No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by Carmen_FL

Posted by chris on October 28, 2000 at 16:18:23:


That’s the thing-there are charities to help these people out so you don’t have to. One place that would have this info in your area is the unemployment office. Just walk in and there should be pamphlets at the info desk detailing the assistance programs in your town or county. There are programs to provide folks down on their luck free groceries(not talking about food stamps or the rescue mission), help with paying the utilities, and help with paying the rent/mortgage-and I’m not talking about Section 8. Grab a bunch of these suckers(pamphlets, not people needing help) to have in your arsenal. Next time you get excuses, give 'em pamphlets. Also check around to see if there are any other programs. Catholic charities, etc. should have something set up and you could always check with a church in the neighborhood to see what they have set up. If they don’t have anything themselves, I’m sure they know who has a program.

I guess after that you can always get creative and pass along the ideas we see on this board on how to get money to do a deal, except in this case the funds are for them to not be evicted. Cash advance on the credit cards, borrow from relatives, sell something they don’t need, go to one of those payroll advance lenders, and so on and so forth.

-Good Luck,Chris

No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by Carmen_FL

Posted by Carmen_FL on October 26, 2000 at 10:03:06:

Ouch! Does anyone remember the “nice people” I gushed about last year, when I put them in my L/O house and they held a prayer circle in the yard, and they were so grateful and said we were “angels from heaven” and I felt SO good about myself for letting them move in? Well, I’m paying for being nice and letting them in with only $1,000 down (into my $80K house).

Our “nice couple” and their 3 kids and a dog took us to court to stop their eviction! They didn’t pay September’s rent; the lease was up October 1; they’re still in my house!

LESSON # 1: NEVER DO YOUR FIRST EVICTION YOURSELF! Because of 3 words missing on the 3-day notice, they actually got a hearing - without putting money into the court! We had to settle with their ambulance-chasing lawyer (who was working on contingency, because they didn’t even have the $75 retainer to give him - this after they withheld almost $1600 of MY money!) in order to get them out (2 MORE weeks!) and pay his legal fees! Ouch, Ouch, double ouch!

LESSON # 2: ALWAYS GET MONEY UP FRONT! If we’d had a couple more thousand bucks in the bank from them to pay the mortgage, we wouldn’t feel so bad right now! We’re eating the third month now, and it REALLY hurts!

LESSON # 3: SEPARATE BUSINESS FROM PERSONAL! I was SO angry at the law the day of the hearing, I couldn’t even see straight! My immediate response was to nail these people to the wall and fight it no matter how long it took (not just because they couldn’t pay, but because they lied to us several times, bounced checks, and had to gall to contest when they were totally, 100% in the wrong!) But, my husband’s cooler head prevailed and we ended up settling just to get them the heck out (we get a default judgment and writ of posession if they’re not out by Nov. 6)

LESSON # 4: TRUST NO ONE! I now know where the little signs saying “In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash” came from. I have stopped making decisions with my heart - I am now making them with my wallet. We are advertising the house again, and let me tell you, no sob story is going to turn me like they did a year ago.

LESSON # 5: KEEP ON TRUCKIN’! Although this has left a bitter taste in my mouth, we learned some valuable “life lessons” - or as LeGrand says, we have paid for an expensive “seminar”. But we have a couple of other deals closing shortly, and they should help alleviate some of this stress!

Don’t we LOVE Real Estate Investing???

Re: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by Rajen (ga)

Posted by Rajen (ga) on October 28, 2000 at 02:39:58:

May I suggest a good reading ? It is ‘Winning Through Intimidation’ (or similar title) by Robert Ringer. It shows how to spot these characters.
Hope that will help.

a little off topic, but . . . - Posted by JoeKaiser

Posted by JoeKaiser on October 27, 2000 at 22:35:06:

I am tired of people who do this sort of thing for a living.

Today a lady called on a propery we put on the market this week. She’s looking for someone to “work with her.” Ugh.

I asked about income, and she was happy to report that she collects both SSI and DSHS (Dept of Social & Health Services).

“How 'bout the down payment?” I ask.

The state has a new program for down payment assistance, she tell me. Ugh.

