Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by DeDe

Re: Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on July 08, 2002 at 21:58:19:

De DE–(MO)--------------

I’m about halfway convinced that you should go to their meetings in the future. Have you heard the old saying that if you fall off of a horse, you have to get right up on it again? Now, there are certain to be lots of things that you can learn from these experienced investors, although it sounds like structuring a deal is not one of them.

You should be able to eventually get advice about suppliers, vendors, people who provide services that you will need, such as title companies, attorneys, loan brokers and such like. You may be able to get some information about what parts of the area are hot and which not. Where people are eager to move into and buy.

You probably also ran into some male macho posturing. And, in a group, a herd mentality can take over. One or two people set a tone and the others just gang in on it. I suspect at least a couple of those investors will be helpful to you when you can talk to them alone.

I’d suggest going back, tell them you appreciate their warning you about doing illegal deals and tell them you hope to learn from them. [bat eyelashes at this point] Try to get names and phone numbers. Don’t take your courses with you. Don’t try to educate them until later on, and only then a little bit with those who are not hopelessly stuck. You probably will find a couple to whom you could flip wholesale deals since they can fix for rentals or to resale.

I am not a big fan of “mentoring.” I believe in “self-mentoring.” Do it yourself. You can learn from written materials and tapes. You can learn from reading online. You can learn from asking questions online. There is no need for a single “mentor.” You can learn from a lot of different people. My model is that you have to put together an investment program that is taylored to your unique personality, skills, and interests. That means you may well have to borrow ideas from a lot of different people. It may be impossible to find somebody who is doing real estate investing the way you will want to do it. Hence “self-mentoring.” If you have not done so, I recommend reading my post for beginners. It can be found by putting “beginners success” into the archive search function on either this main bulletinboard of CREONLINE.COM or on the board2 – Carleton Sheets forum.

Just ask yourself. “What do I need to succeed?” Then find it, whereever it might be.

Didn’t you say you had read posts on CREONLINE.COM for 13 months? Then you have read that there are a lot of difficulties in real estate investing, even for the experienced investors. There is constant problem-solving, overcoming obstacles, figuring out how to get what you want. This does not change. It becomes somewhat easier when you have developed or borrowed a bag of tools to make things happen the way you want them to happen. But it is always a challenge. That’s what keeps it interesting.

I’m not saying you have to go to these fellows meetings again. But I suggest that is probably the better course for you. You have a while to heal and prepare.

Good InvestingRon Starr*

Re: Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by Gerald-DC

Posted by Gerald-DC on July 08, 2002 at 21:10:59:

They mocked you and taunted you. These are not the acts of people I want to be around or take advice from.

Some people are so ignorant that if they don’t understand something or if they encounter something different than what they are use to, they hide their ignorance by being condescending and downright rude.

Based upon your comments, these so-called “seasoned investors” in St. Louis were extremely rude, arrogant, misleading and just simply jerks. Again, why would you value their opinions? They sound like all they do is buy and hold (landlords).

If I were you, I would find another investment club with the quickness unless you want to be just a landlord like them.(hopefully you want be as ignorant as them).

who cares what they think? - Posted by Anne_ND

Posted by Anne_ND on July 08, 2002 at 20:31:03:

DeDe:

So a bunch of people told you this is malarky? So what? Maybe they don’t know anything about CREI; maybe they don’t want the competition.

In the future, I suggest that you go to these kinds of meetings with an eye toward learning something from them, rather than imparting what you know, or hope to know.

It is not news that ‘real estate investors’ who have been doing it the conventional way for 20 years would find CREI threatening or even ‘illegal’. When I was first looking into buying subject to (something I usually do not do), I went to a local attorney, who also happens to be a judge. I explained what I wanted to do and he about had a fit. He leaned over his desk, shook his finger in my face and told me “you are not a real estate investor, you are a real estate SPECULATOR!” Like this is news to me? Like I’m supposed to care? He’d never even heard of the Garn-St. Germaine Act. I just kept interviewing attorneys until I found one who would do what I wanted. Not that he’s perfect either, but that’s another story…

You have some good educational materials. Now you also need to get some materials on the proper mindset. I suggest “The 7 Habits…”, “Millionaire Next Door”, “The Power of Focus” and other books you will find if you search the archives.

If you have decided this is the way to succeed for your family, then you will achieve it. Surround yourself with positive people.

Good luck,
Anne

Re: Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on July 08, 2002 at 20:29:59:

Keep in mind that these so called old timer real estate investors don’t want you as their competition. Another new investor will cut into their deals, they think. So they ridicule you and your creative methods.

