Rich Dad - question about one of his examples - Posted by Greg

Re: Rich Dad - some of the best books I have read - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on February 05, 2002 at 14:48:13:

I’m glad the Kiyosaki books opened your eyes. We all had to deal with the erroneous views we were taught. Your experience in Home Ec class is typical.

Please don’t take Kiyosaki’s books as the last word. As time goes on and your knowlege grows you will look back on them as you do your Grade 1 and 2 schoolbooks now.

If you reread them in a few years time you will laugh at some of his funny ideas. I want to warn you about this so you don’t get hung up on his stuff and let it hold you back.

Re: Rich Dad - question about one of his examples - Posted by Matt

Posted by Matt on February 04, 2002 at 23:52:46:

I found the Rich Dad series to be great. It helped inspire me and change my life. Before I read the books, I planned on working 60 hours a week for someone else to work on financial freedom. Reading “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” and using the Rich Dad discussion forum pointed me toward this site. I haven’t completed my first deal yet but the series have changed my life. I have started to work on my financial freedom while I am still in college. The books might not always be very specific on details but Kiyosaki offers examples to back up his points. I thought he had a very powerful message and it has certainly made a difference to me. Have a good night.

Again whatever… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on February 04, 2002 at 17:14:38:

buying a property at a tax sale for 20k worth 100k doesnt seem so inconcievable… I guess call me gullible… NOT!

Ask Ben that posts on this board… he does tax sales… Associates was losing properties left and right to tax sales… because they didnt escrow…

Regardless, His book isnt about the technical and nver was meant to be… his books are all about fundamental values… he leaves the How and why up to you…

Sorry… although there are pitfalls in Investing… I guess I’m a sucker and you are too… for that matter , because here we are taking the risk… then again…

I hear good solid thoughts from you like the thread above and then you get into something like this where I wonder if you’ve ever bought a property…

And what would it matter if all his stories were completely made up… It doesnt… again it’s the fundamentals of buying/creating assets you should be gleaming from the first book…

David Alexander

What’s the point? - Posted by JM

Posted by JM on February 05, 2002 at 15:38:33:

You’re too busy arguing your house is an asset and trying to disprove RK, sub2, L/O, etc.

This site is called Creative (not Conventional) Real Estate Online. If you’re not here to learn, why stay?

JM

Gotta jump in here… - Posted by MatthewC

Posted by MatthewC on February 05, 2002 at 11:52:01:

GL,

I have read many of your posts and I get the impression you are on this path to get all “the right answers” in life. I see how you pound away at “subject to” purchasing and all the minutia. Some experienced people try to explain it to you and you started pounding away at it again. It was said repeatedly that if you are not comfortable don’t do it. Yet, it seems like you are determined to jam your perspective down people’s throat. In the above example, I don’t call it “subject to” financing. It is just another way of implementing owner-financing. Is that so difficult to understand? You don’t have to like the implementation.

Now, with this whole Rich Dad/RK discussion, you are making these sweeping statements based on 1 book that had an original printing of only 1,000 copies, a book that was NEVER meant to be much more than helpng promote the Cashflow 101 game. It was meant to be simple and convey a different message and outlook on things.

First, you were making sweeping generalizations about Robert, the book, and his knowledge. The interesting thing is RK has publicly admitted to not being the most detail-oriented guy. But don’t mistake the lack of detail to him being stupid or not knowing the broad strokes. But that is old news and not the reason I jumped in here.

What I found a bit irritating in your statements were that his Team are a “bunch of bozos”. If you choose to look beyond RDPD, you will find that many of his past and present mentors/advisors are pretty powerful people in their own right. How do I know? I have personally had conversations with many of them.

So many people think that if you buy all the books, they understand what RK is trying to say. And although I do greatly enjoy the RD books, they are watered down for public consumption.

Names like CPA Diane Kennedy, Attorney Michael Lechter, Garrett Sutton, Blair Singer, Keith Cunningham, John Burley, and Dolf deRoos have been or are still involved with Robert.

I would be happy to consult with RK’s “team of bozos” any day. Your credibility in the matter is lower than before because it shows how little you investigated beyond RDPD.

GL, no one is going to come up and sign, seal, & deliver the 100% goods. If you don’t believe it, fine, you can limit your life to what you know and see. But the world is a large place with 6 billion people. The person in Afghanistan probably has little concept of what “safety” and a “good nights sleep” here in the U.S. But does that make it any less real? No, because their reality is limited to what they can see from Afghanistan.

And you seem to have a problem with someone selling “cheesy books”. Well, one of the best-selling business books today is called “Who moved my cheese?” I don’t think you would like the short book. The story is about few rats in a maze and how they react to the cheese when it is moved. I am not joking either.

I do not think this post will change your mind whatsoever but at least it will serve as a counterpoint to all the statements you are making in a public forum.

I won’t elaborate but my knowledge of RK’s background and the whole RichDad brand goes beyond simply being a groupie fan.