Reminds me of a Section 8 tenant awhile back who was upset that I wasn’t about to return her deposit. When I pointed out the mess left behind, she assured me that there had to be some sort of government program that would get the place cleaned up for me. Ugh.


Remember the resounding ‘jubilation’ … - Posted by SusanL.–FL

Posted by SusanL.–FL on October 27, 2000 at 15:24:05:

…from the board last year, Carmen, when you told us about the prayer circle in the back yard? It was like, ‘FAITH in humanity had been restored’!

What a bummer…Sorry to hear the outcome.

But what goes around, comes around. They’ll get their’s.

Thanks, Y’all! - Posted by Carmen_FL

Posted by Carmen_FL on October 27, 2000 at 08:10:41:

It’s good to know I’m in such exalted company. Guess I should have read a few more posts last year before moving ahead … and a few more last month before posting that danged notice!

Re: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by Joe Kaiser

Posted by Joe Kaiser on October 27, 2000 at 04:47:02:

Sadly, “christian” is very much a “red flag” in my book. It’s one thing to be a christian, it’s another thing altogether to use it as a negotiation tactic.

When prospects gush about their honesty, their integrity, or their religious affiliations, I tend to hold on to my wallet tightly.


Re: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by Matt B

Posted by Matt B on October 26, 2000 at 14:11:23:

I think all of us who have even a little experience will probably have similar stories. I used to bend over backwards to “help” some of these people, and learned the hard way to run my business AS A BUSINESS. What would a bank do if these people stopped paying?

I had a guy who looked at a house that I was offering with owner financing. I was asking the fair market value for it, and intended to sell the note at close. This guy told me about his past credit problems, how he was working on cleaning them up, and even showed me a copy of his credit report that he recently pulled to see what he needed to work on. I ran his credit by a note buyer, who agreed to buy the note when it was created.

Once I was sure that I could sell the note, I wrote up the contract and told him that I would need a $500 earnest money deposit. I also worked a great deal for him, structuring the deal so that he would only have a $2,000 down payment, with me paying his closing costs. I did all I could to help this guy and his nice wife and 2 kids. When I went to his apartment to get the contract signed, I sat down with him and his wife and read and explained every last word on the purchase contract. I asked them if they had any questions. I asked them if they were sure that they would be able to come up with the $2,000 down payment, because, I told them, if they couldn’t, and had already signed the contract, they would be in default and I could keep their earnest money. They said that they understood.

The guy then went to get the cashier’s check that I told him to have made up for the earnest money deposit. He handed me the check, but it was only for $220. He explained that he had to wait until the next week when he was paid to give me the rest of the $500. This was a huge warning sign that I sort of ignored. I asked him if he was sure that he would have the rest in a week. I asked him if he were sure that he would be able to come up with the remaining $1,500 for the down payment. I told him that if he wasn’t able to come up with either of these, he would be in default and forfeit his deposit. He said that he understood.

To shorten a VERY long story, he wasn’t home when I went over the next week to pick up the remainder. He called me a few times, telling me to come over and get the money. EVERY time I went over, nobody was home. I wrote him a letter warning him that he was in default, and if he wanted the house, he had better come up with the rest of the money. He called me a few days later and said that he just wanted his money back because his mom told him that the house wasn’t a good deal!

I bent all my rules for this guy and now he wanted his money back. I told him that since he was in default and kept telling me to come to his house to get the money when he wasn’t home, I would be keeping his deposit. He took me to court about it. I figured that this would be the quickest hearing that I had ever been to. After he fumbled around and stuttered to the judge that he wanted his deposit back, I told the judge what I had told him. The judge asked if I had warned him that he could lose his deposit if he didn’t come up with the rest. He said yes, plus it was right on the contract in front of the judge. The judge then asked me what I “gave” this guy for his $220!!! I told the judge that I had “given” this guy the right to buy the house, and took it off the market to hold it for him. I have no clue how, but I lost! I now use an attorney for ANY legal matter!

