Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Redline on April 08, 1999 at 13:15:55:

Well, hey … If you walked into my office and wanted to list and you explained your situation, I’d be smart enough to know what you were talking about and I’d ask for a copy of the agreement that’s giving you this ‘equitable interest’. I’d also probably want to check with the seller.

But agreed, not all realtors would have a clue.

RL

Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on April 07, 1999 at 18:22:28:

WAIT!! Don’t shoot!
It got your attention didn’t it!
Not all RE agents are dumb, just a select few, some are down right GREAT people, and I love em. :slight_smile:
But, I keep finding the bad ones in my area along with the good ones.
I have several now that send me info and I am grateful.
But, we decided to try to get as many working for us as possible. So, we spent a little while on the telephone speaking with several and giving them our buying criteria.
One in particular seemed to be knowledgable about our market area, and claimed to have several homes that “fit the bill”.
He said he’d look them up for further details and call me today.
Today he calls and says, "I have that list for you, when can you stop down and get pre-qualified?"
WHAT???
I asked “prequalified for what?”, and he said “to make offers and write contracts.” (my pen works, I think I’m qualified!)
WAIT!!!
"so, your tellin me (Mr. BIG SHOT ($25k/yr)) RE agent, that IF I do NOT pre-qualify with you, you will not submit my offers?"
and he said, “YES!!”

What an idiot!
So, I politely said, “well sir, I really don’t think we can work together, and have a nice day.”
"Oh and by the way, you do know it is AGAINST the LAW to refuse to present an offer?"
He actually said, "I don’t know who told you that, but it is not true, I am here to protect my clients, and I HAVE TO make sure each offer presented is qualified!"
He then told me he’d been an agent for 24 years and knew his own business.

I cannot wait to OUTBID one of his “qulaified clients” and/or buy a home he has listed!

On to the next agent…

I was just so FREAKED that I had to share this one.

And to all you agents out there who are straight, and beleive in doing right by people and not attempting to snow them with false statements, THANK YOU!!

Have a nice day! Õ¿Õ
Jim

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by Dan in Dallas

Posted by Dan in Dallas on April 08, 1999 at 23:19:11:

I have this silly little rule. When I am the one paying the money I make the rules. If they don’t like it, they can buy the house themselves. When you are not bashful about informing those you deal with about this rule, you would be suprised how many come around to your way of thinking…especially if they are motivated sellers.

Dan

Making sure a prospect can perform is not dumb. - Posted by Andrew Smith (Phila)

Posted by Andrew Smith (Phila) on April 08, 1999 at 07:28:01:

Here in PA agents have buyers complete a buyers financial info form to be submitted with any offer. The buyer must list income, assets and liabilities. There is also a clause in the form that states that the buyer agrees to forfit the deposit if they do not obtain a mortgage and it can be demonstrated that they materially misreprepresented their finaces on the buyers financial form. I am surprised that all agents in all states don’t do this. It only makes sense that the agents would want to be able to help their seller make an informed decision about the ability of the buyer to perform before having the seller take the property off the market for 2 or 3 months while the buyer is getting a mortgage lined up. I’m not saying that there are not a tremendous number of stupid agents out there - but qualifying a potential buyers ability to perform is part of what a good agent should do.

UPDATE - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on April 07, 1999 at 22:50:43:

Well, thankfully, some agents will “take a chance” on me.
I talked to another agent today, and she agreed to send me some listings. 30 minutes later, my fax rang out, and a list of 25 came thru.
Tonight, after looking over the list, I called her back, and we are going to get together tommorrow and make some offers.
The funny thing here was that apparently this agent said she had recently talked to a friend who is also an agent, but at another Brokerage, and that her friend told her she recently started to work with a “young aggressive Investor” and that they had been making 10-15 offers per week. The friend also relayed that she had not had this much “fun” in a long time.
When I talked to this new agent tonight, she passed this story along, and I asked her “who” the other agent was. She was reluctant at first, but after talking for a few minutes she gave me the name.
GUESS what!
I’m the “young aggressive investor”, because the agent she told me about is the main one I deal with.
This new agent has even agreed to download to her computer a list of recently and about to be expired listings, and will give me a copy. She apparently does this weekly and she claims to get maybe one a month to “re-list”, so she admitted that my approach can only help her improve her income. (I’ll have to make sure my letter says, “Not a Realtor or associated with any Real Estate Agency”)
I have already agreed to pay her a referal fee (we tentatively agreed to $100/deal I close…CHEAP, I think!)
, IF I can close any deals found on her provided list.
So, I’m off to type a letter to these “Sellers” and see what comes.
It is amazing, for every one “not so good agent”, there are at least 10 that are good to work with.
We don’t have any new deals closed “yet”, but with SEVERAL agents helping, we will surely close some soon.

Thanks for all your input, and for allowing me to VENT.
Happy investing to you all,
Jim IL

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on April 07, 1999 at 21:25:43:

Jim:

Agents ARE required to submit all offers. However they aren’t required to deal with any particular individual ie those that aren’t prequalified.

