Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 16, 2006 at 01:15:20:

Killer Joe,

Pat’s coming to the forum for help getting started, focused on concerns about financing, as the potential barrier he sees for himself. I’m saying that’s not the barrier, though he’ll get helpful advice on it–I wouldn’t expect him to be advised to get coaching. And I’d been asking why, attempting to understand that.

No investor on any board is going to spend 45 days coaching him. That is not to say, from the great posts I’ve read, that many of them couldn’t–but they don’t.

I asked for opinions, which I appreciate. And I believe 45 days of coaching blows any other method away. The opinions I’ve gotten so far lean toward “Pass” and use other methods–which could make me feel like the Lone Ranger.

So if books tapes, clubs, etc are the alternative, and time marches on–it isn’t happening in 45 days. I think I actually said coaching WITHOUT books, courses, materials, etc still blows them away.

Getting in is not the easy part–why isn’t everybody getting into a property this week that wants to? Why hasn’t Pat gotten into one? Why is it likely he won’t be in one 45 days from now (a good deal, like I said)?

And I really gotta disagree when you say, “Nobody gets a paycheck for gettin in”. Whether flipping or holding, I do coach students to make their money going in, in price or terms, or not to do the deal.

ChrisX

Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 13, 2006 at 20:00:34:

Do you think personal coaching lives up to expectations when people pay for it? Does it make a big difference in how fast they make money or save beginners from making costly mistakes?

Thanks,

ChrisX

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by Natalie-VA

Posted by Natalie-VA on September 15, 2006 at 09:13:53:

Chris,

I think it really just depends on the student. IMO there’s a minority of people out there who really benefit from coaching. This is not because of the coach, but because of the student. I’m not even sure about this minority, because so many times I see someone come on this board for a few weeks and mention their mentor in every other post…I start to wonder if they’re really just advertising.

In order to be successful in this business, you have to be a manager and a leader. You need to be good with tasks and with people. You need to be able to look at the big picture and also scrutinize details.

I don’t think those are skills that a coach train you on…you either have what it takes to run your own business, or you don’t.

IMO, most people who think they need to pay for coaching really don’t have what it takes to begin with. Again, I’m saying most, not all.

–Natalie

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by WAREIA

Posted by WAREIA on September 13, 2006 at 22:20:09:

Save you money. The best “Coaching” I’ve seen is the free real life experiences you get by partnering, birddogging and just plain hangin’ around successful members of your own local Real Estate Investors Association or Club.

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 15, 2006 at 17:31:40:

Hi Natalie,

Thank you for your thoughts. You’re so right about it depending on the student. I don’t think only a minority can succeed with a coach–I’d say every student who wants to succeed with a coach can, except there are really ineffective coaches too.

I’m surprised by what you said about students coming on the forum saying they have a mentor or coach. If it’s working, why ask questions here? If it isn’t, why not get a refund? I agree that’s weird.

I don’t believe you have to know how to run a business or have managerial or leadership skills to get started making money in real estate. You only have to be able to learn the steps to take, take them and refine them as you go. There’s definitely an unknown with “timing” that affects how soon you connect with a deal you can make money on, but with immediate help you can go ahead and put it together the moment you find it.

Coaching does tell you exactly what to look for–the details (as you said, and as I mentioned in another post)like what to quit wasting time on, what would work, additional information to pursue, etc.

You said people who need to pay for coaching don’t have what it takes, and I hate the cliche, but Tiger Woods did have a coach and definitely has what it takes.

I would ask how you’ve come to the conclusions you’ve shared? And I ask because it seems the focus with many people is on things that aren’t required to actually start making money. I’m wondering if anyone can accept that it doesn’t take time or inherent business skills at all?