Re: Again whatever… - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on February 04, 2002 at 17:46:03:

Regardless, His book isnt about the technical and nver was meant to be…
his books are all about fundamental values… he leaves the How and why
up to you…

That is what I am trying to get across. Read his stuff for inspiration but don’t take it literally.

I’m not even sure about the inspiration. I had to revise my thinking a great deal to get into investing. Almost all of what I learned in school, from family and friends etc. was wrong or missed the point. Kiyosaki’s stuff is that way. He tells people to change their thinking then repeats the same old myths. Have you ever actually read any of his books? I have. A few weeks ago I got into the exact same debate. I gave my opinion and all the true believers hit me with the same guff I am getting now.Said I didn’t know what I was talking about, never read any of his books etc. When I gave them exact analysis of his mistakes, they said that didn’t count because you weren’t supposed to take him literally anyway. Well that is what I have said, over and over. Read his stuff for entertainment and inspiration if you like but don’t take him literally because he is full of it.

Go back and read the original post. Greg tried to analyse Kiyosaki’s so called experience and learn from it. But when he did, he found it didn’t add up. There was something missing. You bet there was. It never happened.

If Greg wants to learn how to make money on tax sales forget about Kiyosaki. He should listen to someone who actually does it, like your friend Ben.

Exactly… - Posted by MatthewC

Posted by MatthewC on February 05, 2002 at 17:14:32:

Time is better spent trying to understand distinctions and better uses, instead of trying to find reasons why things cannot and should not work.

If someone is not willing to be “creative”, visiting this site is a waste of time. I say to those people to Go visit COREO - Conventional Only Real Estate Online.

May I step in ??? - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on February 06, 2002 at 24:03:53:

I think what many people expect is a road map to a treasure chest. And even so…that treasure better be there or it might be considered a scam.

Kiyosaki attempts to teach new ways of thinking.
Unfortunately this can prove quite fatal since the public is not used to thinking outside the box.

ONe of the most common excuses used to criticize successful people is that they must make all their money selling books, websites, and their valuable time. Of course, for those that know better, we also know the power of leveraging our time and passive income VS. labor income.

What is rarely asked is how did these people
come to write these books? What experience did they
bring prior to writing?

It’s just impossible to package everything Kiyosaki knows into four or five books. The secret of success is to have some “creativity” and yes that means “imagination”, which up to this point is not in abundance.

The simple fact is, you can write a step-by-step book to success, and most pe

Re: Gotta jump in here… - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on February 05, 2002 at 14:40:15:

What is wrong with wanting the right answers? Who wants wrong answers?

Speaking of answers you should have noticed that almost all of mine are to people who are attacking me. I have said over and over again that I have no quarrel with Kiyosaki; his books are good for entertainment and encouragement, but don’t take them too literally.

Then people like you come back, say basically the same thing, and accuse me of all kinds of things. Who is jamming who here?

Buy all the cheesy books you want. I do. I buy cheesy books and enjoy them all the time. But I don’t look at their authors with awe and use them as mentors. A lot of people seem to be high on Kiyosaki’s stuff and they shouldn’t be.

I don’t know why I should care what happens to a lot of innocents. I think now I over reacted. Nobody is going to be hurt by Kiyosaki’s books because his fans are not going to run out and start imitating him anyway. If they do they will learn better soon enough.

Making money… - Posted by MatthewC

Posted by MatthewC on February 05, 2002 at 17:33:46:

RK may not be qualifed to be a mortgage broker, real estate agent, insurance agent, or tax sales expert, but his most definitely qualified in teaching people how to make money. Why? He has done it a few times if you know about his history.

People will then say, oh he made his money through his RD Books like it is some evil act or that it doesnt require intelligence. If that is the case, I challenge anyone to write a book of any kind and sell “only” a half-million of them.

I like real estate and it is part of my business and investments but RE is not the end all, be all in today’s age and the next 2 decades.

All I have got to say is if you are so busy telling people what can’t be done or what shouldn’t be done, what are YOU contributing to the world in a large way and large scale? Please don’t say your posts are because it was J.P. Vaughan’s vision that built this site that gives you the opportunity to spread your inaccurate rhetoric.

Kiyosaki’s value… - Posted by HR

Posted by HR on February 04, 2002 at 20:31:51:

GL,

Your points are toward the details of Kiyosaki’s work. He ain’t strong on detail. Some of his examples are a bit fuzzy. I woulden’t condemn him, though, to just entertainment or inspirational value.

Far from repeating the same old myths, his big picture thoughts are 100% accurate: one MUST have their own profitable biz to get ahead, corps DO provide tax shelter and benefits, one MUST become financially literate and buy assets and avoid consumer debt, etc. These are important and great ideas, which, by the way, few have popularized in as popular a way as Kiyosaki.

Kiyosaki the scholar? I don’t think so. Kiyosaki the popular teacher? Yea, and worth reading, too.

