PUBLIC SERVICE ANNC- SDILeGrand is stealing money! - Posted by John Chiappetta

Real Estate Investing Real Estate Law
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Posted by HR on April 03, 2000 at 19:44:39:

I don’t blame John for being ticked off; Legrand, after all, puts on a hard-press sales pitch. This is a horrible first experience and impression to have of someone.

John, the advice you are getting is don’t let this dissuade you from looking into Legrand’s materials. I don’t blame you for being ticked off; I do think you are making a big mistake throwing the baby out with the bath water, however. Legrand’s $1000 materials are some of the best available for getting started.

HR

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PUBLIC SERVICE ANNC- SDILeGrand is stealing money! - Posted by John Chiappetta

Posted by John Chiappetta on April 03, 2000 at 12:02:28:

I’m not sure if this site sells materials by Ron LeGrand but if you see them DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO BUY. Here’s why:

Some months ago (December) I received a mailed solicitation to purchase Ron LeGrands Cash Flow Generator at the reasonable price of $49.95 plus s+h. I ordered online and the nightmare began. I received my course promptly and it sucked none to say the least. It was only a ruse with no practical information (they even say the information contained can not help you buy property in the tapes!)Anyway it was a scam to get you to upgrade to the $499 deluxe model where “all the secrets will be revealed”…yeah right.

Then as I was about to send it back, lo and behold another kit (the same one I’d received) was dropped on my door - and it was fraudulently charged again to my card.

After many attempts to get their customer service dept (no service there) I sent it all back with a nasty letter return receipt. Then informed my credit card company to get the money back. During the past 4 months I’ve spoken to 2-3 people at LeGrand Publishing who claim that my money will be refuned (still waiting 4 months later!) and it was a big mistake. Well being the trusting guy I am I put a freeze on my credit card. Well wouldn’t you know it another Cash Flow Geverator kit is dropped on my doorstep! That makes 3 for those who lost count. I caught up with the UPS guy and told him - return to sender please!

Now here we are and still no money after speaking with accounting at SDILe Grand Publishing with numerous promises to rectify the situation! My credit card company is totally useless - in fact they told me there is no statute of limitations as to when a company has to return your money - in fact they are not obligated by law to return it at all…How’s that for fun?

Bottom line LeGrand is a HUGE and I mean HUGE SCAM. Avoid them like the plague. Don’t fall for their slick ads - -you’ll be very very sorry.

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Re: Credit card problems-I’ve been there. - Posted by chris

Posted by chris on April 04, 2000 at 03:23:23:

Hi John-

Glad you got your money back. I have not ordered any of LeGrand’s materials-but if I do it will be through CREOnline to avoid SDI.

I had a false $499 charge to my VISA card last week, but the VISA policy that card issuers must follow has changed for disputing charges. A call does not do the trick anymore. The card issuer must FAX or mail you a dispute form. Until you have filled that out and signed it and returned it the charge stays on your account taking up your credit line. The issuer then contacts the merchant to hear their side of the story.

From now on I use one card for internet or phone purchases and a seperate card for day to day purchases.

-Chris

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Re: PUBLIC SERVICE ANNC- SDILeGrand is stealing money! - Posted by Len

Posted by Len on April 03, 2000 at 21:25:43:

Must be the moon affecting someone.
I bought Rons materials at the Denver convention.
There was a duplicate tape in one of the packages. I
called SDI, told them of the problem, and in 4 days had the right tape and 2 other complimentary tapes. No problem from my experience.

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I’ve Had Similar Experience with SDI - Posted by William Bronchick

Posted by William Bronchick on April 03, 2000 at 18:14:12:

I usually don’t do this, but since the topic is started, let me say that SDI Legrand Group, Inc is perhaps the most UNprofessional organization I have ever dealt with.

First, this is not a dig at Ron, who I have known since 1992. Ron’s products are good, but I am not even sure Ron even owns any part of the SDI anywmore (although he is listed with the FL Secretary of State as an officer). However, if my name were associated with a company that had these problems, I would be alarmed.

