Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Vince

Posted by Rob FL on September 16, 2004 at 21:04:56:

If someone is trying to sell property owned by a 3rd party seller, prior to even having an equitable interest in the seller’s property, they are probably brokering without a license.

What do you call a person who shows a buyer 20 houses that are owned by 3rd party sellers? I call them a real estate broker. After the showing takes place, this middleman may step in and become a principal to the transaction, but that doesn’t change their role on the other 19 houses.

Now if you already have a house under contract or option and ONLY THEN start soliciting for buyers, then you have an equitable interest in the property and don’t need a license to market the property.

Odds are you won’t get caught by anybody, but I would sure hate to know I might be committing a felony.

Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Vince

Posted by Vince on September 14, 2004 at 14:56:28:

I took out an ad in the local paper (Houses, Rent/Buy section of classifieds), released today, in print (to run for a week). This was my first ad (first deal), and I’m unsure of what to expect in terms of consumer response. I’m confident in the verbiage, and patterned it after the instruction of guru Ron LeGrand. The area is great, home is typical, and rent-to-own payments are VERY competitive for the area. The ad is as follows: " R-T-O New carpet, paint, appl, 3Br/ 2Ba 2-c gar $995. "

Thus far, I’ve yet to receive a phone call, and don’t know if I should be expecting calls during the day on a Tuesday, or whether it’s more typical for folks to start calling after normal work hours.

In other words, I’m a bit nervous as to the potential ineffectiveness of the ad, given my lack of experience in such matters. Should I be worried, or should I expect to leave the ad running for X days/weeks before realizing results?

Much obliged!

Vince

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by DP (ON)

Posted by DP (ON) on September 14, 2004 at 22:32:56:

As Russ mentioned, put up signs. With my current RTO I put an ad in the for rent and for sale sections of the Pennysaver, which has generated many calls for me in the past (10-30 per edition). This time I received less than 10 calls in 2 weeks.

However, I also put up 6 directional signs (3 of which were taken down within 24 hours). These have pulled in nearly 60 calls over the same 2 week period.

Guess where I’m going to be spending my marketing dollars in the future? :wink:

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Vince

Posted by Vince on September 14, 2004 at 20:31:32:

All,

Thanks for the response, and duly noted. The paper misrepresented my dictation by abbreviating Rent to Own, and it wasn’t until tonight that I called to have them update the ad. Your quick-response posts confirmed my fears, and prompted my call to the newspaper. I really appreciate the magnanimity of participants on this site!

Much obliged!

Vince

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on September 14, 2004 at 20:21:26:

Like some of the others mentioned. RTO means nothing to most people. If I saw those initials in the paper even as a seasoned investor, I would wonder what they meant. Since Rent-to-Own is the most important part of the whole ad, you should really spell it out.

I get the best response by running ads over the weekend. More people get newspapers on Sunday than on any other day.

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Dick Chelten

Posted by Dick Chelten on September 14, 2004 at 18:42:42:

We operate differently than many investors here and don’t normally hold inventory-we only buy a home when we find a Tenant Buyer who qualifies for our RTO program- ie 5% down, good income and our credit repair people tell us they can get them financed within 24 mohts. Then we buy.

However, in addition to radio spots( and I love the results I’m getting now), we place ads in sundays classifieds and are getting good success from “For Sale-No Bank Qualifying!” This way, we also get buyers who wouldn’t ever think of renting to own-some people have a bad taste with that term. However, they would be happy to buy the hme if you were to sell on a land contract or contract for deed. You can always design your RTO contract to mirror the principal paydown effect of a mortgage by giving rent credits and tax beneifts by lowering rents, but we do neither. Instead, we buy, or an Investor buys for us, whatever home they want, and we charge almost 1% monthly X List price as mnthly rent, and charge 10-13% over List price as their option price within 24 months.

My suggestion to those who want to do real estate by finding the house first, then searching for a qualified buyer…buy the house REALLY LOW! Then, you can put up with all the marketing and managing and re-leasing I’ve found to be the case when I do biz the “old” way.