I also have a tenant/buyer that I thought would be a problem. She was going through a divorce when she first checked out one of my properties. She had to borrow $2,000 from her mom in order to get enough for the option deposit, which was $3,000, but she did it. Well, last Christmas, she didn’t pay her rent. I called and left several messages, which were never returned. I then went out to the property. She was home and I asked what was going on. She told me that (here comes a good one) she had forgotten to put a return address on the envelope so the post office sent it back to her. She told me they were really starting to crack down on that. It actually took a second to hit me that she was telling me that some psychic at the post office saw her no return address envelope, used their psychic power to determine who had sent it, and sent it back to her! I went to the post office and sent her eviction notice certified. In 2 days, the payment was in my hand.

I won’t even bother with late notices or phone calls any more. I’m tired of sob stories too. My tenant/buyers know my policies. I make sure that I carefully explian and put in writing what they are. If they are late, they get a notice sent to them and they don’t get that month’s rent credit. Seems to be working just fine now that I am the mean old wicked landlord now.

TOTALLY Agree… - Posted by JHyre in Ohio

Posted by JHyre in Ohio on October 26, 2000 at 12:11:06:

I’m in the process of getting rid of a woman whom I gave a little help when her 8-year old son was seriously injured. I thought that the park manager was being cynical when he said “the ones you help most will be the first to stab you in the back”. Ever since then, she has bombarded me with “reasons” for late payments. This month she pushed harder and rendered no payment…out she goes. I found it offensive to discover that her rent-to-own payments for equipment much nicer than mine (big screen TV, etc) exceed the mobile home payment that she decided was optional. She’ll have to find somewhere else to put all of that nice equipment. Lesson learned: No favors for anyone regardless how bad fate (or more likely, their own actions) treats them. Charity is fine, but should NEVER be mixed with business.

One of many lessons learned.

John Hyre

Amendment to Lesson #1 - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on October 26, 2000 at 11:33:20:

Never do ANY eviction yourself. I have a lawyer who does essentially nothing BUT evictions. He charges me $107 per eviction. That is a bargain. It isn’t even worth my time to drive down to the courthouse for that! (He is there every day anyway so what does he care.)
I had a tenant about 2 months ago who contested it all the way. (“I mailed him the rent priority mail. He is stealing my electricity. He is giving us this notice of unauthorized tenant eventhough he told me my girlfriend could move in. Blah, blah”) It went to court two times and the tenant showed up both times, talked a lot, and proved nothing. So he lost. All for $107 out of my pocket.



Re: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by Hope(Fl)

Posted by Hope(Fl) on October 26, 2000 at 11:05:47:

Sorry to hear what happened,but it really doesnt surprise me. I have been in this business too long and was VERY soft hearted and naive when I first began. I really believed peoples stories and in their innate goodness. After getting screwed so many times, I finally learned that 1) Make sure you get the money up front(if they say they dont have all of it, let them borrow it from a bank, c.c. or relative) If they cant do that, then they have probably already screwed all these sources and you are just next in line) 2) If they dont pay their rent by the 3rd day and dont call us, I dont go calling or chasing them down, we promptly put up a 3 Day Notice(real attention getter), and I really dont want to hear all their sob stories; I have quite a few myself and dont vent it on them. Bottom line, I want the money in our pockets, I dont want promises that they will pay us in the future. This is a lesson we all learn, and dont feel bad, it took me a long time!!! I went through this so many times until I really said no more!! Now, if a tenant has been with us for a long time, and has always paid us rent on time and keeps the place up and then something happens and THEY CALL to tell us they are having problems, of course, I will work with them, as they have already proven themselves. But be real tough the first 6 monthes or so, as people learn real fast which bills they need to pay and which ones they can put on hold. Make sure your rent is the FIRST bill to be paid, make sure you explain this to them a million times when they are signing the contract, and make sure you follow up immediately with a 3day notice if they dont abide by this.

Re: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by ChrisG(OH)

Posted by ChrisG(OH) on October 26, 2000 at 10:17:44:


I’m sorry that this happened to you but I thank you for posting your experience so we newbies can learn from it.

BTW what 3 words were missing from your 3-Day Notice?