Ron spoke at our real estate conference in Denver, CO last October, which was sponsored by the Colorado Assn of Real Estate Investors. I am the President and Chairman of the Association.

Immediately following the conference, there were two returns of LeGrand’s products that were charged back by the customers amounting to $2,000 out of our Association Account (we collected the money for SDI).

Despite at least a dozen calls, faxes and threats of legal action, nothing has been done. No return calls, no action, nothing. I have personally spoken with five different people at SDI, all of which told me they would look into it. No results, no calls, no check, nothing. DISGUNTINGLY unprofessional and inexcusable. I once had a similar problem in my company and when I found out, I fired that individual and offered the product for FREE to the customer. A bad employee is one thing, but five that don’t return calls is without excuse.

My purpose of this post is two-fold: first, to get Ron’s attention (since he has no voice mail at SDI).
Second: to let people know what they are info when they try returning a product at SDI: good luck!

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PUBLIC dis-SERVICE - Posted by Alex Gurevich, TX

Posted by Alex Gurevich, TX on April 03, 2000 at 15:36:03:

John,

I understand you are unhappy about 2 things: 1)your money was not promptly returned when you requested it, and 2) you didn’t get what you expected out of the materials.

This is all very upsetting, but I don’t believe it gives you the grounds to say: 1)LeGrand is stealing money, and 2) nobody should buy his materials.

In fact you called this a “public service” announcement. I don’t believe you are providing service here, rather it’s the opposite. This forum is about sharing information and learning (through courses, seminars, newsgroups, chats, etc.) about real estate investing and other related fields.

As you were already pointed out, Legrand’s courses and his other materials are an excellent source info on money making opportunity with real estate. I personally bought in the $3,000-4,000 worth of his materials and am extremely happy with them. I did encounter on a few occasions some problems with purchase support they had, and certain accounting mistakes they made, which were eventually rectified. It’s very unfortunate, Ron hasn’t organized his staff, and his records keeping systems to do better job with that.

But to render an opinion (and even advice to others) about his materials and company based on this unfortunate incident is a bit too far.

It’s a hassle to call them, it’s gets you mad, but the delay with refund of $50 can’t ruin you financially (I hope). If small things like that make you scream in BIG LETTERS, my friend, I am not sure how you are going to handle real problems when you get into the real estate field. The more business you do, the more money you make, the bigger the problems you are going to incur. Learn to deal with them now, in lower case.

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I’ll Send You You’re 50 Bucks - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on April 03, 2000 at 14:26:20:

If it’s just the $50 you’re worried about, e mail me and I’ll send you a check.

What I’m trying to show you here John is that you are wasting valuable time and energy on getting this $50 bucks back, when you should be out there looking for and crafting real estate deals. You’re anger on this is not helping you out abit.

Well nough said, gotta get down to the courthouse to pan for more gold.

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Defamation Can Be VERY Expensive, John - Posted by Bob Richards

Posted by Bob Richards on April 03, 2000 at 14:15:56:

John,

I feel bad about the staff at SDI not getting you your refund, but they’re working on getting the bugs out of their delivery and follow-up system b/c they’re growing so fast. Why are they growing so fast? Because Ron puts out a great product, thats why! If you just bear with them and follow-up yourself, I’m sure they’ll rectify your problem soon. Its probably a computer glitch unfortunately hitting your credit card by accident. Not good for you of course, but you really shouldn’t be lashing out at him and his company like you are on such a public forum.

Some of the terms you’re using to describe him PERSONALLY and his company are pretty strong stuff: words that could easily be used against YOU in a defamation claim by Ron or SDI, his company. I’d give some SERIOUS thought about retracting some of those statements, John. I’ve seen Ron get ticked off before and let me tell you, it ain’t a pretty sight. Your words about him and his company are wrong, dead wrong. And let me tell you, lying about someone is actionable in a court of law, my friend. And those judgments handed down can carry some pretty good $ with it too.

