No amount of money - Posted by Outta here

Posted by Ben (NJ) on September 13, 2003 at 14:16:56:

maybe in older homes but not in a place less than ten years old.


No amount of money - Posted by Outta here

Posted by Outta here on September 12, 2003 at 08:35:42:

is worth the headache of tenants. They are truly, as Lou Brown says “Alien Beings From Another World”. Dealing with tenants this past year has totally changed my perspective of people. I despise them all. In one year they have driven me from a Church goer to a drinker. Pick an amount of money you want in life and when you get there STOP. I would gladly give back every cent I may have made in exchange for the priviledge of never having encountered such a pack of liars.

So what’s wrong with drinking? :wink: - Posted by DaveD(WI)

Posted by DaveD(WI) on September 13, 2003 at 10:15:18:

Some of the truely worst of the worst tenant situations we’ve been involved in regard “church-going” types. Never has the knife been stuck farther in our backs. Don’t get me wrong. . . we practice Christian principles. Maybe the change of scenery to drinking will do you some good. Just kidding!

We’ve all had those days (and months). We keep coming back because it is just simply far too renumerative to quit. It comes down to your systems for managing aliens. Sounds like your’s need some work. Hope things get better for you.

Landlording is not for Everyone - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on September 13, 2003 at 09:40:48:

Outta Here:

I bought property from an exasperated landlord like yourself, and it was one of the best deals I ever made.

The guy owned a three family, but lived in all three apartments. Said he had it with tenants. I didn’t know it at the time, he had a nasty personality, and the tenants retaliated by calling the authorities on the smallest things.

When I bought the place, he had violations like:

  • Front door knob loose.

  • Kitchen (his own) painted too dark. Apparently there’s some arcane regulation in NYC on paint colors in multi-families that you can’t paint dark colors even if you live there.

  • Toilet flushometer leaky.

The big laugh was the bank giving me the mortgage called and asked about violations. I told the guy to read it, and see if it was a big problem. They called back, had a big laugh, and said go ahead with the closing.

The banker said he never saw anything like it, and I told him that this guy was one of a kind.

He sued me in small claims over a small $100.00 descrepancy on the closing statement, when his own attorney missed something, and got laughed out of court by the judge and the audience. Judge asked him how much he bought the building for originally, and was told its 50K. The noticed it was sold for 150K, with him making 100K.

Judge said to him, you made 100K on it, and you’re wasting our time over $100.00, and all because you and your attorney didn’t bother to read the contract??

On the other hand, I had nothing but good things to say about tenants I rented to in that building since taking over. Even though I sold it not too long ago, I still exchange Xmas cards with some of them.

Landlording is a people business, and if you don’t choose wisely, and keep folks happy, you’ll be in a world of pain.

Frank Chin

So this means you’re a motivated seller? - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on September 13, 2003 at 07:39:27:

I love buying from tired and exasperated landlords. Some get so fed up with landlording and bad tenants that they will sell for cheap cheap.

Seriously though, if you realize that so many prospective tenants are scumbag liars you can do your best to screen them out. I’ve had some wonderful tenants who almost always paid on time, were responsible, were courteous, etc. And I’ve also had the kind you are talking about. It’s a matter of screening. If you’re not up for that, then hire a proeprty manager.

What’s your screening SOP ? - Posted by Hank FL

Posted by Hank FL on September 12, 2003 at 18:52:01:

Do you communicate early and often the policies of the landlord in extreme detail, like when the lease – I mean, rental agreement, is signed ?

Do they know you are the landlord ?

Do you do what you say you are going to do in a timely manner ?

Are your houses 3 bedroom, 2 bath with an attatched garage where people want to live ?

You seem really, really down on the whole RE thing. Could you give us more details as to what you think went wrong and how a Monday morning QB would have done things different ?

Re: No amount of money - Posted by RichV(FL)

Posted by RichV(FL) on September 12, 2003 at 14:14:03:

Outta here,

I know tenants can be a real pain in the behind and property managment is not for everyone.

If I were you I would sit down calmly and rethink your situation.

Keep in mind, only those investors who buy and hold real estate will ever accumulate any significant net worth in the future.

Dont misunderstand me…I love making money buying and selling properties. But big money can be made by buying right and holding for appreciation in value over time.