It’s like the common advice is to not do what works–that it’s better to get help in dribs and drabs, as long as it’s free or inexpensive, it’s okay for it to take an indeterminate amount of time and hopefully they won’t make an expensive boo-boo. Yet I see and hear people saying they’re anxious to get started, and they want to know what to do next, and next after that. I see knowledgeable people spotting boo-boo’s in the making here and advising against them. But so far, knowledgeable investors are generally recommending against coaching, and advising methods they feel are more sensible or valuable. Where do you think that’s coming from? Do you think it’s avoidance of coaching without understanding how it works or true preference for other methods?

Thanks,
ChrisX

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on September 15, 2006 at 10:19:22:

Natalie:

I find the hardest thing to teach is how to size people up, which is one of the critical elements in deal making.

As an example, I been trying to teach the wife on techniques in interviewing tenants, and getting our type, honest, down to earth, does what he’s asked, easy going etc. Despite my best efforts, she told me that I have a better knack for it, and I now do most if not all of the interviewing in person.

Once, when she did the interviewing, and selected what she thought was the perfect tenant, and asked me to go by wrap things up, size up the guy and pick up a deposit. My interviewing technique involves a casual chat, and I came back telling her that he is not the fellow she seems to think he is, and probably a psycho, and instead of picking up the deposit, I told him a story that my wife didn’t realize that I already took a deposit, and I rather not take two deposits, but he’s definitely the one as the other deal might fall thru.

I quickly left, and he called the wife back, calling her every name in the book, and initially said he already spoke to a lawyer about suing us, but thinking about it, he rather come by and kick the sh*t out of her. My wife hung up at that point and asked how I know he was a pyscho. She said when she interviewed him, he has amiable, pleasant, and very gentlemanly.

I told my wife that I was watching his body language when he spoke, and he assumed a personality that’s not his own. One trick a old boss told me was to say something provocative and see how the guy reacts. I said to him, “are you the type of guy that plans to hold wild parties here”??

Well, his pleasant demeanor dropped form his face for a few seconds, and he shouted “ridiculous, what do you mean”?? Then, he quickly reverted back to his false smile, after he realized what happened.

The wife said, that’s brilliant, so should I say that to the next tenant?? I said “no, it depends on the situation, the course of the converssation”. You don’t provoke a 60 something retiree saying he’ll be holding wild parties.

You see, I can’t even coach the wife on certain things since there’s “no script” to follow.

Frank Chin

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 15, 2006 at 01:52:22:

Thank you WAREIA,

I agree your suggestions are important things beginners (or advanced investors) can do, and I appreciate your opinion. That’s what I was asking for and didn’t mean to cause confusion with my question (I wasn’t actually asking if I should pay for coaching). I do real estate training, myself, and I’ve offered help on some questions here recently.

But a lot of the forums bash courses and coaching, and I WAS asking for opinions of it–which you did give me, tee hee. Your response got me thinking though.

I’m wondering why you gave good suggestions but suggested them instead of coaching? You’re saying partnering, birddogging and attending investment groups are what someone should do to get started making money, but I disagree because they aren’t enough. It isn’t possible for a beginner to find a partner to put up money, for example, if they don’t know how to find deals, analyze them, make offers that work, etc. There are a lot of questions on each step of the process, as we’re all sharing here, and it would take forever to get the process down. People can attend investment groups and still go home not knowing what to do next (after the help they got with questions they had that night).

I asked if anyone felt coaching was a way to speed it up or to keep from making mistakes–and I think, as I’ve suggested here, that books and basic courses give more of a quick start (plus what you’re suggesting). I believe coaching is the next step if someone wants to get to the money making part–beyond the studying part.

I could be seen as biased, but my experience is that beginners who have a good course and have a coach still have questions each step of the way. I didn’t have help when I started, and I felt like I was imposing when I had to ask someone (more than once) to explain each step. I didn’t know what to ask when I called on an ad or how to analyze a deal, let alone how to write offers. When I asked questions and did what someone told me, I had another question an hour later. Trial and error took me forever.

I sense “urgency” in beginning investors–they’re anxious to get going and to know what to do. I want everybody who wants to do real estate to make money as fast as they can (to reward them for the hard work it is). Wouldn’t you agree it costs them money to only “sort of” have help?