Again, its fine to air your gripes about the SPECIFIC situation, and again, I, along with the others, feel for you. But to carry it out to the level you’ve done, is crossing the line, my friend: a line that could hurt you…ALOT

Give it some thought, John,

Bob Richards

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Re: PUBLIC SERVICE ANNC- SDILeGrand is stealing money! - Posted by Jim (TX)

Posted by Jim (TX) on April 03, 2000 at 13:48:13:

I too was sucked into Ron’s scam. I purchased one of his courses at full pric (499). It has been almost a year since I paid for the info and since then I have only done 3 deals (what a bummer). And from these 3 deals, I am only generating $450 per month in positive cash flow. Hhhhmmmmm…spent $499 and am getting $450 per month. I will have to go back and see what my payback period was.

Don’t be too hasty to judge until you put some of the info to work.
Jim

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A Scam for $49??? I Don’t Think So. - Posted by J.P. Vaughan

Posted by J.P. Vaughan on April 03, 2000 at 12:32:27:

Ron LeGrand and his compnay have been around for a long,
long time. I really don’t think they’re trying to scam
you for $49 (or for $49 x 3). There is obviously some
sort of internal problem going on.

If you call my assistant, Jeanne, at 619-441-4974, I’m
sure she will be happy to help you get your refund—
even though you did not purchase this material from us.

You see, we have done business with Ron for quite a while
and I think his home study courses are some of the BEST
in the industry. I personally know many, many people
who have started with his courses and have made a lot
of money in real estate because of him. Many of these
people are full-time professional real estate investors
today. ALL because they had Ron’s materials and applied
the information.

That’s exactly why we offer his home study courses here
in our Online Catalog. In fact, these courses are SO GOOD
that I gave ALL 3 to my sister as a gift. She is
getting ready to do her first deal RIGHT NOW, and she
thinks Ron LeGrand is GREAT.

Sorry for your problems and I hope we can help. But
neither Ron nor his company is a scam.

JP Vaughan

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Re: PUBLIC SERVICE ANNC- SDILeGrand is stealing money! - Posted by DickB-FL

Posted by DickB-FL on April 03, 2000 at 12:19:47:

John, it is unfortunate you had that experience. However, Ron and his company are not a scam. I know him personally, and have benefitted greatly from his material and his advice. If you are just starting in real estate investing, you will find that you have to solve much bigger problems than getting a $50 credit card refund - without calling the other person names. Move ahead with your education while you solve this problem.
Investing success to you!

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Re: PUBLIC SERVICE ANNC- SDILeGrand is stealing money! - Posted by CurtNY

Posted by CurtNY on April 03, 2000 at 12:14:13:

John,
I understand your frustration and anger. It’s a horrible scenario. As for the introductory package you received for $49.95, there’s an old saying “you get what you pay for” if you had looked around you would have realized this was extremely cheap for the information you thought you were getting. Don’t get me wrong I’m not defending their tactics but I’ve been to many of Ron’s seminars and purchased numerous courses. They’ve been very instumental in my investing. The course you bought was to get you interested and determine if this was for you. Many people think REI is a get rich quick skeem. Its not, how would you have felt if you paid for the entire course and found out it’s not for you. The problem with the recharging is horrible and you should take action but as far as the courses go they’re well worth the money in my opinion. Good Luck with all your RE Investments

CurtNY

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Re: I’ve Had Similar Experience with SDI - Posted by Matthew Chan

Posted by Matthew Chan on April 03, 2000 at 21:32:52:

Bill,

You are not alone. I wasn’t going to say anything but since some people have come out with it, I may as well state the facts.

I attended the Legrand convention in January which I paid for last year at Creonline 99. It was a great convention and, of course, they had a few things for sale! :slight_smile:

While Ron Legrand’s courses are good and I have learned a lot from him, SDI’s operation is fairly incompetent. They are very quick at charging your credit cards but VERY slow in delivery and require LOTS of followup. I’ve had to have very specific conversations with certain individuals.

