presenting an offer - Posted by Kris


#1

Posted by Greg Scott on October 23, 1998 at 01:35:58:

Bo,
I’m surprised you actually completed it all with that simple little contract. At one point the CAR form was up to 8 pages.

Anyway, I’d like to know the intended meaning of “execute a standard purchase and sales agreement”, if that means another contract, or only to complete the escrow as you did.

Either way, since I have a license, I’m worried about completing the transaction without all the bells and whistles. Maybe it won’t matter when I’m the buyer so much.

Greg


#2

presenting an offer - Posted by Kris

Posted by Kris on October 20, 1998 at 02:04:41:

when you present an offer do you make the offer by way of writting out the contract then giving it to the seller as the offer or do you just make the verbal offer first and than if it’s agreed upon put it in contractural form. Also do you go personally to the seller to make that offer or is some of this done over the phone etc. This question is probably remedial to most of you veterans out there but I’m very much a novice trying to find and purchase my first investment property. Thanks for your help.


#3

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on October 20, 1998 at 21:39:13:

All real estate contracts must be in writing. This is called the “statute of frauds”.

As far as forms go, I wouldn’t goto the office supply store and I would not use any of the RE guru’s preprinted forms. The reason being is that unless those forms are specifically designed for your state and locality, they could be missing very important legal verbage. For instance in Florida, there is a mandatory Energy Efficiency Disclosure on all properties. There is also certain time periods to cancel an offer if it is a condo or new home in Florida. And every state has different laws. Title theory states, lien theory states, community property, separate property. A zillion different disclosures depending on the location.

To sum it up your best bet is to use the contract of your local board of realtors. It should cover all the legalities and disclosures. Then any changes you need to make to weigh it in your favor are done by adding an addendum. If you use some strange Carleton Sheets contract many realtors will get confused and disgruntled at you because they don’t understand the contract. They think you are pulling a fast one.

My .02


#4

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by Tom Brown

Posted by Tom Brown on October 20, 1998 at 13:00:36:

If you will email me your postal address, I will send you a copy of the
contract that is included in the Carleton Sheets course. It is the one I use
in the rare instances that I use a purchase contract. It is written to favor
the buyer, unlike your local board of Realtors contract. It is also more
detailed than the contracts that you will find in the office supply store.

I can’t email it to you because I am in the process of transferring my
materials from one computer system to another.

Tom Brown
redeals@surfsouth.com


#5

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by Tom Brown

Posted by Tom Brown on October 20, 1998 at 08:25:52:

There is no such thing as a verbal contract in real estate. So even if you have a verbal agreement, the seller can back out at any time prior to signing a contract. Why not write the contract first so if it is accepted the seller can sign it right away. This eliminates the chance of the seller receiving another offer or changing his mind altogether.

You should never present an offer to the seller over the phone for the above reasons. I will almost guarantee that if you present an offer to the seller over the phone that isn’t full price, all cash (which is not the kind of offer you will generally make) you will be rejected every time.

Also presenting an offer to the seller in person allows you to develop some rapport with the seller which will aid in negotiating.


#6

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by Elton Allen

Posted by Elton Allen on October 20, 1998 at 08:22:25:

Hi Kris,

This is what I would do? By law in all states realestate contracts for land and/or building MUST be in writing to be binding. It has been said that a verbal RE contract in not worth the paper that they are’nt written on. In other words in RE a verbal offer means nothing.

Write up your offer with all of your contingencies spelled out. If you must add an adendum do so. Also If you have a strategy in mind don’t try to explain it over the phone. Tell the seller, if they ask, that what you have in mind is a little involved and you would like to discuss it in person. When you present the offer, persent it in person to explain all of the details and to answer any of the sellers questions. Even if there is an agent involved spell out in the contract this small phrase, “buyer reserves the right to accompany agent”, and by law the agent has to allow you to come. This will ensure that your offer is presented in a fair and un-baised view. I hope that this helps.

Disclaimer: This is just one man’s opinion.

-E-


#7

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by Carol

Posted by Carol on October 21, 1998 at 07:09:42:

Rob, You surprise me.
I do use a Sheets or Whitney based contract whenever possible, and simply have put it on my own computer, adding or subtracting to suit our situation.

SOME realtors want it on the FARBAR, but there is no requirement in FL about that, and I generally tell them (unless it is an REO, FANNIE MAE. HUD etc)that if they want to fill out a FARBAR contract that’s fine with me, but OUR contract WILL BE THE ADDENDUM, which supercedes the contract in case of conflict.
Carol


#8

Re: presenting an offer - copyright infringement - Posted by Mr Donald (NORVA)

Posted by Mr Donald (NORVA) on October 20, 1998 at 17:36:44:

Kris,

I guess Bronchick was right. There are people out there who use other people’s material without paying for it.

I thought Sheets’ contract was copyrighted by his PEI group - or am I mistaken? Alas, such is the world of copyright infringment. This is no different than Tom saying, I’ll send you a “copy” of the latest Alanis Morrisette CD.

In any event, here’s a better solution for all involved. Go to your friendly local title/escrow/settlement company. Tell them you’re interested in using their services for closing your next deal - which you are (or you ought to be). They’ll give you all the forms you need - if you ask - because they want your future business.

