Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Real Estate Investing Real Estate Gurus
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Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on September 15, 2006 at 11:41:25:

Joe:

I have these conversations with my “mom in law”, my dad, folks in his generation, many of them never finished high school. Yet they gone into businesses as described in the book “Millionaire Next Door”.

You mentioned Masters and Phd’s, and I got one Master, the wife got two. It seems when we look at things, it’s what can go wrong. Others less eduacated seems to concentrate on what can go right, and these folks seems to have a common sense better than the PHd’s.

I recall one day, a snowstorm came by NY early one morning, and we were deciding whether to open or close the business. After discussing it for a few hours, we came to the brilliant conclusion to wait till 9:00am, call the office, see how many people showed up. As it turned out, almost everyone did.

The wife spoke to me later that day mentioning that when she spoke to her mom, her mom said off handedly, all you have to do is wait till 9:00AM, and see who shows up, exactly what it took us hours to decide.

Well, she’s got more common sense.

My mom laughed at us, with 3 Masters between us, that we should get a “civil service” job. When asked why, she explains that people with degrees are good for jobs where you don’t have to think too hard.

Having worked in large corporations, managing staffs, there’s some truth to the observation.

Frank Chin

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Here’s An Idea… - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 17, 2006 at 11:58:17:

Hi Frank,

Thanks for posting, and I’ll send you an email. Sorry for any confusion again, but I’m an interesting gal. hee hee. And I do market my coaching, but not here.

I totally agree with you about the hype–One nameless big guru recently said he was going to create a million millionaires in a year, and the strong-arm tactics are alive and well while the students aren’t getting what they need. One internet marketing mother-son team say they’ll create “your family’s million-dollar real estate empire”.

Here’s an idea…If you’d like me to walk you through the process of acquiring a profitable property, step by step, let’s do it. Free of Charge

Don’t know if you’re a beginner or an experienced investor–it doesn’t matter. If you’re willing to put in the work and time involved (it will take about 45 days), just let me know.

If Pat, the beginner, is interested, I’ll tell him about it too. Anybody else that’s interested can let me know–Chris dot exxx at gmail dot com.

This could be fun! No hype, no bull, no complainin’ and moanin’. I’ll handpick 5 people to work with who want to get it done.

I haven’t thought through how we’ll document everything we do, but we’ll do that. Let’s make it happen. I’ll look forward to hearing back from you.

ChrisX

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Re: Ohhh, so you’re a Coach - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 15, 2006 at 21:04:26:

Hi Frank,

I’m sorry for the confusion–I’d say I’m an “oldie” but still wanting to know your opinions. This is good because I think you’re saying only some people need coaching and you see it as something of a crutch, a form of assurance, similar to having a therapist.

I do respect your opinion, and you taking time to discuss it, but those things aren’t coaching. Maybe I’d be clearer if I said what it isn’t. Coaching isn’t doing it for the student so they observe (it is them being walked through their process as you said). It isn’t leaning on a coach like a crutch, it’s walking through the steps we all know it takes (on your own with instructions and tips) and going over where it’s not working for you and having help to figure out why and what to do about it.

It CAN seem like therapy, you’re right! Only when the excuses come.

Your idea of a hotline is a good one, and I’d kind of compare it to the forums where people can get that one piece of missing advice or confirmation for what they’re thinking. What troubles me is when someone sincerely wants to know if they’ve found a deal or how to get started, and it’s obvious no quicky answers will be of help (no matter how good or lengthy)–there’s always the next question after getting past that step.

What about my “Mom” question–you wouldn’t see that as a crutch, or as someone needing assurance. You might see it as therapy, tee hee. But wouldn’t you say it would be getting the help that works when you need it and cutting back the time factor and being told (as only a mother can, ha ha) when you’re heading in a direction that can get you in trouble?

ChrisX

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Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by Killer Joe

Posted by Killer Joe on September 15, 2006 at 16:54:50:

Chris,

I’m not "poo-poo"ing coaching. I think if you look at any major sports figure you will see they have gotten farther along in their chosen field than they would have without the coaching. But they had to have had the talent within to begin with.

As far as my analogy, your words “until he gets it right if he wants, etc.” certainly pertains. Especially the ‘if he wants’ part. You could have your RE coach walk you through your market, pick out a property that fits your criteria, negotiate with the seller, and have the contracts written up. But if you as the student/buyer are still in a place of uncertainty and are out of your comfort zone, you still may balk when the pen is placed in your hand. If your risk/reward-o-meter is redlining, or you feel the timing isn’t perfect, etc, you are not going to ‘run with it’ as you say. Not without coming down with a world class case of buyers’ remorse.