Stay away from them. This creative stuff works and has worked for me for 25 years. I actually wished I learned many of these great techniques years ago instead of doing it the old less profitable way.

Of course it’s not illegal to buy a property wholesale and sell retail. WalMart does it. Grocery stores do it. Hardware stores do it and so forth. The word flipping has gotten a bad name. Not because it’s illegal, but the way it can be manipulated with inflated appraisals etc. makes it illegal. Stay away from dishonest dealings and flipping is just buying wholesale and selling retail.

Buying subject to is not illegal. There is a deed and a mortgage. There is probably a due on sale clause in that mortgage that says, the bank has the right to call in the loan if there is a transfer of title other than what is allowed with the Garn St Germain Law. And that’s all the bank has, the right. There is no prosecution from the bank and there is no due on sale jail. So buying subject to is not illegal.

So stop listening to the nay sayers and start using these legal creative techniques to carve out your financial future.

Re: Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by Tim Fierro (Tacoma, WA)

Posted by Tim Fierro (Tacoma, WA) on July 08, 2002 at 20:25:24:

DeDe, did you use this link;

http://www.creonline.com/clubs/clubs-mo.htm

and check out any of these clubs? By being listed here on a creative web site, the clubs listed should be open to that creativity. The local ad may have been from the traditional investor route. The ones who put 20% down and are comfortable in that zone.

You shouldn’t give up because of what others think, and in this business, you need to get a thicker skin. Negativity and rejections are everywhere, but you still proceed forward.

BTW, real estate investing is not your only hope. If you truly believed that and did give up; where would you be? There are many occupations and businesses in this world for which to make a living, real estate is only one of them. You make it sound as if your family will struggle for eternity if this doesn’t work.

Re: Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by K.E.

Posted by K.E. on July 08, 2002 at 20:24:03:

Are you sure these were “INVESTORS” you were meeting with.Im curious to know what kinds of techniques they were meeting about ? Please tell us.

Re: Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by Eva

Posted by Eva on July 08, 2002 at 20:14:42:

Hi, just read your post and I have had a bad day too but in a different way. It never ceases to amaze me how some folks can be so negative but it seems to primarily come from those who have something to lose. I recall going through this very same thing. R.E. lady looked at me like I was crazy when I asked her how long the house had been on the market. Anyway please do not give up. Rather, align yourself with folks who understand what you’re trying to do. Get a mentor. I myself have found a great person and he lives thousands of miles from me. We are doing everything by email. Real Estate agents are different from Real Estate investors. They are after a commission for which they have to sweat mightily. You are after gold for which you will study long and pounce fast. Hope this helps.

Re: who cares what they think? - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on July 09, 2002 at 11:57:43:

Anne: I wonder if “not caring what anyone else thinks” isn’t the whole story when it comes to success in this business–in any business or field, actually. And by success I mean success by our own definition.

My RE attorney also wagged his finger at me and raised his voice and let me know that I am in no position to make offers to buy properties when the values are greater than my net worth. What a joke. My net worth is a negative number. I’m sure 90% of everyone applying for a conventional loan has a negative net worth. I think living in Santa Barbara has messed with his ability to think straight about debt ratios and income.

But if I start to care about what he thinks and what my friends think because I turned down what they see as a good paying job (that would save me from the “trials of running a business”) and what the irrate seller who was offended by my offer yesterday thinks and the concrete contractor who laughed and said he would never work in that town again thinks, I’d be nowhere (with an increasing negative net worth).

It seems that confidence is not in the business experience or in the training, but in one’s core self-worth. In my case, it came with age and fatigue from trying to fit in or make other people like me. But four decades was a long time to spend trying to sort out what everyone thinks of me or my ideas only to realize it doesn’t matter.

Thanks for your thoughts. Sincerely, Kristine

Re: who cares what they think? - Posted by DeDe

Posted by DeDe on July 08, 2002 at 20:43:27:

I do have good books on psychology and the “proper mind” set. It’s just this experience real caught me off guard because they were so negative and downright “ugly” about it. I figure if these guys been in the REI business for years…then they know what their talking about and know the area way better than I do. I’m a newbie who only bought two courses and have visited this forum for the last 15 months and reading and printing out every post I felt was educational. How do I surround myself around “positive people” when there are none to be found where I am!! Everyone is negative and work a 9 to 5 job with no other goals to get out of the rut! Where do I find positive people and other real estate investors? Where do I find a mentor? Should I put an ad in the newspaper or what?

The techniques they were talking - Posted by DeDe

Posted by DeDe on July 08, 2002 at 20:34:03:

about was buying foreclosures cheap and turn around and rent them out for a nice cash flow. Buying fixer uppers, rehab and turn around and sale retail. And yes, these were legitimate real estate investors!!!

