Posted by Ben (NJ) on March 19, 2002 at 07:45:33:
David, I can understand the need for privacy in an ongoing dispute. One never knows who is lurking on these boards. A friend of mine is in a similar situation so if I am not prying which answer was yes, the mortgage part or the rental part?
NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by n00b (southern ca)
Posted by n00b (southern ca) on March 13, 2002 at 20:58:53:
in southern california, some, if not all, title insurance companies will not issue a policy for a period of one year on properties purchased at tax deed sales. would any of you, by chance, happen to know why this is? furthermore, i would think that it would be next to impossible to sell that property once prospective homebuyers find out that there is no current title policy on it. what are your thoughts on this? thank you, in advance, for your input.
Title Ins. on Tax Forfeited Properties . . . - Posted by TxRae
Posted by TxRae on March 15, 2002 at 23:46:08:
Got the following from a web site that deals quite a bit with tax delinquent property, from their links section.
I must say, however, that I have no knowledge of or dealings with these people/company. But the creator of the site has bought tax delinquent properties in many different locales over the last 27-28 years and has probably faced a lot of issues in various locales.
(Direct paste from the contact/link section follows)
WANT TITLE INSURANCE ON TAX FORFEITED PROPERTIES
Dave Schumacher, President
Tax Title Services
(714) 848-4750; Fax (714) 848-8170
Email: taxtitleservices@aol.com
Yes, that’s 714 (Orange County, CA).
Please keep us posted whether they can or cannot help you, and any other issues that may come up with this company.
This is not intended as an ad or recommendation, just info I spotted someplace else that may or may not help.
raelynn mitchell
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by Crickett (Seattle)
Posted by Crickett (Seattle) on March 14, 2002 at 13:22:23:
I saw a title company advertising on Roy Stubblefield’s site: www.taxsale.com. They claimed to offer title insurance for tax deed properties. I haven’t checked them out any further than that, but you might want to. Not affiliated, yada yada yada, YMMV.
Crickett (Seattle)
Dirty little secret . . . - Posted by JoeKaiser
Posted by JoeKaiser on March 13, 2002 at 21:48:33:
The county likely has a contract with one particular title company for their title work. That’s who you contact. They have much less exposure since they’re already on the hook for any title problems and may “look the other way” when it comes to issuing you clear title. We do it all the time, paying a $1k premium for the privilege.
JoeK
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on March 13, 2002 at 21:40:31:
n00b–(CA)---------------
Right. Here are some possible solutions.
Sell on slow-close contract. People put up money, move in, close after a year. In other states it would be a contract for deed.
Sell for all cash to an investor. Probably at a discount.
Borrow money using the property as security. Lender has to be very sophisticated or trust you or both. Then sell later, after the year is up. Meantime, you have some cash to buy more properties.
Hold the property for a year and sell it then.
Get other investors to buy a partial interest in the deal, gives you money to invest.
If you can do a quiet title in less than a year in your county, you can do that.
Good InvestingRon Starr*********
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on March 13, 2002 at 21:13:20:
Dear n00b: It’s true that title insurance is next to impossible to get on property that you receive via tax deeds (tax sales) until a one-year waiting period expires. This is because the tax-defaulted owners have one year to make a claim with the county that their property was improperly sold at tax auction. There are mistakes that counties make and this is a state law that ensures that owners have rights. Consequently, title companies really have no business issuing title insurance on something that is really not free and clear.
It is only difficult to sell within this year if your buyer needs a conventional loan. You can carry paper. You can also guarantee the title yourself and leave some money in escrow so that your buyers feel that you are good for your word (that you would refund their money if the tax sale is rescinded). I did that with a property I sold a few months after I bought it at tax sale. I got the bulk of the money as a deposit up front and the rest at the end of the year waiting period.
It’s one of the things about tax sales that keeps just any old investor away.
Hope this helps. Sincerely, Kristine
Exceptions… - Posted by David Krulac
Posted by David Krulac on March 14, 2002 at 14:40:33:
Joe,
In some states the properties are sold with the leins intact and the county doesnot do any title search. It is the responsibility of the purchaser to do a title search on their own.
Many title companies will not insure tax sale properties without a Quiet Title Action being completed. The title companies hate thrid party deeds where there is any possibility of somebody challenging the sale later.
The process for some counties, where they do title searches is to advertise for those services and they pick the LOWEST bidder. In one such case two law students were the low bidder. They were not even a title search company and did not even work for a title search company. Their searches were careless, sloppy, and in exact. When they were question as to the accuracy of their work, (they were searching the same title as I was at the same time!). They replied that “It doesn’t matter, these degenerates are going to lose their property anyway.”