Sorry for the rant, but if you are part time in this business, you need to hit for singles, lots of them and forget about swingin for the fences for home runs. I’d rather pass on 5 good deals than buy one bad deal. Ask me how I know.

Good luck,

Dick Chelten

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by kwack41

Posted by kwack41 on September 14, 2004 at 17:34:49:

Call the paper back and get them to change the R-T-O to “rent to own”. No one, except maybe investors, is going to know what that means.

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Tom

Posted by Tom on September 14, 2004 at 16:55:32:

I ran a similar ad this past week in my local paper. It began last Friday and runs for 7 days. I was feeling a bit down Friday and Saturday after no calls, but then I got 2 calls on Sunday, 2 calls on Monday and 1 call today. Out of those, I have 2 that sound someone interested - we’ll see where it goes from here. My advice is be patient and wait for the weekend.

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Russ Sims

Posted by Russ Sims on September 14, 2004 at 16:39:17:

You will get the highest response to your ads on a weekend, especially Sunday. So don’t write off your ad until a weekend comes and goes without you receiveing many calls.

I have the utmost respect for LeGrand’s ads, having used some of them myself. But don’t rely on ads by themselves… it’s truly amazing how many homes we have sold just by keeping signs out (I’d say 60% of our homes sold due to signs). Obviously put a sign in the yard, but also put at least 6 directional signs in the area, leading folks to your property. Those directional signs should specifically say “rent to own”, with the address and maybe even your phone number.
Good luck!

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by rdlazo

Posted by rdlazo on September 14, 2004 at 16:36:23:

Of all the message, you should not abreviate Rent To Own into RTO. This is the most important line on your ad. Sorry if you did not. It seems you did.
rdla

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on September 15, 2004 at 12:58:46:

If you have the buyers first, and then go out to find a house for them to LO from you, you are questionably acting as an unlicensed real estate agent. The reason being is that you are not acting as a principal in the transaction until you find a house they like which may be well after you have first started dealing with this buyer. In Florida and in many states, unlicensed activity is a felony. Be careful here, it is one thing to cross civil boundaries and quite another to cross criminal boundaries.

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Mark

Posted by Mark on September 15, 2004 at 10:31:27:

Dick,
You say that you only buy a house after you have found a tenant buyer that you prequalify. How do you then find a property for them - MLS, Creative RE, etc? And when you do find one how do you finance it - traditional 80% LTV mortgage with 20% down or something more creative?

Thanks for your info.

-Mark

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Vince

Posted by Vince on September 14, 2004 at 20:32:42:

All,

Thanks for the response, and duly noted. The paper misrepresented my dictation by abbreviating Rent to Own, and it wasn’t until tonight that I called to have them update the ad. Your quick-response posts confirmed my fears, and prompted my call to the newspaper. I really appreciate the magnanimity of participants on this site!

Much obliged!

Vince

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Dick Chelten

Posted by Dick Chelten on September 15, 2004 at 19:08:52:

I am a licensed real estate agent and strongly recommend everyone do likewise. I earn my 3% buyer’s side commission and am able to view every potential home my clients want me to purchase on their behalf.

As an observation, and as a small chiding aimed in your direction, you obviously know that the solution to your warning would be to suggest to this post neighborhood that, “in order to avoid this problem, be sure you get licensed”. This site should be for providing solutions for all investors, not simply a place for fear mongers. Just my opinion.

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Dick Chelten

Posted by Dick Chelten on September 15, 2004 at 19:15:39:

As I mentioned in my posting above, I am a licensed real estate agent. I shop the homes for our potential clients and once they have found “the home of their dreams”, we buy conventially and then sell on terms-our terms being Rent To Own. Other Investors, like DP-Ontario, do something similar and buy conventionally and sell on a land contract or contract for deed. The point is, we don’t sit on inventory and never have to push anyone into any home other than their dream choice.
Currently, we are using Greenpoint Mortgage, who provides us an 80% 1st mortgage and 10% 2nd mortgage for what is a blended rate of about 4.5%. No PMI and no escrowing for taxes required. Since we rent out the home for about 1% of the home’s list price, we make pretty good cash flow.