Re: Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by DeDe

Posted by DeDe on July 08, 2002 at 20:25:28:

My whole purpose for going to the meeting was to find a mentor someone who could help me along the way or we help each other. I was more than willing to share my course, but everyone simply laughed at me. I was the only “minority” there, the rest were men…for a total of 11. I do not know what I’m going to do now! Most of these guys are landlords. They plainly told me that “flipping and sub2” is illegal and I better start reading the newspaper and staying on top of things…talk to me as if I were a little kid. I do not know what I’m going to do now. I’m glad I have this board for moral support, but I really wanted a mentor to work with me in the area so I could learn the ropes a whole lot faster! I left that club with my tail between my legs! I’m seriously thinking about giving up now and I haven’t even made my first offer or receive my first motivated seller call…Also in the crowd was 1 real estate agent and 1 mortgage broker. I really let this group get next to me, and now I’m trying to come up with a plan B to make it financially for my family.

Re: who cares what they think? - Posted by kelly

Posted by kelly on July 08, 2002 at 23:15:30:

DeDe,
I found your post interesting because I live in St. Louis and own one rental – a SFH. I have been thinking about both joining the local association as well as investing in flippers, too!

I hope that your experiences get better … I’ll let you know if I decide to join or not.

the answer is within you - Posted by Anne_ND

Posted by Anne_ND on July 08, 2002 at 20:55:15:

DeDe,

You may have books on psychology, but you haven’t absorbed the “proper mindset”. Have some faith in your self. That means develop a thick skin.

You’ve gotten some good advice from other posters, go to a different investment group or call ‘we buy houses’ ads and chat with the person who answers the phone.

Find someone who loves what they do and become their friend- even if it’s not real estate. Happy productive people are the ones you want to meet.

I applaud your desire to change your life. It ain’t easy, and people will be mean to you. But part of this is taking charge of what happens to you- being responsible for your own happiness.

Again, I suggest you read The 7 Habits of Highly Successful People.

good luck,
Anne

Sounds like you just found… - Posted by Scot - SoCal

Posted by Scot - SoCal on July 09, 2002 at 09:14:34:

your buyers in whom to flip to. If you find a great rehab at a wholesale price, call each of these investors and tell them of the great deal you found. They don’t need to know all the details on how you found the deal or the likes. Just the price and cost to fix up. If they are legit, they come up with the cash for the deal.

Hang in the DeDe. You’ll make it if you keep at it.

Re: The techniques they were talking - Posted by K.E.

Posted by K.E. on July 08, 2002 at 20:48:05:

Im confused…isnt buying fixer uppers , rehabbing them and turning right around and selling them called flipping… the same thing that they said was illegal ?

Re: The techniques they were talking - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on July 08, 2002 at 20:45:13:

So they aren’t really real estate investors at all. They are rehabbers and landlords. A real estate investor also could do rehabs and nothing wrong with being a landlord. Lord I know I’m one, but there are far easier ways to make money with your creative mind putting deals together with a lease option, subject to, owner financing, wholesaling and on and on instead of pounding nails.

Re: Real Estate Investors Cry SCAM,SCAM! - Posted by Economou

Posted by Economou on July 09, 2002 at 13:22:04:

  1. Desire to be a real estate investor.
  2. Have faith to be a real estate investor.
  3. Gain the knowledge to be a real estate investor.
  4. Persist to be a real estate investor.
  5. Take your first STEP to be a real estate investor.

Without the first STEP you can’t take the next STEP.

Turn the mocking and ridicule around… - Posted by Tim (CT)

Posted by Tim (CT) on July 09, 2002 at 07:51:03:

and use it to your advantage. I, too, have thought about giving up. But, everytime I do that, something comes around the corner to lift me up and tell me ‘this stuff works’. It may work a little different for me and in my area. But, in general, this stuff works. So, when people like this tell you that you’re wasting your time, just shake your head politely and say ‘ya, you might be right’. Then go out and acquire a ton of property creatively, go back to their meeting and politely stick it in their face. Tell them if they want to continue to put down 20% on every property they acquire to go ahead and waste their money. It’s not coming out of your wallet. I would guarrantee there’s at least 1 person in that group that will call you shortly after and say ‘so, tell me again how you got that property by taking over someones payments? And, they paid you to do it?!?!?!?’

Don’t give up!! Remember, even an inch of ground gained is still a gain. After several inches, you’ll look back and see yourself a whole foot ahead of where you started. Keep plugging along.