So it brings us back to the individual. If that individual has it in them to significantly make forward strides in this or any other endeavor, I see very little downside to coaching if the monetary costs are inline and the results are contributing to a faster or hightened, ie productive experience for the student. Unfortunately that is not always the case. All too often coaching is used as a substitute for either lack of talent, motivation or guts. There is an entire industry set up to take advantage of folks who are borderline committers and fall prey to the ‘easy out’.

As a personal anicdote, I bought the CS course in 1995 and about six months later their ‘coaches’ called me and offered to ‘coach’ me for a meer $1495.00. When I responded I already had used the course info to purchase two properties they thanked me and hung up. The fact that they were in Utah and I was in SoCal and they didn’t have a clue as to what was happening in my market (totally in the dumps at that point in time) didn’t foster any feelings of confidence on my part in their abilities.

So bottom line, if the coach is worth his/her weight, and the student is at a juncture in life to be able to utilize the coaching so there is a value for value relationship it should be a good thing. If it is just one more crutch I’m against it.

KJ

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Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 15, 2006 at 14:47:05:

Thanks, Frank,

You make good points, but you may be mixing courses and coaching…

“Getting a coach to teach you RE is one way, but for many, not a good way to learn, but others maybe OK… I find that too many people learn by repeating cookie cutter recipes, and fail if there’s any small change.”

All good courses do give cookie cutter techniques–example–telling the student to make calls on ads to find potential deals. And a small number of people are off and running to success with just that. The same for good real estate books. So you are right that a good many people fail.

If the majority of people can’t do it with books or courses, and you say Coaching is not a good way for many to learn, who do they go over their calls with to get help if they’re not getting the information they need or if they’re having difficulty determining seller motivation, etc. They may have 5 questions on one ad call but the answers are a learning experience they can apply to different situations in the future.

When students get the answers as they go, they have the courage to go forward through the steps until they’re writing offers (another fearful plateau) and making money.

I liked what you said about “Mom”. If you were going into real estate and your mom had been there, done that, she’d obviously be your best route to success. But she’d be there on a weekly basis for you (while insisting you also study a good basic course) to answer the million and one questions we all had. It’s the “detail” that’s valuable–the common complaint is that courses don’t go into enough detail, and it isn’t possible for them to.

Can you say a paid “Mom” with the real estate knowledge the student needs doesn’t work for the majority? My experience shows me that isn’t true, but I’m asking why you say it–if you still do?

Appreciate the good discussion, thanks, ChrisX

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Re: Here’s An Idea… - Posted by dennis

Posted by dennis on September 18, 2006 at 01:29:49:

chris !!! my name is dennis, i live in hawaii. how are you gonna coach me for 45 days from where you live. or does it matter where we live??? oh and when it is 10pm east coast time it is 4pm here!!!aloha

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Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 15, 2006 at 23:21:38:

Hi again Joe,

I replied to you and scrolled near the top of the messages where I read a great post by “Pat” who says “Needs Advice Starting at Young Age”.

I read a couple of replies to Pat and think I can confidently say no one will be recommending he get coaching ASAP! But here’s why I think someone like him absolutely has to. (I did absolutely love Joe Kaiser’s reply and agree with it, but I sense Pat does want to do a fixer upper, and I’d say let’s fan the fire!)

Hope it’s okay to copy paragraphs of his post here–I mean no disrespect by talking about his post ‘behind his back’. I only mean to help, but I don’t want to go there and post what I’m discussing with you all (though I hope he catches what we’re discussing). Let me say, I have no interest in becoming Pat’s coach, and I’m not selling a course (I don’t have one) or coaching services. This just so illustrates why I’m asking people’s opinions.

Okay, when I read his post, here’s what I’m thinking–you could call it Inside a Coach’s Head:

Pat says, “I am 18 and have just started posting–I’m one of those long time readers.”

Why is he still reading, why isn’t he doing, well he’s 18 and can now sign contracts, but he could have had his parents sign for properties he bought, but it’s good he’s taking action now.

“And I feel I’m stuck with a double edge sword with my age. I have a long time to invest and can probably retire early. I feel as if lenders will not take me seriously (biased against age…it happens).”

Real smart kid, aware of the general view out there in the world. Not good that he feels it’s true, or that he’s buying into the worldview as true for him.

“and the other which is more interesting to me is buying a fixer upper…one at a time and either rent out or sell when they are done. Now it seems easy when other investors post something like this…and they LIVE in the fixer upper while they are fixing it and get off to a great start that way. Getting owner occ. loans and so on.”

A young man after my own heart–love the fixer uppers and foreclosures, but I love all of it, agree it seems easy when you read about it in books, courses, on the forums, etc; but he’s not just buying into how easy it is, he’s smart enough to see and acknowledge that it doesn’t seem that easy for him. Good for him for asking for help. Not good that he’s honed in on getting owner occupied loans as a primary source of financing but we can clear that up.