It looks like I will be contesting a credit card charge for their upgraded CDs which does not even exist and probably won’t be for another 2 months making it a total of about 5 months of keeping my money. I don’t appreciate some using my money interest free without asking.

The stuff I did get was just fine but jeez, is it unreasonable to deliver products within 2 weeks after charging it? I think not.

I don’t regret most of my purchases from most vendors but my guard is up from now on where SDI is concerned.

Let the buyer beware in dealing with SDI. They seem too successful for their own good and simply have a very inept operations team.

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Re: I’ve Had Similar Experience with SDI - Posted by Bassman

Posted by Bassman on April 03, 2000 at 21:05:07:

Hi Bill,
I was at Ron’s MOS camp this weekend. He spoke highly of you as a teacher of their Business management camp ( I think ) , the asset protection one? As all should probably be pointed out now, Ron no longer has an office at SDI, as he is only a shareholder/ officer of SDI and not in charge of the everyday running of the offices. He is in charge of the Marketing , and teaches some of the camps, but , for the most part , he is back full time running his own home buying operation. He has some say, but not the type of control he used to exert, as he sold the company last year I believe.
I hope things work out for you getting thngs straight with SDI , but keep in mind, Ron doesnt even have an office in SDI building.
Take care , and hope to see you at one of the classes you’ll be teaching for Ron in the future.
Scott Cooper

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For the record - Posted by Jeanne

Posted by Jeanne on April 03, 2000 at 19:20:25:

If anyone orders Ron LeGrand materials from CRE Online, I handle the processing of all the orders, returns, errors or problems, if they arise. Our customers do not have to contact SDI for a refund.

Jeanne Roach
CRE Online

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Re: PUBLIC dis-SERVICE - Posted by Sandy Manuel

Posted by Sandy Manuel on April 03, 2000 at 15:57:00:

Muchas gracias, and well said, Alex. Let our intellect and not our anger, rule.

:slight_smile: SandyFL

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Re: Defamation Can Be VERY Expensive, John - Posted by Harold

Posted by Harold on April 04, 2000 at 24:23:07:

There are few things more sickening than a public brown-nosing (even if it’s Ron LeGrande you’re brown-nosing).

Case of defamation? Get serious, grow up and check out the first ammendment one of these days.

People who suggest and make such “legal” threats are always the least informed on real legal matters, as is evident by this ridiculous (yet funny) post.

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Re: Defamation Can Be VERY Expensive, John - Posted by Doug Pretorius

Posted by Doug Pretorius on April 03, 2000 at 17:51:55:

I doubt you’d be quite so anti-defamation if this had happened to you. Besides, I haven’t read anything here at John has said that would lead a legitimate businessman to do anything but apologize.

If Ron were to lay John with a defamation suit over this post, wouldn’t that just prove John’s point?

Since there’s a good chance Ron has either read this post or heard about it, I’d expect him to call John personally to apologize and get his money back to him immediately (assuming John has returned the material.)

Nevertheless, as they say the squeaky wheel gets the grease. How many more ‘glitches’ would Mr. LeGrand and/or his company experience if people like John were not allowed to publicly voice their bad experiences?

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Re: Defamation Can Be VERY Expensive, John - Posted by John Chiappetta

Posted by John Chiappetta on April 03, 2000 at 14:44:58:

Threats are not only bad but worse that stating gripes. I have tried in very good faith to remedy this situation and all has failed.

I don’t know if you speak for him or not. But this is a public forum of free speech.I have merely put up a situation for all to observe. No one need act on it or believe it for that fact.

Anyone reading this should see the threats you have put on me and take it for what it is. Any advocate of free speech knows that you have to take the good with the bad. I will glady retract every word when I see some sort of honest action that I have as yet not seen from the LeGrand group.

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How about freedom of speech. BTW the defense for defamation is the truth. Let LeScam try and litigate - Posted by Don

Posted by Don on April 03, 2000 at 14:34:28:

How about freedom of speech. BTW the defense for defamation is the truth. Let LeScam try and litigate