Need info on Joe Kaiser's BIZ program - Posted by Eric Anderson

Real Estate Investing
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Posted by JoeKaiser on February 17, 2000 at 02:19:01:

That pretty much brings us right back to the original problem - placing an accurate number on the cost of the repairs.

I believe it boils down to this . . . the seller receives an accurate estimate of the actual costs of repairs by a licensed contrator, and, of course, I expect to receive full credit for assuming the responsibility of taking on those repairs.

What I ultimately end up paying for the repair work is immaterial and none of the seller’s business.

Joe

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Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by Eric Anderson

Posted by Eric Anderson on February 14, 2000 at 12:46:09:

I am interested in foreclosures, and I like what I read on Joe’s website about his BIZ program. What I need now is to visit with someone who has used the program. There are 36 counties across the country listed as “sold”, so there should be someone with actual hands-on experience.

Before I go off the deep end, is there anybody out there actually doing this program who can tell me if the BIZ is working for them, and is profitable? Also interested in opinions on the training. Would very much appreciate knowing about profits and pitfalls before I take the plunge.

thanks, Eric

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Re: Thanks to all who responded and to JP - Posted by Eric Anderson

Posted by Eric Anderson on February 18, 2000 at 11:13:17:

A big Thank You to all who responded, it certainly helped clear up the questions in my mind. Special appreciation to Ted and Frank. It is seldom easy to lay out problems for everyone to see.

Sharing helpful information is what this board is all about. It is a tremendous tool for self-improvement.

And, of course, huge thanks to JP who makes it all possible. She has added so much to the knowledge and skills of so many people.

And Joe, thanks to you for joining the discussion. I’m looking forward to learning more about your new program “The Instant Investor”.

Eric

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by Ted

Posted by Ted on February 16, 2000 at 15:49:30:

Let me preface this by saying it is all my opinion. It?s worth less than what you are paying for it.

I can tell you that a couple of people have had success with ?The Biz?.
It is exactly as advertised but it is not what the associates thought was advertised.
Joe is a master marketer. Like all great marketers he sells a dream. Not many people do this as well as Joe Kaiser does. A couple come to mind. Wade Cook and William McCorkle.

?Just you and me knocking out one deal after another.? What does that mean? 3 deals a week? One every couple of years? Beats me. But don?t worry ?cause ?soon we?ll make some good things happen.?

Take what I say with a grain of salt. Some of Joe?s techniques just rub me the wrong way. I read the CONTRACTOR FACTOR on this web site and I think, ?Is this the kind of guy I want to do business with?? ?If he does this to a Seller what is he going to do to me ? a customer?? Don?t get me wrong; most of us, even I, have stretched the truth now and again. When I do it I know I have not been ethical or acted properly and I feel bad about. I make a real effort to fix the damage and vow not to let it ever happen again.

But few, if any, of us would feel good about conspiring with a contractor to lie to a Seller about the price of repairs. I am sure none of us would proudly publish it as an acceptable business practice.

About a year ago someone on this board asked about the missing marketing brochure that is advertised as being included with Totally Dominate Your Foreclosure Marketplace. It turns out that the brochure is (or was) not in the material. At least it wasn?t in my copy of the course either. Joe posted something like, ?I?ll get that fixed any day now.? All I can say is that I still don?t have a brochure.

Despite all of the above I do own Totally Dominate Your Foreclosure Marketplace and a couple of other of Joe?s courses. Yes they are worth the money. Yes I did learn something. No they don?t stand on their own, but they can be a valuable addition to an investor?s library. Would I buy any more of Joe?s material? No, not now.

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by Mary Lambert

Posted by Mary Lambert on February 15, 2000 at 13:14:10:

How did you find oput about his BIZ and where is his web site

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by FrankPghPA

Posted by FrankPghPA on February 15, 2000 at 08:19:45:

Eric…I am one of the original investors in “The Biz” who dropped out. My reason for dropping was that it involved more time and effort than I was willing to devote to it. However, I still tell people who ask me, that it’s a very good and worthwhile program.

I don’t know what improvements Joe has made but basically, you do the initial research on properties going into foreclosure, make contact with the home owner being foreclosed on and then turn the deal over to Joe. He handles the negotiations from there for you. There are also some follow-ups on your part after Joe goes to work on it. The software he includes with “The Biz” [and his other courses too] is excellent.