I expected people to say “NO coaching” or "YAY coaching. But you threw me off when you said the best coaching was something that isn’t coaching. I’d appreciate it if you’d tell me why you recommend against coaching?

Thanks, ChrisX

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by Natalie-VA

Posted by Natalie-VA on September 18, 2006 at 17:42:54:

Chris,

I agree with Killer Joe when he said, “All too often coaching is used as a substitute for either lack of talent, motivation or guts.”

I just think that REI is a business and you need to possess certain qualities to be successful in running a business. Tiger Woods may have what it takes to play golf, but probably doesn’t have the other talents you need to run a business…that’s why he has help.

Also, you said, “I’m wondering if anyone can accept that it doesn’t take time or inherent business skills at all?” No, I can’t accept that.

Good discussion you brought up. Thanks.

–Natalie

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on September 16, 2006 at 05:48:55:

Chris:

>>You said:

“I’d say every student who wants to succeed with a coach can, except there are really ineffective coaches too”.

I originally thought that you were a student asking about coaching and I pointed you to an archived thread that talked about the “problems of coaching”. You had no comments to it, and now I know why since you’re a coach yourself.

One of the problems with groups like Sheet’s marketing coaching and then do the coaching in volume is finding ENOUGH QUALIFIED coaches to coach, and where do you find an “oldie”, like yourself, made a fortune in RE, willing to spend time in a small cubicle in a noisy room coaching making a little more than minimum wage??

Or you’re a solitary coach, with all the right credentials, and how can a student find you (do you market yourself) and compared you to the Sheet’s coaches, most who are not qualified??

>> You said:

“I’m surprised by what you said about students coming on the forum saying they have a mentor or coach. If it’s working, why ask questions here? If it isn’t, why not get a refund? I agree that’s weird.”

If you read the post from Sheet’s coach, a ChrisK, is not weird at all. Funny so many coaches named Chris.

To quote coach ChrisK working for Sheets about an incident while working at Sheet’s office:

— "John Behle’s post brought to mind a copy of a newspaper article they sent around to all of us about McCorkle and his wife going to prison. It quoted a witness/coach who worked for them saying, “when I asked questions about how to help a student with a deal, I was told ““if you think your being here has anything to do with real estate, you’re wrong–it’s about the money, nothing else””.”

According to ChrisK, things aren’t that rosey at the Sheet’s organization either. He recounts an incident with the coach at the next cubicle:

----- “Example: a coach sitting next to me (I’ll call Chuck) talked to me sadly about a man he’d been assigned who was about 79 years old. Every week when Chuck called him for his session, the man didn’t know who he was. Chuck said he went to our boss to say the man didn’t know he had a coach, didn’t know he paid $2500 on his credit card for coaching, didn’t know who Chuck was and wasn’t doing any assignments (wouldn’t make any money) because he didn’t know he had assignments. Chuck said they needed to refund his money. Chuck was told to call the man every week and “push him on through”. We were both sick about it–we thought it could be his food money, his money for heat or medicine, etc.”

>> You said:

“I don’t believe you have to know how to run a business or have managerial or leadership skills to get started making money in real estate. You only have to be able to learn the steps to take, take them and refine them as you go”

Business and managerial experience gives you the “big picture”, and “people skills” that is needed. Putting it another way, there’s a certain amount of general knowledge needed, though a bright lad just coming off the boat, who’s been a “rice farmer”, could probably do it too, with proper coaching. This is assuming he’s got the right coach, not the one working for “McKorkle”. Even you would admit that’s it’s an exception.

But what are the chances that someone off the street, no business knowledge, want to do RE, HAPPENS to bump into a QUALIFIED coach, not the ones working for Sheet’s and others who markets extensively.

If I was a layman, see Sheets on TV all day, wouldn’t I go for a Sheet’s coach instead of plain ChrisX.

>>You said:

“You said people who need to pay for coaching don’t have what it takes, and I hate the cliche, but Tiger Woods did have a coach and definitely has what it takes”

There is a saying “you have to know what do don’t know”.