Seems fair to me - or am I missing something on this one?

And yes, all RE offers should be in writing, so use these forms that you’ll be getting, and then, to protect yourself, see an attorney of your choosing before you submit the offer.

Alternatively, you might want to consider PAYING for one of these courses (Bronchick’s comes to mind as having been highly regarded by many on this forum) and using the forms that are already pre-printed in your favour.

Mr Donald.


#9

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by SS

Posted by SS on October 20, 1998 at 09:12:50:

Are there any template forms that can be used when presenting an offer? I currently just anlyze the financials and present a one page summary of the offer. I really don’t want to involve my attorney until the offer is accepted.


#10

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on October 21, 1998 at 20:03:46:

There are 3 main reasons why I use the FAR/BAR and my own addendum.

  1. The previously mentioned disclosures and legalese. Though I haven’t seen Whitney, I know Sheets covers most of the general info but misses the specifics for Florida. For instance he doesn’t mention the Radon Gas, the energy efficiency, and the Lead Based Paint disclosures. For the most part all are mandatory in Florida. That is 3 problems right there. And there are several others problems that I won’t mention here. His contract is good for general info but dangerous if you ever got sued.

  2. Most Realtors want things as simple as possible. If you start pulling out something different from what they are used to seeing (yes it is perfectly legal), they tend to get confused and think you are up to something. What do you think they will tell the sellers, if they think you are playing games? For FSBO’s I guess it doesn’t matter what contract you use, they probably won’t realize what you are up to as long as it looks professional.

  3. There are lots of other addendums that you may have to use and all those addendums go with the FAR/BAR contract and reference the Standards and Paragraphs in it. Other addendums include: Homeowners Association Addendum, Condo Assn. Add., Lead Based Paint Add., FHA/VA Add., Coastal Construction Add., AS IS Add., etc., etc. You see how many there are. For instance, Sheets does not provide a Homeowners Association Addendum. However, the disclosures in it are mandatory under Florida Statute if a HOA exists for the subdivision. If you go into your local Realtor’s store, you will notice that there are 30 or 40 different forms available. By the way I have my broker’s license maybe this biases me.

For all non Florida people. FAR/BAR is the standard contract approved by the Florida Association of Realtors and the Florida Bar.


#11

Re: presenting an offer - copyright infringement - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on October 21, 1998 at 10:08:18:

Although Sheets contract is copy righted, he does give you permission to make as many copies as you want for your own personal use. I don’t think by giving one to a fellow investor is going to infringe on his copy rights. If you were to copy these forms to sell to someone for a profit or copy them to sell in a course of some kind, well then I think you would be headed for trouble.

Since I would have been granted permission to make all the copies I wanted for my own personal use and later decided to GIVE one of those copies away, I don’t think that would violate any copy right laws. That would be like buying a book or ending up with 2 of the same books and then giving one away. The book has been copy righted. What’s difference in this case?


#12

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by Carol

Posted by Carol on October 21, 1998 at 07:16:56:

If you are using your attorney, the time to use them is BEFORE you sign a contract - as mine pointed out.

AFTERWARDS they can’t help you avoid trouble.

On straightforward deals we do our own contracts, do the closing at the title co., and never see an atty. When we have something questionable, we do.
By the way, our atty was VERY impressed with some of the wording of the Sheets contract we used on a deal, and got the title co. to correct the wording of the note they had written. They had used boiler plate; ours was decidedly in our favor. The atty told them to include it verbatim.
It took the atty to convince them.
Of course, have done a few since then, I am more confident, and get pushed around far less!
Carol


#13

Re: presenting an offer - Posted by Bo (GA)

Posted by Bo (GA) on October 20, 1998 at 09:24:13:

Your local Office Depot, OfficeMax, Staples, or similar store will have a section with preprinted legal forms, and 10-pak of “Offer to purchase Real Estate” will run you a couple of bucks only. As these are rather general, I usually add amendments, at the very least an “Inspection of Property Contingency”. If you want a copy of this, e-mail me and I will send it to you.

Bo


#14

Re: presenting an offer, EZ forms - Posted by Greg Scott

Posted by Greg Scott on October 22, 1998 at 24:47:51:

Bo,
I’m glad you brought this up. I purchased a 10 pack of “EZ Legal Forms OFFER TO PURCHASE REAL ESTATE” from Office Depot.

It only 1 page with 8 conditions. Condition 5 says that the parties agree to “execute a standard purchase and sales agreement within __ days…”.

Does the “standard purchase and sales agreement” refer to say the local standard form (in my case CAR)? I’m thinking I should use these baby forms to present the essence of the deal, and then follow it up with the multi-page CAR. Is that what you’d do?

Greg Scott


#15

Re: presenting an offer, EZ forms - Posted by Bo (GA)

Posted by Bo (GA) on October 22, 1998 at 12:38:18:

Greg:

The time I used the form, I treated the paragraph you are referring to as the date for the closing. I only attached my “Inspection of property contingency”, which allowed me to bring in an inspector and then negotiate any defects with the seller. And yes, the closing went through without a hitch.

This worked for me in Georgia, but depending on your situation and where you live, your requirements may be different.

“If this looks like legal advice, it is not intended as such - as I am not a lawyer.”

Bo