Plumbing problems start after closing on house - Posted by Fran and Tony CA

Posted by Tim Jensen on April 02, 2002 at 16:50:17:

Joe,

I disagree. If it clearly states that you are selling a house in AS-IS condition, the judge is going to rule in the favor of the Seller. Now, if the seller tried to hide the problem thats a different story.

Tim Jensen

Plumbing problems start after closing on house - Posted by Fran and Tony CA

Posted by Fran and Tony CA on April 02, 2002 at 13:42:44:

We sold a house back in February and since the NEW owners have been in it there have been a few problems crop up.

To let you know, we had started rehabbing this house and had not completed the rehab when we got an offer on the house. The buyers were aware at the time of signing the contract that the house wasn’t complete and they were buying the house “AS IS”.

Since then, there has been a major leak in the wall, which we paid to have repaired. Now there is another problem with the plumbing in the downstairs bath, causing flooding into the basement (we installed a sump pump during the rehab). We would like to know if we are responsible for this problem?

In the contract it states, “Unless specifically excluded, all other items will be included, whether or not affixed to the property or structures. Seller expressly warrants that property, improvements, building or structures, the appliances, roof, plumbing, heating and or ventilation systems are in good and working order. This clause shall survive closing of title.”

Since in the addendum it is clearly stated that they are purchasing the house “AS IS”, does the warranty still apply to the plumbing? It seems to us that there is possibly a block line and that Roto Rooter needs to be called, but the buyers keep calling us instead of taking care of the problem. Since this wasn’t a problem when we sold the house, are we responsible for it now?

Thank you,

Fran and Tony

Re: Plumbing problems start after closing on house - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA) on April 03, 2002 at 01:42:26:

Tony and Fran-------------

You are asking a legal question. You might want to ask a real estate attorney about what your obligations are, not listen to other investors, even if they are experienced.

Is this your Alameda Victorian? I hope you made a nice profit from it.

You wrote ealier about a contractor problem with your Antioch house. Now this problem with this house. Sounds like your path to real estate riches is NORMAL. Not perhaps exactly what you anticipated when you started, though, huh?

Good for you hanging in there and enduring the slings and arrows of outrageous real estate fortune.

Good Investing***Ron Starr

Had a similar situation - Posted by Tim Jensen

Posted by Tim Jensen on April 02, 2002 at 16:18:27:

Fran and Tony,

I had a similar situation happen to me. I think it was great that you paid for the first problem, I did the same thing. Then the woman called me again about a month later on the same problem. At that point, I explained that it was not my responsibility since I no longer owned the house. They will have to take care of it themselves. If they start complaining remind them how they bought the house AS-IS and that you are not liable to fix anything. Its their house not yours.

If you don’t tell them this now, they will keep coming back to you.

As for the clause: “Unless specifically excluded, all other items will be included, whether or not affixed to the property or structures. Seller expressly warrants that property, improvements, building or structures, the appliances, roof, plumbing, heating and or ventilation systems are in good and working order. This clause shall survive closing of title.”

What that means is that at time of closing everything will be in working order, which it was. In other words, if they get into the house and they go to turn on the furnace it better work or you may have to pay. However, this is all moot because they signed a document stating they took the place AS-IS. Tell them NICELY that you are not going to pay for the repairs since you no longer own the place.

Good Luck,
Tim

Re: Plumbing problems start after closing on house - Posted by Sean

Posted by Sean on April 02, 2002 at 15:30:27:

On your next house, include a Home Warranty from American Home Sheild. Costs you $300 and only costs the new homeowner $35 for someone to come and fix it. I’ve used mine a couple of times and to date has saved me well over a $1000.

Re: Plumbing problems start after closing on house - Posted by JoeS

Posted by JoeS on April 02, 2002 at 14:48:27:

This is a tough problem. I run across it frequently. What to do? This is how I handle it. I and myself go through the house and list all the things that are wrong. We both sign it. Then I have my plumber go in and fix them, at my expense. The owner and I then sign the sheet stating that they were fixed to their satisfaction.

Do I LEGALLY have to do that? NO! But, when the owner calls the bank complaining, the bank will not like it when thsy stop paying the payment. Is that likely? Maybe, maybe not. But, I made a good buck on the place when I sold it, so I can afford to fix whatever needs to be fixed within reason, usually a few hundred bucks. Besided you want these people to badmouth you all over the town? Not me!

I’m sure other investors may do things different, but that is MY take on it!

Re: Plumbing problems start after closing on house - Posted by mike

Posted by mike on April 02, 2002 at 14:30:40:

I bought a house as-is, and when I flushed the upstairs toilet for the first time, it came out the garage ceiling. I fixed it at my own expense. tell them to quit calling you, it’s not your problem.

Re: Plumbing problems start after closing on house - Posted by Kent C

Posted by Kent C on April 02, 2002 at 15:51:38:

Are we talking about fixer uppers? Or just loose terminology to try to limit liability on a “ready-to-move-in” house?

If it is a fixer-upper,
I see “as is”, AS IS. Now if I felt I had mislead them somehow, I might offer to fix things. But I buy all my homes as-is. If that house falls apart the day after closing…its on me. But I am not giving much for these so I understand the risk. I think the only way a house sale could be used to hurt your rep is if it appeared you mislead or “rigged” soemthing. How about “over”-verbalizing the negative connotation of as-is when signing to be safe and say something akin to: “You understand that as-is means if the roof falls in the day after close it is on you. However I will guarantee anything you like…for an increased price (grin).”

An as-is price should be low enough that they can afford to fix things. Of course I am talking about fixer-uppers.

Do you use “as-is” terminology for relatively fixed up house sales too? I could understand feeling a little beholden on those. The implication being that it is in at least fair condition and ready to go.

Kent C

Re: Plumbing problems start after closing on house - Posted by JoeS

Posted by JoeS on April 02, 2002 at 16:45:24:

I am talking about houses that people move into. Even if they know there are repairs to be made they will complain. If you ever sat in front of a judge and jury over a deal, you would LOSE hands down even if you sold the place “AS IS”. Why? The judge looks upon you as an expert in your field, thus hels to a higher standard than a regular homeowner.

In NY recently, March 1,2002 there has been a new set of papers that the seller has to give the buyer before a purchase contract is made. They replace the old set of Disclosures. I think the new set better puts into perspective the condition of the property. The buyer has to sign it showing they agree with what is stated. Maybe this will help alleviate problems.