Tiger Woods, and those benefiting from coaching know what they don’t know.

Unfortunately, many people with little business knowledge thinks they already know everything.

>> You said:

“I would ask how you’ve come to the conclusions you’ve shared? And I ask because it seems the focus with many people is on things that aren’t required to actually start making money. I’m wondering if anyone can accept that it doesn’t take time or inherent business skills at all?”

I hired a guy who is below normal in skills, and I’ve been trying to determine if it has to do with intelligence, education, or whatever. I tried to see if any coaching on my part would improve. But first I have to find out the guy’s problem.

I did.

The guy is not observant, and thus never acquired any general knowledge. Example is he was helpful in throwing boxes out that contained new telephones I just bought from Staples. I told him to keep one, and he gave me a puzzled look, and the cashier next to him shook her head in amazement. I ask the cashier to explain to him why.

She said “in case there?s a problem with the phone, you put it back in the box and bring it back.”

He smiled and said “oh, never thought of it”. In another conversation, he rented a new apartment, but didn’t recall if it came with an oven".

I asked him if he ever pays attention to anything other than what he has to do. For instance, if he hopped on the bus, does he look at the neighborhood he passes by to see what stores are there, the people sitting next to him, to for instance see if there’s someone looking to pick his pocket. He said no.

In order to do properly coach there has to be something the students have to begin with.

FINALLY YOU ASK

“Where do you think that’s coming from? Do you think it’s avoidance of coaching without understanding how it works or true preference for other methods?”

– For many professions, there are certifications and licenses, like CPA, RE Broker, CLU etc. Even plumbers and beauticians, my barber has a license. If there are no barber licenses, I?m even afraid to get a haircut not knowing what it?ll look like when finished.

To me, doing an RE deal is a bigger deal than a haircut. There are no licenses for coaches, so I can’t tell what the quality of coaching I get is the quality of a ChrisX or that of McKorkle (it’s the money)

Frank Chin

All the FREE Coaching you need!!! - Posted by WAREIA

Posted by WAREIA on September 19, 2006 at 17:05:30:

Not only have I worked as a “Coach” for PEI, I have several friends that still do. I also have a good friend who owns a call center of Coaches for at least 10 other Gurus that you would know.

Only a handful of the so-called Coaches have ever invested in Real Estate let alone bought their own house. Most are kids , 19 to 25, that are reading scripts off the wall of their cubicals and have no idea what they are saying. They read canned responses to you questions.

By buddy who owns the Coaching Centers now makes, and this is no joke, over $2 million per month personally from overrides of coaching upsales. He has about 200 kid/coaches/robots working for him. Each one of them makes $8,000 to $10,000 per month.

I would rather Birddog for an experienced local investor and split the profits on a deal then pay $5000 to $10,000 for a boot camp or coaching program.

CRE isn’t hard to figure out. There are only two ways to buy Real Estate… Cash or Terms. All we have to do is figure out which one will work for us and them.

Cash: Anyone with half way decent credit can buy properties so that’s not tough.

Terms: Anyone that can make a phone call can ask a seller if they would take payments, so that’s not tough either.

That’s all I do all day is make phone calls to Sellers, Realtors, Attorneys, Lenders and other Investors and track down deals and make offers. How tough can that be?

Either they will sell for cash or they will agree to keep the existing financing in place for awhile.

All I ever ask any Seller is…

How much would you take for All Cash?

-and/or-

For a Full Price Offer would you be willing to take payments for a few years?

Using only that over the last five years I’ve done over 200 deals, all without coaching.

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on September 15, 2006 at 08:14:45:

Chris:

We had an exchange on the Carleton sheets board, and I gave you a thread:

http://www.creonline.com/wwwboard2/messages/28169.html

that goes into the particulars about the Sheet’s coaching program. I wonder what you thought of it if you read it.