I have been a BIG fan of Joe’s for years and still am. I have his Foreclosure course, “The Ultimate Lease Option Strategy” Course, “Mechanic’s Lien” Course, and “Abandoned Properties” Course, and highly recommend all of them, as well as “The Biz.” They’re all well-organized and fairly simple to follow. And, Joe also adds supplemental material in his courses that show different ways you can use his ideas.

For example, in his “Ultimate Lease Option” Course which emphasizes finding the “Tired Landlord” by using Eviction Notices, he also explains how to use his strategy by tracking down FSBO’s and FRBO’s using newspaper ads [no, it’s not the old “call them on the phone and get tons of negative reactions from sellers stuff”]. His “Bingo, Bango, Bongo Tenant
Acquisition System”[TM] alone, is worth the price of the course.

Forget about that “white space” cr*p! It has nothing to do with “content.”

Joe writes in a very easy-to-read style and offers excellent information on “How To” do deals. Joe is also a “Player” who does deals, not somebody who just writes and sells courses.

Joe’s strongest asset, in my opinion, is his ability to look at different situations and pick out details which most of us overlook. He then finds a way to use that info to make it profitable.

Hope this helps…
Good Hunting…

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Good questions, Eric. - Posted by Ron

Posted by Ron on February 14, 2000 at 20:59:42:

Joe K certainly has many fans here. I bought his Foreclosure course and wasn’t real impressed by it, but I seem to be in a very small minority.

What has really intrigued me, though, is his “Biz”. He started it up a year or two ago and made some very aggressive/optimistic claims. The intriguing part is that I have never seen a single comment from a single participant here. I can only assume that he forbids participants from disclosing their results. Otherwise, someone surely would have commented here – positive or negative. After all, someone does occasionally raise the same question you did.
I’m not suggesting anything critical about his deal, it is just very strange that he supposedly has dozens of investors involved (at a fairly high cost per investor) and yet their progress is never mentioned here.
Just wondering.

Ron Guy

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Here’s the skinny . . . - Posted by JoeKaiser

Posted by JoeKaiser on February 14, 2000 at 20:57:43:

I’ve been unhappy at the lack of success of many of the Biz Associates. Frankly, it’s probably my fault. I set it up originally in such a way that there just were way too many “hoops” for us all to jump through.

And the east coast - west coast thing, telephone tag, etc. proved to be problematic.

So . . .

We’ve taken everything we’ve learned in the last couple years, done some tweaking, and are now testing our current model. It is proving to be 1000% more effective, and once we’re certain we’ve got all the bugs worked out of it, we’ll likely be accepting new associates. However, that clearly is months and months away.

Joe

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on February 14, 2000 at 20:46:46:

Looks like he’s doing something new to get people going, sounded interesting.

Maybe even for someone that just wanted to up there volume, he sure has his systems down.

David Alexander

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by Mike O

Posted by Mike O on February 14, 2000 at 20:25:24:

Eric,
I inquired about the Biz, last month, and was told they were not accepting new people at this time.

If that has changed let me know. My county is still available

Mike O

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Thanks Ted . . . - Posted by Joe Kaiser

Posted by Joe Kaiser on February 16, 2000 at 22:06:12:

Feedback is important to me, and it’s always fun to see where other people’s heads are at.

Although the Cook/McCorkle comparison is a low blow, your other points are well taken.

After this weekend I’ve decided my need to be “right” all the time is something I can do without. So, I won’t be debating you on the merits of your “selling a dream” or “contractor factor” comments other than do say I am in total disagreement with your assessment. But hey, to each his own.

Email me directly if you would like a copy of the marketing brochure thats now included in the foreclosure course.

Finally, you may find it interesting to keep tabs on both “The Biz” and our new training, “The Instant Investor.” My intentions are to post results with regularity, and I suspect and would hope that even you will acknowledge the difference between “selling the dream” and “delivering the dream,” when the numbers bear it out. Yes? No?