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on September 16, 2004 at 09:07:36:

If you are licensed, that is a different story altogether. Sounds like you’ve got your act together.

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Bob Martin

Posted by Bob Martin on September 15, 2004 at 22:23:20:

Dick,

So if I do some quick math here…

You have a buyer that has found a house listed with an agent. Let’s say the house is purchased for $200k. So at 80%, you’d get a first loan for 160K, and at 10% you’d get a second for 20k. You’d have to come up with $20K out of pocket. The payment at 4.5% PI would be $912, and if you’re getting 1%, or $2k per month payment, then your cash flow in this example is almost $1100 monthly. Then in two years you sell the home for $220k, making $20k on the back end.

Is this about right?

What do you get for a downpayment? And it seems that $20k you put out on the front is covered when you sell, so that $20k is just getting you the cash flow? How high price do you go? Will people pay $4k per month for a $400k home?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Bob

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by DeeDee

Posted by DeeDee on September 16, 2004 at 18:49:53:

Even if you are not a RE Agent, finding buyers prior to getting the property is not illegal. It is only illegal if you are brokering a deal for someone else, received a commission and don’t have a license. If he’s buying the home himself and leasing it out, he is not brokering anyone else’s deal but his own. That’s perfectly legal.

Re: Q: Advertising to tenant/buyers? - Posted by Dick Chelten

Posted by Dick Chelten on September 16, 2004 at 16:47:23:

Let’s review your math:

I use interest only loans so at 4.5%, my interest payment is $675. To that, I need to add for taxes and insurance. Because I don’t occupy the property, here in Michigan, my taxes are higher. On a $200,000 home, I reserve $450 monthly for taxes and $75 monthly for insurance. Total payment of $1200. Rent is actually less than you quoted, $1920, thus a monthly cash flow of $720 or $8,640 annually.

If I have used my own $20,000 as a down payment, $8,640 is 43% ROI! Pretty good return, even if I had to borrow from an Investor or bank for my down payment, right?

So, I get the cash flow each of two years, plus the “back end profit” which is always a 15% markup on the origianl purchase price. Remember, my model is to buy home 5% under list and sell for 10% over list-15% spread. In this case, we make $30,000 on the spread. Remember, however, that we are already holding $10,000 of our $30K profit in the form of a non refundable option fee.

So, totalling up the whole deal, we make $6,000 in real estate commissions, $8,640 cash flow year 1, $8,640 cash flow yerar 2, and $30,000 profit spread or a grand total of $53,280. Not bad for not buying the house first and speculating, is it?

Now, I know, there are investors out there who will warn against values going down and how we will lose big time. My response is that I buy good homes in great neighborhoods and that my tenant buyers want to own these homes-they aren’t there simply because it was a cheap rental-it was very expensive! They put down $10,000 or more in non refundable option money! Who else here on CREonline gets a predictable 5% as option money? Very few, I’ll bet money on it. My clients are really working towards home ownership, including paying to become involved with our credit repair program I arrange with a third party company. By the way, my credit repair company makes a commission from the eventual mortgage company that places the loan for the buyer when they get them credit approved so the credit repair company is anxious to make this work. At the same time the mortgage rep is anxious to make his commission upon placing the loan so he works hard to get my client financed, and , of course, the buyer wants to get financed asap, too. So, everybody is working to assure us of a successful rent to own program. I recommend it to others.

Oh, finally, regarding what a buyer would pay for a 400k home, I suggest you add 10% on the original home price, then figure what a 30yr 7.5% PITI would be and use that as your RTO rent payment. You can justify it by reminding your buyer that the rent figure is equivilent to what they will be paying in 24 mnths when they refinance in their own name. You’ll do very well. Your area may have a different property tax base requiring you to tweak to get your rent figure, but stick with this method. You won’t go wrong.

Dick Chelten