I’m a business owner RE investor, as well as a manager of people in large corporations, and I was able to observe how people learn to do things. Getting a coach to teach you RE is one way, but for many, not a good way to learn, but others maybe OK… I find that too many people learn by repeating cookie cutter recipes, and fail if there’s any small change.

But I found “rule number one” is you only learn something if you really want to learn it. I see you’re OK here.

But there are things that I found hard to teach, and conversely, hard to learn, for the student. For instance:

  • Risk tolerenace. There’s an upside and downside to any deal, and how willing are you to take risks. I don’t think a mentor can teach you that.

  • Managing change. I asked a local business owner what his biggest challenge was, and he says “things change so much”. If you ran around with a mentor in an up market, do you know things now changed to a down market, assuming you figured this out, and do you need another mentor, and another script, for that??

  • Recognizing a deal. I took a RE course once at local college. Usually a course is taught on “how to do a deal”. For instance, someone has a property for sale, you want to flip it, so the course teaches you how to get a contract, and do the assignment, i.e. the mechanics. But “deal making involves recognizing a deal where no one else sees a deal”, and the professor, who’s done deals for over 30 years, decided to teach it by going into how he “sees a deal”.

It might sound corny, but it brings me to some thoughts I came across watching “Kung Fu”, and about young boys training to be “Kung Fu” masters. The way my dad explained it, they live and breathe Kung Fu by being there years and years, and is imbued with the process. It’s not really learning one or two quick moves at a kung fu studio.

Watching interviews with some of famous master of Kung Fu “Bruce Lee’s” friends, they mentioned that he would extend his palms slowly, and gently, but when it contacts your body, it feels like you’re hit with a ton of bricks, and you’ll fly across the room. Apparently, it’s inner body strength developed thru the years, and not a “move or two” taught in a Tiger Schulman studio.

Here’s how I see coaching.

If you follow the coach around, see him talk to sellers, buyers, bankers etc. That’s OK. But if you do your own deal later on, the seller, buyer, banker would all be different people. So are you learning what to say from a script, or reacting to people’s motivation and wants.

One good thing I can say about coaching is maybe there’s a set schedule, someone gets you off the couch, and away from the TV, and get you going.

But mostly, to be a success in anything, it involves business sense, and common sense, things I find hard to teach.

Frank Chin

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 18, 2006 at 19:39:36:

Hi Natalie,

We both agree with Killer Joe on coaching often being used as a substitute for motivation (not sure about guts), but I can’t agree about lack of talent.

Like a lot of people, I had no talent for this business of real estate when I started. I had talent as a secretary/administrative assistant, and I wasn’t talented at that when I started! But I see so often, in students too, where determination to learn something makes up for starting with a complete lack of talent.

We all know it’s crazy when people hand over their credit card after 3 hours of hammering on the phone and then say, “Ok, make me rich”–substituting their credit card for motivation.

When I said it doesn’t take “time” I meant when working with a student, it’s possible for them to write an offer on a profitable deal as soon as they find it (whether or not they know all they’d like to or whether they’ve developed business skills). Someone else will still be reading a book, studying a course, asking a realtor some questions or waiting for the next investment group meeting. And though they absolutely need to do those things as well, those are still the recommended methods OVER coaching.

Starting out, I made money once I knew how to analyze possible deals, write offers and get them accepted. A coach could have walked me through a deal as well as training me, in general, but they didn’t exist then, so it took me “time”–a lot of “time”. Why do you think it isn’t the preferred recommendation?

ChrisX

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 16, 2006 at 14:10:45:

Hi Frank, and Wow,

I appreciate the time and thought you put into your post–but it’s really long! I’ll try to make my response as short as I can.

I didn’t have comments on the “post from the past” because I wrote it. I said the marketing sucks. And I said it again in this thread.

You’re welcome to email me and I’ll be glad to give details of why I made the decision to coach for Carleton Sheets or any other gurus. Real estate is my business, and it was a way to give back without having to create a whole additional business around it (marketing myself, etc). You know why it wasn’t what I thought it would be.