Thanks again,

Joe Kaiser

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by John

Posted by John on February 16, 2000 at 16:58:21:

Ted:
I disagree with your opinion, but you are entitled to it. The one point I wanted to make is that your analysis of the contractor factor article is incorrect. Joe’s contractor provides the parties with the fair market price for performing the necessary repairs - this is not “lying to the seller.” The fact that Joe does a lot of business with his contractor and that the contractor gives him a discount is irrelevant. What if Joe was a handyman and could do all the work himself – does that mean he can only discount the price based on the cost of materials only? No. Also, Joe isn’t holding a gun to the seller’s head, and the seller can go out and obtain independent estimates on his own from one or more contractors of his chosing. There are obviously high-end and low-end contractors out there, and the parties can use their estimates to their benefit in negotiating. I don’t mean to start a long thread on the contractor factor article because it has been discussed at length in the past when it first came out, but I did want to correct this point for those unfamiliar with the issue.
John

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by Eric Anderson

Posted by Eric Anderson on February 15, 2000 at 15:31:22:

Mary,

Go to www.nothingdown.com, that is Joe’s website. Very well-done, attractive site. On the left hand side about three quarters of the way down, click on “You, Me, and the BIZ”. Several pages there pertainng to the “BIZ” Looks good to me, I like the concept. but it sure is tough to get feedback from people IN the BIZ.

Eric

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Re: Good questions, Eric. - Posted by Chris

Posted by Chris on February 15, 2000 at 04:32:49:

Hi Ron-

I am planning on purchasing Joe’s Foreclosure course. What did you not like about it? I already heard about the white space that John T. Reed is obsessed with. If you could mention what you thought was lacking I would appreciate it.

-Thanks, Chris

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So what do you want to know? - Posted by Joe Kaiser

Posted by Joe Kaiser on February 14, 2000 at 22:44:04:

Ron,

I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have with regard to the Biz program. You can email directly or post here or on my site. As to your comments . . . no, there is nothing that prevents Associates from answering any questions or postings. I neither encourage or discourage it.

Again, our successes have been less than anticipated, and that’s why we continue to refine the system today (and are declining new sign-ups). It’s a tremendous undertaking (the software alone was a year in development). Additionally, some Associates have decided the program is not for them and have dropped out, while others, frankly, have as yet not made the effort required. At this time, we’ve limited the beta testing of our new business model to only a handful of Associates. We anticipate flipping the switch again once we’re convinced that we’re up to snuff . . . probably mid March.

We’ve come a long way, and I’m confident we’ll turn the corner here soon. We’ve got some great things going for us now. I only wish it hadn’t taken 20 months to get it to this point and wish those early Associates hadn’t had to endure that initial system. There were, in fact, several Associates who did make a tremendous effort early on and ended up with nothing to show for it. I suspect that’s the luck of the draw, but only wish it weren’t so. Whatever the case, I certainly appreciate the efforts that were made.

Joe

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Re: Very Skinny - Posted by Eric Anderson

Posted by Eric Anderson on February 15, 2000 at 12:10:46:

Joe, thanks for responding. I had planned on getting in touch with you later on, after I had gathered a little more info. Since you’re here, maybe you would be willing to help us understand your program (or it’s replacement) a little better.

I have trouble making calls across the time zones too. However, 12 of your 36 counties are in the same Pacific Time Zone as you and I. Your response wouldn’t seem to apply to those counties. It might have appeared to enlighten, but it really didn’t.

I have purchased two of your courses already, and I’m seriously looking for reasons to buy more. But the “time-zone and hoops” response doesn’t really balance the $4,995 cost of your BIZ program. You are a respected provider of course materials, and I like your energy, your enthusiam and your approach. I would like to find a reason to buy into your program. But I have to notice that someone, somewhere, has already spent $179,820 just for starters (36 counties x $4,995) And I can’t find anybody to say “boo” (NEWS FLASH Just this morning got a greatly appreciated posting from FrankPghPA, Thanks, Frank.)

I live in Multnomah county. About ten day ago I posted a question on creoline asking for foreclosure info in Multnomah, Clackamas, and Washington counties. All three of these are “sold to the BIZ” counties side-by-side in the Portland metropolitan area, about two hours directly south of your stomping grounds in Tacoma. No response.

The names Multnomah and Clackamas are quite distinctive. I had expected to catch somebodies attenion. No luck. I went to the Portland REI club. I asked the entire group, about 60-65 people, for feedback. No feedback. I asked the livewire Culb President. No knowledge. I sent a private email to a well regarded Portland investor that posts occasionally. No help. I’m not trying to be mysterious about the name. When I asked this investor if he had any info about the BIZ, it just didn’t occur to me to ask for permission to publish names.