So here’s what that means. If you made an offer he’s required to present it. However he’s not required to recommend it. AND he’s not required to work with you either.

Is this good judgment on the agent’s behalf? If I were him I wouldn’t be interested in working with people who I wasn’t sure could perform on their contracts…meaning they were pre-approved, or could illustrate in a substantial way that they could perform. Otherwise, as an agent you COULD be wasting alot of time with unqualified buyers.

JPiper

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by Joe Kaise

Posted by Joe Kaise on April 07, 1999 at 21:14:59:

Jim, I just don’t get it. Frankly, I don’t think he’s being an idiot at all. The agent, I presume, represents the sellers interest and as such has an obligation to confirm as much as possible, and I suppose that includes checking you out. Certainly, the agent is not obligated to work with you or present your offers on someone else’s listings.

I recently accepted an offer where the other agent convinced me that her client was preapproved and well qualified. They weren’t and they wasted 100 plus days of my time and money and never did close. You bet I wish my agent had checked them out for himself prior to us turning down other offers that would have closed as promised.

Additionally, what makes you think agents are required to present all offers? I often give my agent my selling parameters and if an offer comes in that doesn’t fit, I don’t want to see it (and I don’t).

I respect agents who do in fact believe they are hired by the seller and are there to work on the seller’s behalf. Agents who convince uneducated sellers to accept crazy offers from shakey investors make me ill.

I made a friend a couple years ago with a women I met through a letter I’d sent. She’s in her 60’s, widowed, and had a $50k house free and clear. Her agent recommended she accept an offer from an investor who’s offer included her subordinating her interest to a new loan, and when the dust settled after the investor and the agent got paid (and after the investor subsequently lost the property in foreclosure), my new friend walked away with literally nothing. Zip . . . on a property she and her husband worked thirty years to pay off.

An idiot? Hardly.

Joe

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb? I understand. - Posted by Tim Jensen

Posted by Tim Jensen on April 07, 1999 at 21:01:02:

Jim,

I understand the realtor’s point of view. If I was a realtor, I would not deal with anyone until I got them pre-qualified. I would hate to spend time with people, find them a house only to discover that they could not get a mortage.

When I sold my personal residence, I used a realtor that only dealt with pre-approved clients. I didn’t want him to waste my time.

I understand your point as an investor. That is one reason I do not usually deal with a realtor when buying places. Sure I may miss a deal here and there, but it is just how I do things and it works fine for me.

Hang in There,

Tim Jensen (IL)

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on April 07, 1999 at 20:00:26:

Yup JIm,

They are dumb. That is most of them. You might want to have some fun with them. The realtor who wants to protect his client, why not make some low ball offers to them. Then we will see if he presents all of the offers.

Sounds like you could have some fun here.

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on April 07, 1999 at 19:46:17:

Being in a big seller’s market over the past 3 years, I have come across many agents who have been instructed by their clients (or possibly the agent coereced the seller) to not accept any offer that is contingent on financing unless you can show you are prequalified.

Luckily, I hardly ever deal with those properties anyway. They aren’t motivated sellers. Motivated sellers don’t make much a fuss about the financing issue.

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by leslie dear

Posted by leslie dear on April 07, 1999 at 18:42:02:

Glad to see you are trying to use agents, it can be very trying. Use all avenues. Do you use Multiple Offer Stratagies?

your info isn’t accurate-agent lying to you? - Posted by Matt B

Posted by Matt B on April 08, 1999 at 13:31:53:

I have made a number of offers through an agent. None of them required me to disclose my whole life to the seller. I live near Pittsburgh, PA. All I had to do was fill out the purchase agreement and write a check for $500 earnest money. I think that the agent that you’re dealing with doesn’t trust you or is more interested in making you jump through hoops. Pennsylvania has no such requirement for making offers. (I have been studying my fiance’s material since she is going for her license.)

Re: Making sure a prospect can perform is not dumb. - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on April 08, 1999 at 13:04:34:

Andrew,
There are several reasons I have for not wanting to disclose my financial abilties and resources. (and I’ll admit, personally they are lacking.)
The main reason though is that I intend on “flipping” these homes, and by disclosing that to a “not so open minded agent”, I may get my offers refused because the agent lets that be known.
Imagine, you are the seller and you hear, "This buyer has the best offer for us yet, but he also has a buyer who will pay him MORE for it. I think we can hold out and get that higher price."
That sort of kills my deal doesn’t it?
I do have some agents working with me who I am comfortable with, and know what I am up to. They have agreed to proceed on my behalf, and even help me when the seller makes noises about “Show me the money”.
Yesterday, we had an offer come back with the response of, “Show us proof of funds”.
My agent just called to let me know, and she also told me that she knew I’d say, “No”, and she intended to tell the seller that, and further explain that she’d worked with me before, and I was able to close on previuos deals, hence the short close date in our offer.
Well, today, the seller has informed us that is acceptable and they are passing the offer “up the chain” in the bank to get it approved.
(fingers crossed)

I understand the agents perspective, and you are right in most cases, but for me, “proof of funds” is irrelevant. I have a buyers list, and I know they are able to close, that is why they are on my list.
(I even contemplated getting one of them to write a letter, but then they may realize they can get the homes for less, by going around me)
If an agent or seller requires “Proof of funding” and will not budge, we simply move on to the next deal.