MOST of Sheets’ coaches were everything you would want them to be. I’m still close friends with several of them who are no longer there either. They had individual reasons for being there as well. I haven’t known any Sheets’ coaches since.

I have a website. I do personal coaching. I’m not advertising here for students. I still see the way real estate training is currently marketed as hype, and it doesn’t have to be done that way.

I don’t believe people have to be pressured to buy training. I do believe personal training has a cost and a value, and I believe it makes all the difference in the world. I see how it’s sold, and I know what happens after the sale.

I post helpful answers when I can. And there’s a bias against coaching “out there”. I asked for opinions here because I would like successful investors and newbies to help me to better understand it.

On someone asking for help when they had a coach, I would think the student would put the time and energy into getting a refund–I agreed with the poster who said she thought they might be advertising. Why wouldn’t the student be someplace like the ripoff report instead? (Which speaks volumes about my thoughts on most marketing and coaching–I’m not affiliated.)

Things are never going to be rosey when you’re in business to get the money. If educating the student isn’t what you’re doing, if you’re getting the money, it gets ugly–not fast enough, unfortunately. I’m not talking about Carleton, as a person (as I already said in the post from the past).

The marketing of courses and coaching “sucks”! I said it again. Marketing groups that end up with leads from all the top gurus use methods no one can defend.

If you email me, Frank, I’ll give you my blog. I’m not a Sheets coach. Finding myself in a cubbie didn’t change me or make me anything I’m not. I’m not less capable than a Sheets coach.

I can’t explain how I coach, or why it works, here. Everything I said about having managerial skills, etc is true. You don’t have to be anything but a person who wants to make money with real estate to get it done.

You could say, “why should I listen to you?”. “Who the hell is ChrisX?”–the title of one of my new blogs, by the way. I hope you can see you can’t put anyone in a nice little box and say that’s who they are.

You’re absolutely right when you say it’s hard to know if you’re going to be working with a ChrisX or a McCorkle (empathy for his victims, and God love him and the wife for the entertainment value we’ve all gotten from their bizzare exploits–along with the guy on the bow of the boat with a bevy of beauties!). I have an article on my blog about the last Real Estate Wealth Expo last spring, and it’s about this same thing. You might know there’s hype involved when chicks with “Fun” emblazoned on their chests gyrate onstage! Come on, Donald! Yet thousands hand over the cash and cry for more. It still amazes me.

And I love it that someone like Pat, the beginner, posted here–he isn’t glazed over in the front row at the Expo!

Your example of the student having to have something is true. They’ve got to want to do it.

Finally, I don’t need a license to help people make money. I don’t need a license to make money with real estate, and no one else does either.

I do thank you for writing this. I think coaching should be recommended as a good method, right along with all the other methods–but it won’t be if there’s a bias and we don’t understand the basis for it. The replies I’ve gotten are from people who haven’t had coaching, which is valuable to me, because who knows what happened in situations where people have. We weren’t there for it. When people who haven’t had coaching recommend against it, I’m interested in how they came to that conclusion.

ChrisX

Re: All the FREE Coaching you need!!! - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 19, 2006 at 22:01:02:

Wow, I’m not aware of 200 coaches making $8-10K a month. And if each one works with 20 students a week, and each student pays an average of $8K for their program, which includes being read to from scripts for about 12 weeks, that’s about $128 million being collected annually by the marketing companies and gurus.

Good one! And I’m my own grandpa.

ChrisX

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 15, 2006 at 15:34:29:

Hi Frank,

Had to throw this in–no one followed me around when being coached by me. They call on prospective deals in their own market, we go over what they’re finding together, we brainstorm what would work for the seller and for them and, if the numbers work, we structure offers. We go into details on determining motivation, using real situations that are in front of them, details on analyzing comps that are in front of them, details on financing that would work and won’t work on those deals, and why. But following me around won’t do that for them in their own market. And, most of all, watching me make a deal doesn’t make them a dime. If they put a deal together with my help, it’s their deal.

