source of ideas. Take what you like and discard the rest. Try things. Experiment. Run ideas by your advisory team (CPA, attorney, REA —you have that team assembled, right?).

Can you buy a house with no money down? Yes. I’ve done it — here you go:

House across the street from me went into B/K. Eventually, HUD ended up owning it. They wanted $59k. I bid $45k and they countered at $58.9. I declined and waited another three months. Went back and bid $45k again. They accepted. I used a home equity line of credit (i.e., I borrowed against the home I live in) to put $4,500 down and financed the rest conventionally. The property appraised out for the bank at $57,500. Did I use any of my “own” money…nope. I essentially used part of my year end bonus to pay the home equity loan off. So, aside from the interest I paid on the loan until I paid it off, I used none of my own funds. I did put about $10k into it. Monthly P/I/T/I are about $275. It rents for $525 a month.

The above example worked because of patience, KNOWING what I wanted to do, and the circumstances of the fact that HUD (or banks) are not in the business of owning real estate. Can I do that 4 or 5 times a month – I don’t know as I’ve not tried…but it might prove difficult. Could you do it 4 or 5 times a year – perhaps.

My suggestion is get a TEXT on real estate investing (not infocommercial stuff) and read it (I recommend "Real Estate Finance and Investment Manual "by Jack Cummings) that covers a broad spectrum of the entire PART of real estate investing — financing and purchasing are only the front end of this “marriage.” Read it cover to cover. Then talk with realtors…accountants…lawyers…etc.

Probably the best advise I can give you before you do anything — KNOW WHAT IT IS YOU WANT AND INTEND TO DO (i.e, do you want to rent it out or sell it, are you looking to rehab or not, do you want residential, commercial, industrial, or mobile homes, etc.?). This will allow for focus. Understand that what you want and intend to do is transactional in nature and can change from one deal to the next. However, everything should be consistent with your long-range, medium, and short-range objectives (financially or otherwise).

Good luck.


Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by John (Rome)

Posted by John (Rome) on July 04, 2003 at 13:11:48:


congratulations on your new arrivals…now…is it possible to invest in real estate with little money? yes on the other hand is everyone capable or willing to do what it takes to get there? absolutely not…

carleton is a basic blue print - a lot of it is out of date but it’s the overall picture that can help…on which one definitely has to build…

in the end though it’s up to you and you alone…but do follow Ron Starr’s advice…and reand this site if nothing else - it’s free.

best of luck…


Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by kevin knez

Posted by kevin knez on July 04, 2003 at 03:22:01:

Hey Kevin,
I think before you spend your money you should check do a google search for carleton sheets. There you will find a review written by John T. Reed. It was very informative and could save you some hard earned money.

Good Luck
Kevin K.

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by John

Posted by John on July 03, 2003 at 19:22:09:

For what it may be worth remember there are alot of ways to be successful in RE.I will admit that I had the same concerns you did when I first started investing in RE. The Sheets course was the foundation I used to begin my investment career. So far I have purchased 11 properties (two 5 unit apartment buildings and a single family house)with no money down. I have a very nice positive cash flow each month. However the key is to continue to learn and read other investors and study their ways because they have the experience and have made the mistakes that you want to avoid.
Good Luck

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on July 03, 2003 at 09:23:36:


Nice to communicate with you.

I don’t think that any of us can give you a clear answer to your questions. We don’t know you. We don’t know where you are even.

In some parts of the country virtually any real estate investing technique will work very well. In a few parts of the country virtually none of them will work very well, such as here in Coastal CA.

Most people who buy those programs do not even try to do anything with them. Of those who do try, most make only a feeble effort, it seems to me. Some people get very excited at the prospect of wealth. After about four months they find they aren’t wealthy and they quit. Some become AMWAY salespersons. Some fall for all sorts of other get-rich-quick schemes.

Those who seriously study and persist do become wealthy with real estate. Very few do so.

To work full time and also invest in real estate is difficult. It takes dedication and effort. I would think that it would be made more difficult by having to deal with a totally new situation of the infants.

And, even if you are successful in real estate investing, you probably will not be seeing much money for several years.

If you can live on 90% of your income and have done so, then I think your chances for success goes up dramatically. If you have not been saving at least 10% of your income, I think your chances are not very good.

You will find those programs advertised on e-bay for lower prices than retail, especially Sheet’s. I got his 16 audio tapes for under $10 there, including shipping.

If you are willing to endure many years of working over and above your paid jobs, you could be successful with real estate. Few people seem dedicated enough to their futures to do so. Not knowing you, I can’t guess your prospects.

I commend you to my post for beginners which you can read by putting “beginners success” into the search function at the top of the main board of this CREONLINE.COM website.

Good InvestingRon Starr**

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by RichV(FL)

Posted by RichV(FL) on July 03, 2003 at 08:54:24:


Why not try the Sheets book? Its only about 15 bucks on Amazon. After reading it you can decide if the course is right for you or not.