It is no big deal, but I do wish there was a way around it, so we could successfully close those deals, instead of walking away from potential profits.

And obviously, after doing a few more, we will have bank statements to show our ability and cash on hand.
But, for now, we must proceed as we have.

It is amazing though, after you convice an agent to work with you, the BEST way to convince them you are a serious buyer, is to close a deal with them. They sure seem a lot more cooperative after that.

Thanks for your input, and best of luck in your investing,
Jim IL

and the seller? - Posted by David S

Posted by David S on April 08, 1999 at 09:32:29:

Perhaps all potential buyers should have the seller provide a current title opinion BEFORE making an offer. I would think this same agent concerned about the buyers ability to perform would be equally concerned to protect all interested parties and make sure the seller is providing full disclosure concerning title issues, liens, judgements, etc.

If an agent would not make my offer known to the seller because I refuse to disclose my financial status to the agent, I would simply find another willing agent or go directly to the seller, period.

Let’s face it, how many agents are “qualified” to make the decision to determine my financial capabilities as well as my willingness to work with that agent?

Food for thought.

David S

fun with the dumb - Posted by Larson

Posted by Larson on April 08, 1999 at 13:15:29:

When I have a potential buyer I try to prequalify them in a manner of speaking. When they call and dont have any deposit or downpayment and want to make the first months payment in a couple of weeks, I don’t want to take time to mess with them. I don’t see where making lowball offers that are sure to be refused would be much fun. Looks like a waste of your time and the realtors time. No matter how pathetic or irritating the realtor may be, he’s just trying to make a living like all of us. I would just move on.

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by Jim

Posted by Jim on April 07, 1999 at 22:19:10:

All you need to do is make it contigent on something else instead of financing:

Approval of Partner/Company/etc

Also, you should use Ron LeGrand’s Realtor contact in Orlando

Jim

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by ScottE

Posted by ScottE on April 07, 1999 at 21:18:29:

Leslie,
What exactly do you mean by “multiple offer strategies”?

Thanks

Re: Realtors, why are they so dumb?!?!?! - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on April 07, 1999 at 18:55:28:

Thanks for responding,
Yes, we are trying the “multiple offer” strategy.
In some cases.
We primarily use RE agents to find Institutionally owned homes, (REO’s).
The Lenders in my area seem to be really hush hush about what they have.
But, with a careful search of the MLS for certain keywords we are able to find quite a few.
The problem is that many of the agnets do not understnad the “numbers game” we are playing. Making MANY offers to see which ones hit and which do not.

I have had one other problem lately, and not with just one agent.
Here is an example:
We found a home that is in foreclosure, and the home owner has gotten permission from the lender to short sell the home for less than what is owed. The Lender has just made it a requirement that they “approve” any offers.
The home is Valued at $89k and has a balance owed of $86k.
We offered $50k and the Homw owner accpeted, pending bank approval.
So, as we wait for approval, I get anxious and call the agent to check status.
The agent tells me that the bank has yet to approve the offer, and in the mena time another offer has come in.
So, now the bank will look at both offers and see which to accept.
This sounded kind of “unproffesional” to me, and I said as much.
The agent told me that even though the homeowner accepted, the bank has final approval, so our offer really means nothing.
I knew this kind of, but I presumed that IF my offer was unacceptable to the lender, they would at least counter, BEFORE taking other offers.

Am I WAY off base here?

This is sometimes frustrating.

It happened once before to us, as we were preparing our answer to a counter offer, another offer came in slightly higher than our original and was accpeted.
The sad part is that our NEW offer was going to be a little higher than the one they accepted!
OUCH!!

Oh, well, one word applies:
NEXT!!

Jim IL

If it is not state wide - it must be regional to my area. - Posted by Andrew Smith (Phila)

Posted by Andrew Smith (Phila) on April 09, 1999 at 12:27:36:

Every Realtor does it here around Philadelphia. Frankly, as I understand the logic behind it - I don’t have a problem with it. Of course though, it doesn’t represent an obstacle to me. This is not requiring any sort of proof of funds at the time of writing up the agreement - just a brief sketch of a person’s financial picture so that an agent can determine that they are not wasting time. Proof of funds are not required here at all. It may not be law but a buyers financial form is always completed around here. To me it makes a lot of sense.

It’s the law in Idaho - Posted by Valerie Robertson

Posted by Valerie Robertson on April 08, 1999 at 15:16:14:

In Idaho it is state law that a realtor make some effort to prove to a seller that a buyer has the funding to close. This is usually covered by a bank/mortgage broker’s prequalification. My husband went through realtor training in 1996.

However, I used to work in the mortgage industry in Idaho, and originators never ask for proof of income or debt at a prequalification. Also, I’ve never had a realtor ask for a verification of funds prior to submitting an offer. Go figure.