By the way, a student sent me a full page ad of Carleton Sheets’ new program of putting people on the bus! Going to drive them around to show them what to do! Didn’t someone do that years ago? Again, it doesn’t help the student when they get home to their real world.

And the latest “new” technology of Trump’s university–where you learn online on a simulator of a city with simulated deals–is really, really far from what works in their real world, in my opinion. It just gets further and further away from what works.

I’ll go far out on a limb and say, I believe coaching makes success possible more quickly and safely than any books, tapes and courses. I believe it so strongly that I’d say the course and coaching materials aren’t even necessary if you have coaching. Too radical?

ChrisX

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by Killer Joe

Posted by Killer Joe on September 15, 2006 at 09:24:00:

Frank,

I think you touched on a very important point and that point is risk tolerenace. I spent a good portion of my adult life in R&D and it always amazed me how there was such a wide spectrum in the folks I dealt with on how they could handle the inevitable failures that came along with the successes that were few and far between.

These were all degreed folks with Masters and PHDs so obviously they were heavy on the education side. What struck me as odd were the folks that had a hard time confronting results that did not jive with their expectations regarding the outcome of the research. Some folks are just not comfortable with risk regardless of how much they have learned about a subject.

It could be argued that you are either born with the ability to handle failures, frustration, and risk, or you’re not. Perhaps it is a talant that can be learned, but better to have as part of your nature from the get-go.

On one project I was involved in over a six year period I spent a significant portion of my time ‘coaching’ others who were newer participants on the project how to handle the continued failures that the processes of discovery inevitably breed. A lot of them never could reconcile the failure rate we had with their personal goals of achieving a successful outcome.

In RE investing I see a correlation to R&D regarding failure/success that takes perhaps even a stronger sense on the part of the REI to handle the inevitable rejections, risks, and failures that come with the territory. No coaching will ever eliminate that feeling in your gut when the circumstances of the deal push you past your comfort zone. At that point, your ability to handle risk will determine if you push harder or back off to a safer place.

Coaching, imho, can help lead a horse to water, but it can’t make the horse drink.

KJ

A few more thoughts … - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on September 17, 2006 at 06:43:32:

Chris:

Here’s the obtacles to someone to successfully using ONLY coaching to do RE:

  • Most people heard of books, tapes, bootcamps, NOT MANY heard of coaching till perhaps called after buying books and tapes. So books and tapes are the usual lead-in to coaching.

  • Since the first anyone heard of coaching is from Sheets or McKorkle, and you don’t market, how is someone suppposed to find you??

  • One of the advantages I find now that I have business and management experience is the ability to size people up quickly. I believe young Pat above would NOT have chosen ChrisX as a coach since most inexperienced people are affected by marketing, and probably NEVER heard of coaching to begin with. Inexperienced people would not be able to tell a good coach from an ineffective one.

Conclusions:

We all travel on the journey of life. Those WITH NO EXPERIENCE traveling this route, found the path to ChrisX, who can take the INEXPERIENCE, and turn them into RE Pros, may find success.

What about about those who took a different path. The INEXPERIENCED traveled down a different path, and found the McKorkle coach. Can he figure out it’s a scam??

I agree with you on this:

I find people starting out concentrating on the most irrelevant things. Some people wouldn’t buy properties to rent saying “I don’t know anything about toilets”. OK, so you’ll become a landlord after following a plumber around a year. If they did that, next they’ll say "I don’t know what to do if the tenant didn’t pay the rent. OK, so spend some time working for an eviction attorney.

Well, the problems and issues never ends.

The other extreme is you can feed limited info to limited people, and they can succeed in a limited sphere. This “limited person” working for me works very well, once you sit down and explain things to him, on the very thing he’s working on.

The problem is when he does the next thing.

But in the long run, their limited knowledge may well be the limitation, and they’l forever need a coach, like the limited fella working for me. Working with this guy, I can see how coaching works, but also the limitations.