Yes. Before RDPDad there was Robert Ringer… - Posted by Stew (Nebraska)

Posted by Stew (Nebraska) on October 28, 2000 at 23:31:13:

Finally, someone else remembers him too. I got those books in the Eighties and wore them out (Looking out for number 1 and Winning through Intimidation) My wife hated the title. Now that I have property, I reread his books to help me spot all the players. I also know the different between scoring a touchdown and getting paid. It’s great reading. I heard he has a new book out now that he is older in life. I think him and his wife got divorced(Sad). I love the part where he talks about graduating from Screw U. Tonight I talked to a guy that wants to partner with me on a deal and he started talking about a “gentlemens agreement” and his honesty instead of signing a purchase agreement. I immediately thought of Ringer and sirens went off in my head. Not that I won’t do the deal but I will be on my guard and try to protect myself when I can.

Gotta keep reminding myself… - Posted by Carmen_FL

Posted by Carmen_FL on October 28, 2000 at 15:05:07:

Despite my angry post of just a few days ago, I keep having to remind myself that I am not running a charity, I am running a business. My husband, thankfully, has taken this and other lessons to heart much more so than I, and is being the harda$$ for both of us. In my mind, I keep trying to “find” a way to help people who are clearly beyond help - as if that would be proof of what a good “investor” I am! “Bring me the masses, the unwashed, the crippled …” - however that quote goes - takes some beating up to get the “humanity” out of you, doesn’t it? I hope I don’t have to lose it ALL to remain an investor!

We had another couple who we assigned (thank goodness) a lease option to. They called us, upset that the landlord kept calling them - they didn’t know why he kept “pestering” them. I know why - the landlord called us, too (and we politely reminded him that we had assigned the contract with no recourse) - the tenants had bounced the first month’s rent check (“But we gave him the check! It wasn’t even late!”). The second month’s rent was 2 weeks late. I still haven’t received my real estate commission from the seller, because he’s p-o’d.

I wish I were a better mind reader or someone would create an “honesty detector” - sure would save time and $$!

As an aside, I’ve decided maybe it’s best to start a non-profit to help the “deserving” masses with home ownership information - with other people’s money! Then I won’t feel so bad, and I can keep that “charity” part separate from the Food-On-My-Own-Table money!

Onward Christian soldiers… ha! - Posted by SusanL.–FL

Posted by SusanL.–FL on October 27, 2000 at 15:17:33:

We had a one beaut for a renter. The husband showed up with a GIANT cross emblazoned across his t-shirt! I said, ‘awwww Kenny, a Christian’…(naive little Susie)…

Fact 'o the matter was, he had a pair 'o horns under his baseball cap! Boy, did THEY take US for a ride.

:frowning: Live and learn…

Re: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by Matt B

Posted by Matt B on October 27, 2000 at 08:11:44:

It’s funny, Joe, I’ve learned the same thing. My most interesting one was when I was doing a lease option on a house where the couple kept telling me what “honorable” people they were. The husband shook my hand a couple of times and said that “his word was his bond”. They made such a big deal about this, that I felt nervous from the start. I then remembered the scene from Jerry Maguire where the college football player’s dad shakes Jerry’s hand and tells him that his handshake is his bond and is as strong as oak, or something like that. He then turns around and signs with someone else behind Jerry’s back. Guess what happened to my deal with that couple?

That is too funny>>> - Posted by chris

Posted by chris on October 26, 2000 at 16:43:37:

She told me that (here comes a good one) she had forgotten to put a return address on the envelope so the post office sent it back to her. She told me they were really starting to crack down on that. It actually took a second to hit me that she was telling me that some psychic at the post office saw her no return address envelope, used their psychic power to determine who had sent it, and sent it back to her! I went to the post office and sent her eviction notice certified. In 2 days, the payment was in my hand.

Not Including Weekends … - Posted by Carmen_FL

Posted by Carmen_FL on October 26, 2000 at 11:26:24:

And Holidays… OK, so it was 5 words!!!


Re: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! - Long - Posted by Terry (Houston)

Posted by Terry (Houston) on October 26, 2000 at 10:28:24:


No that’s not them but it should be that easy. Oh Well I also thank you Carmen because I am listing a handyman special and do not want to fall into that trap. You have reaffirmed my resolve.