Been doing this for 3 decades and have seen the dirty little secret of the dirty little secret.
David Krulac
Re: Dirty little secret . . . - Posted by Stacy (AZ)
Posted by Stacy (AZ) on March 14, 2002 at 11:31:47:
Dam. I like it when you post this stuff. You have a way of looking beyond the boundaries to just GET IT DONE. This is what every serious RE investor must have; the ability to look at a roadblock and challenge himself to find a way to get around it.
Welcome back.
Re: Dirty little secret . . . - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on March 13, 2002 at 23:54:59:
Joe Kaiser: Has this been your experience in CA? I haven’t found a title company that would go for this yet…and believe me, I looked.
Sincerely, Kristine
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by JD
Posted by JD on March 13, 2002 at 22:06:17:
Does it really take a year to do a quiet title action in CA? In Colorado I can do tax sale realted quite title in 3 months and about $300.
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by n00b (southern ca)
Posted by n00b (southern ca) on March 13, 2002 at 21:49:36:
wow. lots of great ideas. another question, though… what’s a “quiet title”?
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by n00b (souther ca)
Posted by n00b (souther ca) on March 13, 2002 at 21:44:33:
so, i suppose that would be the homeowner’s “right of redemption” period. that would make sense. thank you again, kristine. that was great information. and, useful.
Who’s doing their title work? - Posted by JoeKaiser
Posted by JoeKaiser on March 14, 2002 at 24:13:12:
Find out who does their title work and go talk to them. It’s not something you call up on the phone and inquire about. With any luck, you’ve got a history with that company and can talk with a familiar title officer and see if he/she can pull a few strings to make your life easier.
No, haven’t asked in CA.
Joe
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on March 14, 2002 at 09:35:46:
JD–(CO)---------
Depends upon the jurisdiction–the county. I think in some counties it can take more than a year. I know one fellow who did it in Solano County a few years ago. It took about a year. He said that he wished he had simply waited out the year. The attorney’s fee then could have been avoided.
I’ve been told by attorneys in OK that a tax resale quiet title lawsuit there will take about 6-8 weeks. The cost? Depends on the attorney. I was quoted prices of about $750 to $1500. I haven’t bothered with one yet. Not planning on reselling the properties. I am a long-term holder.
Good Investing**********Ron Starr**************
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by David Krulac
Posted by David Krulac on March 14, 2002 at 07:18:04:
we have one that is going on 3 years and $10,000 and another one that is 9 years and still unresolved for $20,000.
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on March 14, 2002 at 09:28:13:
n00b–(CA)-----------
“Quiet title lawsuit” judge determines who has what interests in a property–ownership, liens and other obligations. The rule of law. No disputing that. In tax sale cases, it cuts off the interests of the former owners–provided that the tax collector’s paperwork satisifies the judge.
Basic stuff. You probably better be reading up on CA real estate law if you plan to be a real real estate investor. I recommend Miller and Starr’s Current Real Estate Law of CA–good reading, very informative.
Good Investing**Ron Starr
Re: NO TITLE POLICY FOR TAX DEED SALE PROPERTIES? - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on March 13, 2002 at 23:47:02:
n00b: I don’t believe it is the “right of redemption” period, because we don’t have tax lien certificates in CA with such a redemption period. However, tax defaulted owners have a year to make a claim that their property was sold improperly, without just cause or improper notifications, or incorrectly recorded tax payments, etc. Tax defaulted owners have no rights of redemption that I know of other than “excess proceeds,” which means they can collect the difference between the taxes due plus the costs of the tax sale and the actual sale price at auction.
Hope this helps. Sincerely, Kristine
Carefull . . . - Posted by JoeKaiser
Posted by JoeKaiser on March 13, 2002 at 21:56:39:
“supposing” isn’t the best avenue to be travelling in this business. You need to approach it will a degee or two more certainty and attention to detail or you’ll get yourself hung out to dry.
Of course, there’s always bankruptcy court, I suppose.
Joe
Nine years…? - Posted by Ben (NJ)
Posted by Ben (NJ) on March 16, 2002 at 06:49:59:
Last summer I was whining about a title company that took two months to give me a binder. They put a microscope up my butt and examined every minute detail of my foreclosure. At one point they even found that the deed description didn’t match the deed description on a mortgage that had been discharged thirty years ago! They were worried that this guy might come back one day and say his mortgage was never really paid off. Give me a break! Rick Vesole (from this board) actually gave me a great tip which I used. He said to offer to indemnify the company from the guy making any claims. I did and they said to not even bother, they would insure over it. Nine years is a nightmare. Could you give us details as to what the problem is? Are you at least able to rent the property for income? Can you mortgage it or would the title problem prevent that too?