I was able to coach this idiot, 36 years old, married, do a number of amazing things. But the other night, the office had a discussion with him why it’s not a good idea to buy pizza around the corner from us, it’s a dollar cheaper arouund here, and bring it onto a crowded standing room only bus to get it home. We told him that other’s on the bus may have a problem with the odor, and other issues, and he couldn’t see the merits of it. But then we told him the pizza could drop on the floor and get stomped on, and he’s no longer saving $1.00 did he see the light.

It was during this discussion that we found out he had no idea if his kitchen had an oven since he asked about what to do with leftover pizza from the night before. We told him the next time he rents an apartment, pay attention what it comes with, because he might have to heat up a leftover pizza.

So, we became the Pizza coach. The coaching next ends.

Chris, you’re an interesting fellow, and I would sure like to see your blog. My email address is is "SChinFChin@aol.com"

Frank Chin

Re: All the FREE Coaching you need!!! - Posted by WAREIA

Posted by WAREIA on September 20, 2006 at 11:55:49:

Well then, I guess you are working for the wrong coaching company.

Even those that spend 20 to 30 min with a “student” make $20 to $50 per session and still read from scripts with no personnal experience whatsoever.

With some of these “coaching” programs the coach is not just a coach, they are also required to upsale or encourage the purchase of other products and services.

I’ve seen and was taught myself to help students to acquire more credit cards to pay for more coaching and services. I’ve personally seen people get two to three new cards and max them out to pay for additional services all recommended by their coaches.

Your math is correct and that is why my friend nets over $2 Million per month personally.

It is my opinion that today, more money is made selling the courses and coaching than Investors make buying and selling homes. This is how the all the fortures were made during the Gold Rush of “49”, selling all the supplies to the prospectors.

Ohhh, so you’re a Coach - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on September 15, 2006 at 17:46:05:

Chris:

Here we thought you were a newbie checking out the merits of coaching.

Some people need a crutch, or need some assurances, almost like having a therapist. My wife refuses to drive to places in NJ by herself, unless I drove her there once or twice and back. Claims she has trouble reading road maps, get car sick reading it etc. It’ll be another excuse if I get GPS.

It’s one of those things.

Some people refuse to do anything till they seem it done once, and walked thru it once or twice to gain the confidence. It’s like training wheels on a bike. Friends of mine asked about doing rentals, and since they never tried out being landlord, refused to do it.

I can’t figure out how to coach landlording. Maybe when my mom in law calls the wife and says “please call my tenant, talk to him …” comes close.

I’m sure there’s a market for the new REI to call for assurance when they do deals. Something like the “REI Hotline”??

Frank Chin

Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 15, 2006 at 15:13:49:

Thanks Joe, for your thoughts too.

On the coaching question, I have to say coaching doesn’t help lead a horse to water. You lead the horse to water, explain what’s going on with the pond (as opposed to other ponds), why he doesn’t need to walk out to the middle, where it’s over his head, to get a drink, what he does need to do to get a drink, and encourage him not to refuse to get a drink ever again just because he snorted water up his nose several times because he didn’t have it right yet–that you’re standing there and you’ll stay until he gets it right if he wants, etc.

I don’t see how you arrive at the view you have of it, I guess; and I do want to know how you’ve made that judgement because it’s one a lot of people have.

I may be wrong, but my assumption is that the general public (around the subject of real estate) seems to line up on two sides about coaching. Either they’re "poo-poo"ing coaching or they’re receiving negative opinions about it. And I wonder what the basis is for it.

I should go back to Frank’s post above this to respond with what I’m saying now, but I read the post he talked about and I think that was all about marketing of courses combined with coaching. Marketing being the part everybody agreed was tacky, crude and rude. I’m really asking about the value of coaching here, and trying to figure out if people just bash or “poo-poo” it offhand without having a basis, and what the basis is.

A very small minority succeed with just books and a course. And I admire that they have all the personal skills you both discussed that make it possible for them to take what they have and run with it. So is there value in coaching for the majority?

ChrisX