It just seems to get curiouser and curiouser. You don’t owe me an education, I wasn’t really ready anyhow; I don’t yet have all my ducks in a row. If you do post, I’m sure it will be a good one. But please fatten it up a little, that previous response wasn’t just skinny, it was emaciated.

Regards, and hang in there. I’m interested. Eric

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Re: Thanks Ted . . . - Posted by Ted

Posted by Ted on February 17, 2000 at 24:11:54:

Thanks for replying Joe,

McCorkle/Cook a low blow? These two guys are (marketing) geniuses. As are you. That is the comparison I was trying to make. Though I can see, given the nature of the rest of my post that it could be taken that way. I listen to everything Cook sends out.

Maybe I?ll be able to convince you that using the CONTRACTOR FACTOR is wrong when I get better at marketing.

I can speak my mind. If you post the results and do ?deliver the dream? then I will be more than happy to acknowledge the same. Fair enough?

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by Ted

Posted by Ted on February 16, 2000 at 23:51:06:

Hi John,
Thanks for replying. I think the tone of the article (Contractor factor) speaks for itself. The subtitle is GET THE HOUSE FOR LESS. Nothing wrong with that. But Joe and his contractor/handyman are not providing the parties with the FMV of repairs. They are setting up a scenario where the Seller believes that the cost of repairs to Joe is more than twice what it will actually be. Remember, the ?contractor? taps Joe on the shoulder and delivers the ?bad news? to Joe.

It boils down to this, is it OK to present something as a fact if you know it is not.

Joe is under no obligation to tell the seller what the repairs will cost. On the other hand I think it is just plain wrong to tell the seller that repairs will cost more than he knows they will cost.

Sure the Seller doesn?t have to sell and sure he could go out and get his own bids. What I don?t understand why it is moral to provide the Seller with inaccurate information just because the seller doesn?t have to sell. I even had one email that said the Seller deserves to be taken because he is too lazy to get his own bids. I don?t agree with that type of thinking.

And you?re right that the parties can use their own estimates to their benefit when negotiating. Joe doesn?t use his estimate. He uses a phony estimate. He presents it to the Seller as something true, factual, and accurate. It is not.

I would have trouble sleeping at night if I acted this way.

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Re: Need info on Joe Kaiser’s BIZ program - Posted by Joe Kaiser

Posted by Joe Kaiser on February 16, 2000 at 22:38:06:

I’ve found it interesting to see the opinions posted here about that article (actually, it’s a chapter from my Abandoned Properties course). Frankly, I’m amazed that some folks find it “unethical.”

My contractor provides the seller with a complete list of the required repairs and gives him the retail price for completing the repair work. The price is not in any way out of line and is likely to be “middle of the road” had the seller taken the time to get his own bids. I don’t find that to be an ethical issue.

I have a handful of contractors that work for us with regularity. As a result, we don’t pay “retail” and can often get the same quality work using them at a price of about one third to one half of the going rate. I don’t find that unethical either. What possible reason would I have to pass along my hard earned and well deserved discount to the seller and in effect, let him use the relationship I’ve developed with my crews as a free bonus? None whatsoever, and to suggest otherwise is just plain silly.

If there’s a problem there, you’re just gonna have to explain it to me because I don’t see it at all.

For instance, last week I had a roof pressure washed (lots of moss from a loooong gray winter). We got six bids that ranged from $750 to $220. Not being a real techinical or exacting chore, I choose the $220 and the guy did every bit as good a job, I suspect, as the $750 guy would have done. Obviously, that’s just good business.

Now, had this been a house I was trying to buy, and knowing what I know, how much credit for the work should I have asked for when discussing the roof with the seller? What if I’d already gotten the bids? Which bid should I show him to substantiate the anticipated costs? If you said anything less than $750, then we just have a different way of looking at things.

Joe

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Re: Good questions, Eric. - Posted by ScottE

Posted by ScottE on February 16, 2000 at 01:15:15:

Chris,
I have Joe’s foreclosure course and it is excellent. The techniques are solid and have a “geez, why didn’t I think of that” effect. Frankly, I like that he has provided some white spaces so that I can make notes applicable to those sections.

Besides, for about $150 (with software) how can you lose? If Joe only wrote down a ONE line technique followed by 200 blank pages and you used that for just ONE deal, wouldn’t you expect to cover the investment in Joe’s course?

Good luck

Scott