Carleton Sheets, John Beck and others just provide information, these courses are not cookbooks but simply guidelines. Its up to you to mold the techniques into you own situation.

Best of luck,


Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on July 05, 2003 at 22:48:57:

If you take an equity loan against YOUR personal property, you are borrowing against your own equity, which is the same as using your own money. You get a $4500 equity loan, your home has $4500 less equity. You have the $4500 in your possession. It IS your money. So you did use your own money in this deal.

You took $4500 from your house and used that money to buy the other house. So you did put your own money down on this deal.

The idea is to use other peoples money. Not your own money, which includes using your own money taken out against your own personal property. The money you borrow against YOUR equity in YOUR personal property IS using your own money.

Get the money from the equity in the property you are buying, not your own personal property.

Nothing wrong with doing it the way you did, but you did use your own money since that money was secured against your own equity against your personal property. If you didn’t own your own home and have the equity in it to borrow against, you wouldn’t have had the $4500 to put down.

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by dell-ohio

Posted by dell-ohio on July 04, 2003 at 22:06:38:

If you want to get seriously depressed, read John T.Reed. Someone who does not invest in Real Estate.

If you want to get motivated, educated and make a lot of money in real estate, stay away from John T. Reed. Read people like Robert Shemin and others who are actively buying real-estate as their main source of income.

I bought my first property withing 48 hhours after I read Robert Allen (who Reed hates) The CHallenge. One idea paid me #3,000 and a motorcycle within 60 days of reading this, my first, real estate book.

Then I signed up for the three day boot camp $3,000+ and although Robert Allen is not the person with the soundest real estate experience. I will forever be indebted to him for making me BELIEVE that it was possible.

I have purchased 11 properties since JAn. All at least 20% below market value all with no money down.

I am having the time of my life, I am making very good money, I wouldnt trade it for anything.

I suggest you read success stories, then how to stories, pick what appeals to you then work that like hell.

My viewpoint dell-ohio

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by Rich - Coastal CA

Posted by Rich - Coastal CA on August 04, 2003 at 15:49:19:

Actually, coastal Orange County California is a great place to buy with (almost) nothing down right now. I bought two houses on a lot within 2 miles of the ocean in April for $650K, and it cost me $640 by the time closing was done. In June, I bought a duplex about six streets from the ocean for $665K, and it cost me less than $1 bottom line. Now I have reduced my income tax burden by 85%, and I have about the right amount of cash in the bank to handle normal emergencies, so I don’t plan to buy any more for about a year. Already, I have raised rents and kept the tenants happy to the tune of $1,100 monthly, but I’m still taking a negative of about $3,500 per month on the bottom line. I believe the hold, rent and refi investment strategy, using depreciation and interest deductions to make my salary work for my retirement. But I have to admit I have a great salary now, and like my job, which I plan to hold for at least four years before social security starts to kick in. By then, with coastal house prices going up about five to six percent per year for the last twenty years, and with unemployment in Orange County at 3.9% in June, life is very good here.

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by ecb

Posted by ecb on July 06, 2003 at 11:19:52:


Agreed. My point is that I did not have to come up with cash out of my pocket. I merely took one asset and converted it to cash to finance the purchase, carried the interest for a brief point in time, and then, ultimately, as you correctly point out, used an additional cash source ( a bonus), to pay off the HELOC.

HELOCs are a great way to fund the down payment. I concur that using equity in another property other than your home is a better way.



Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by John (Rome)

Posted by John (Rome) on July 06, 2003 at 08:14:48:

John - but you would agree (and I believe you do ) that it’s a valid way (albeit not an OPM deal technically for the reasons you just pointed out) of going about kickstarting oneself into the kiddie pool of REI?..If nothing else for the leverage he pulled out his money



Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on July 06, 2003 at 08:57:08:

Absolutely. I said there was nothing wrong with doing it that way. Just that technically he did use his own money, albeit the money came from the equity in his own property.

Can you do it that way? Sure. Does it work? Of course. Is there anything wrong with doing it that way? Not at all. It’s just not a true no money down deal.

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by Carl Johnson

Posted by Carl Johnson on July 25, 2003 at 13:02:38:


Long time no posts. Did you just get out of prison or something? Just kidding buddy! Did you ever sell you cleaners? Give us an update on things there in Shamberg. How many houses have you sold this summer?

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by Rich Hyams

Posted by Rich Hyams on July 07, 2003 at 09:10:26:

Its actually better than hard money. Probably even better than what I am doing. I have an unsecured credit line, interest rate 7.75%, a home equity line would be cheaper.

The only reason I did the unsecured was that I didn’t want my wife to have to sign anything, its just easier that way.

Re: Need Honest Feedback - Posted by JAMES(NOR CAL)

Posted by JAMES(NOR CAL) on September 20, 2003 at 03:05:09:

I am a newbie. I have over $50,000 equity in our home, good credit, and a stable job. However, my wife will not go along with a home equity loan. So, I will probably borrow money thru credit cards initially. It’s good to know someone else has “wife” issues, LOL.