Best wishes,


Re: No amount of money - Posted by jorge

Posted by jorge on September 12, 2003 at 13:50:03:

I just had my new tenants paint the inside of one of my rentals and is putting new carpet where there was vinyl. ALL at their expense. They are using their own Fridge and stove so now I can use those two on another unit I am remodeling that does not have one.
So my experience has been nothing but wonderful. Knock on some wood for me everybody!!

ONe question though… How many tenants do you or have you had? I mean I have been dealing with hundreds of customers at my day job that almost had me thinking like you about people… but if anything that is the reason why I want MORE tenants or more REal estate… so that I don’t have to deal with that many people… period…

Good luck!!


how much did u make? - Posted by ken in sc

Posted by ken in sc on September 12, 2003 at 12:29:07:

Must not be much if you are willing to give it up so easily. I have one tenant who has stayed for the first 5 years of a 15 year note. The house has appreciated around $30K and the note has paid off $40K. This tenant has averaged calling me less than 5 times per year. Only once have we had an “issue” which was in regards to a dog and we resolved it without it becoming harsh between us. So, the tenant has made me how much money? How much per call? Two more tenants like that and the house will be paid off.

Yes, property management is not for everyone. Frankly, I dont really LIKE it myself. Thats why my secretary handles most things except the large decisions. But correctly purchased and leveraged RE is the highest return investment I have been able to find. If you find something better, let me know.


Either you are wired for this… - Posted by JT-IN

Posted by JT-IN on September 12, 2003 at 12:13:38:

Or you aren’t… and you are NOT.

Frankly I disagree - Posted by Earl

Posted by Earl on September 12, 2003 at 11:54:18:

Tenants are a hassle, no argument there. But for the gains that I’m getting in REI and exect to continue to get in the future I’ll live with those hassles.

Some of the books on REI that make me more patient with tenants are the books that discuss the WHY of REI, rather than just the how. An excellent book, old but still good, is Mark Haroldson’s “How to Wake up the Financial Genius Inside You.” I don’t think I’ve ever seen a better book since, that simply lays out the simple math of how figuring out how to handle tenants can make you far happier in life than the stock market, bond market, or any other financial investment.

Also there are techniques in REI where you can build wealth and don’t have to deal with tenants - or maybe just one at a time. Read on this website about wholesaling, flipping, rehabbing, and other ideas.

Also, I know my personality is not one to deal well with tenants. I’m too easygoing, laid back, etc. When I first started out with rentals I managed them myself for a while to see first hand the hassles with tenants, then I VERY CAREFULLY hired on property management. A GOOD property manager can help to insulate you from some of the emotions you’re going through (obviously) while not denying you the chance to build more wealth than you will any other way.

Just some food for thought.

No really, how do you feel about it? - Posted by Good bye

Posted by Good bye on September 12, 2003 at 11:13:27:


I tend to agree… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on September 12, 2003 at 09:46:09:

I’ve had some doozies. Right now I have a tenant in a townhouse of mine telling me that the place is environmentally contaminated. This despite the fact that the prior tenant was there for a year and never had a problem. Also despite the fact that my unit shares a common wall with two adjacent units and neither of these people has problems. (The whole complex is less than ten years old.) Just to humor them I had tests done for 320 volatile compounds all of which came out negative. They now want to test for formaldehyde. They can test for goddam radioactive isotopes if they want but I’m not paying for it!

Re: So what’s wrong with drinking? :wink: - Posted by Hank FL

Posted by Hank FL on September 13, 2003 at 18:29:52:

Nothing wrong with drinking provided you remember at what bar you parked your car at the night before.

I agree with you on those that wear their religion on their sleeze – I mean sleeves.

Amen! - Posted by Eric C

Posted by Eric C on September 13, 2003 at 16:14:18:

Hi Frank -

Nice post.

Like you, I’ve made a good deal of money (and some of the best deals) from burnt out (or amateur)landlords – this includes commercial properties too.

Next to banks (and other corps), this is my favorite category.

And your last line is a classic and should be carried in every wannabe landlord’s wallet at all times.

Thanks again for the great posts.

Take care,

Eric C

Re: I tend to agree… - Posted by Shawn J. Dostie

Posted by Shawn J. Dostie on September 13, 2003 at 11:47:23:

There probably is formaldehyde. Any type of pressed wood (Cupboards) contains formaldehyde.

Just some useless info I picked up somewhere.

Good Luck,