“The perk of me being 18 is that I live with my parents, ya ya I’m not ashamed. I’m only 18! (yes I am in college, I go to school online and will graduate with a degree). I have a fulltime job and it’s not at a restaurant. I work for a large website company (monster.com).”

Great, using OPM already by living at home (tee hee) and sees it for what it is–a way to keep from blowing money on housing he doesn’t need yet. Has a job, won’t be freaked out, thinking he has to buy something–anything–to get money or he won’t eat tomorrow.

“This means I don’t pay rent, AND I don’t have to LIVE in the fixer upper while I’m fixing it.”

Good thinking–easier to work and get it done that way!

“Don’t have a mortgage. Don’t have kids. Don’t really have many bills except for a car. So I do have SOME credit.”

Great awareness that these things are an asset (or not having them is an asset, I guess) because these things can create fear in some of us older folks who don’t want to lose stuff we have! Great candidate because can create the financial situation he wants to have to provide for a family in the future. Yes! Doesn’t have any of the college campus giveaway credit cards with $120 grand already charged up by age 18! Double Yes!

“The thing I am struggling with is, the LOAN process in which an eighteen year old is supposed to go through. I don’t know if my credit rating/history will warrant a traditional loan, whether it be a REHAB loan, a Refi, or a traditional mortgage.”

Well, here’s where Pat’s taken a turn in his thinking again. Got to get him off the focus on and concern over loans, got to get his focus where it needs to be–on finding deals. There will always be money for him for good deals.

The remaining paragraphs are requests for help to understand different types of financing, what the requirements of each are, etc. And he asks finally for any tips on the loan process.

This is a fantastic post, and it’s so great for what we’re talking about. I say, if Pat had coaching, he’d buy a property in 45 days. If he just reads books, studies a course, posts questions on forums, attends investor group meetings, asks realtors for help, etc, I believe this excited, positive kid could be frustrated and burned out long before he succeeds.

I am not saying these things won’t help him. I’m saying this kid could buy a property in 45 days (a good deal). Pat won’t buy a property in 45 days. Not because of anything I say or any of the good advice you give him here, but because the advice is the worldview of what’s possible. Of what works. Of the best way to learn. Of how it’s done.

It’s frustrating and disappointing to me because I don’t have that worldview, and I have a different experience of real estate. Makes me want to grab him, shake him up, ask him to temporarily suspend his beliefs in what everybody says and give me 45 days.

ChrisX

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Re: Personal coaching for real estate? - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 15, 2006 at 21:30:46:

Hi Joe,

Please excuse me if I’m not posting my part of these conversations under or after the right posts everyone has contributed. I get lost reading them and start replying without looking where I’m at or under!

I appreciate what you’re saying, but this part doesn’t happen:

“You could have your RE coach walk you through your market, pick out a property that fits your criteria, negotiate with the seller, and have the contracts written up.”

If the coach did that, you’re right about what would happen next:

“But if you as the student/buyer are still in a place of uncertainty and are out of your comfort zone, you still may balk when the pen is placed in your hand. If your risk/reward-o-meter is redlining, or you feel the timing isn’t perfect, etc, you are not going to ‘run with it’ as you say. Not without coming down with a world class case of buyers’ remorse.”

Which is why I say they have to do it themselves with help. I totally agree with you, and everyone else, about the individual being the biggest factor. I don’t think $1500 is too much for the “available” benefit (assuming the coach is knowledgeable as we’ve all said). I’ve seen programs sold for up to $17,000 this year. That I disagree with–and we’re back to Utah marketing + products the student will never use = nothing good. IMO. Do you think toxic marketing has carried over to the belief that coaching itself is “the devil”.

I agree with your last paragraph. You were just trying to make me pry it out of you, hee hee.

ChrisX

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Re: Here’s An Idea… - Posted by ChrisX

Posted by ChrisX on September 18, 2006 at 10:49:35:

Aloha Dennis,

It doesn’t matter where you live in the US. I’ve coached students from Hawaii to Alaska to Florida, and California to New York. We set coaching calls for a time when we’re both awake (he he) that works for us.

Coaching calls for regular students are usually once a week for a half hour or so, for 2-3 months. And that works. Since we’re shortening the length of time by about half, we may meet more often.

Send me an email if you’re interested, and I’ll give you some info.

ChrisX

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Holy Cow Batman! - Posted by Killer Joe

Posted by Killer Joe on September 16, 2006 at 24:03:20:

Chris,

If he spent 45 days with 95% of the successful investors on this board he would be on his way. Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger. But only if he is more than a motivated buyer at this stage.

“If Pat had coaching, he’d buy a property in 45 days”. Getting in is the easy part. Nobody gets a paycheck for getting in. And I’m including getting $10K back at closing with $1K a month holding costs attached. The payday comes when you either sell the property or put it into use. If you controlled a property and flipped it, you not only got in, you got out. And hopefully with a paycheck.

KJ