HR

Re: Again whatever… - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on February 04, 2002 at 19:44:50:

The example in Greg’s post adds up perfectly. What doesn’t add up is in Greg’s thinking because he just doesn’t understand something with how RK was able to sell by financing someone else to buy a property that already had a $20k note secured against it.

Well, first of all, did he borrow the $20k where it was secured against that property or some other property or maybe it was from a line of credit. Who knows, but either way it doesn’t matter.

If he has a $20k loan on a property then how can he sell it with 100% financing? That was the question being asked by Greg. Where are the holes in this? There are none! Investors sell this way all the time, everyday! It’s called selling on a wrap! You have an underlying loan on the property and you sell on a wrap by getting a higher price, higher interest, collect payments from the buyer, pay the payment on the underlying loan and pocket the spread! What’s so hard to understand about that? Exactly what holes did you see in RK’s deal based on the questions Greg was asking in his post?

Seems to me… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on February 04, 2002 at 19:09:58:

You just want a cookbook… instead of learning how to create your own recipes…

If all you got were inspiration and entertainment… then you missed the point of the fundamental education… Unless you of course already know it all… Again sounds like Jack Reed… If the technical isnt perfect then the rest must be bunk… If that’s the case… Hope you never lose what you have… as you’ll be hard pressed to recoup…

I still say it could have happened and probably did…
What difference does it make… the book still teaches it’s point…

I mean as I type posts I often misspell words… most of the time because I’m not a great typist (I’m actually great at spelling) My fingers dont do the walking, and most of the time I don’t proof it…

But, reality is… I just care to get the point across and most reasonably intelligent folk canfigure out the thought… instead of getting hung up on the details…

And that’s what I’m saying here… are you getting hung up on miniscule details that arent important in the overall scheme just so you can insist you are right…

Nuff Said

David Alexander

Re: Exactly… - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on February 06, 2002 at 08:10:47:

“Time is better spent trying to understand distinctions and better uses,
instead of trying to find reasons why things cannot and should not work.”

That is very good. That is what I am trying to do. But every time I try to point out that there is more to the real estate business than happy fantasies and quick buck tricks I get shot down.

I still don’t know what the fuss is about. If I’m just a big wet blanket with nothing good to say why do you bother reading my stuff? Why don’t you go out and do some sub2 deals, if they are so safe and easy? Why don’t you try making money in the way Kiyosaki describes and see what happens?

LOL (nt) - Posted by JM

Posted by JM on February 05, 2002 at 20:05:16:

nt

More than one right answers… - Posted by MatthewC

Posted by MatthewC on February 05, 2002 at 17:09:26:

What I am trying to say is there are MANY right answers if you are open to it. By trying to making things into ONE right answer, you close off the other options.

His books are more than “entertainment or encouragement”. But if that is all you see, that becomes the limiting factor.

I don’t know what you mean in “awe”. If you mean admiring and respecting somone’s accomplishments, then so be it. Who are you to be telling people what people “should” or “shouldn’t” be high on?

And this has nothing to do with “imitation”. I think David got it right when he says you be looking for “cookbooks”. Anyone could have told you that the Rich Dad books are not “cookbooks”. It has to do with the education and learning of different tools, options, and possibilities.

And believe it or not, those subtle differences can translate into nice financial rewards. There are the generalists and there are the specialists. And the last time I looked, the wealthiest people in the world removed themselves from being specialists “know it alls” to someone who just listens and learns from others to later formulate/create new ideas.

You don’t have to like it. But if you are going to be making BOLD statements that are based on YOUR educated guesses and not on facts, be prepared for someone to deliver a counterpoint.

Re: Again whatever… - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on February 04, 2002 at 23:53:49:

I suggest that Greg should not get hung up trying to figure out the details in Mr. Kiyosaki’s deal because the details are not in the book. YOu can probably think of a dozen ways to do such a deal but who knows how Mr. Kiyosaki did it?The only way to find out for sure would be to call up Mr. Kiyosaki and ask him.

Why bother? Why not ask a real expert if you want to find out how to do tax sale deals? There are several good books on the subject by acknowleged experts.

Mr. Kiyosaki’s book does not pretend to be such a book so why worry about the details?

Re: Seems to me… - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on February 04, 2002 at 23:48:07:

If you read any of Kiyosaki’s books, and I mean really read, not skim through, you will see a lot of things that are misleading.

You are right, I do want a cookbook. What is wrong with that? Why should I reinvent the wheel? On this board we have discussed many investing methods that must be done exactly right or you can get in trouble. I hate to mention it but last week we had a big fuss over sub2’s and it turned out the guy who had the problem had broken 2 of the cardinal rules as laid out by the expert, which is why he got in trouble.

He already had a “cookbook” but he got in trouble because he failed to follow the “recipe” exactly.

I wouldn’t do a deal without consulting a lawyer, not if it was a real estate deal of significant value.

I’m not the one getting hung up on miniscule details. I already said if you ignore the details his stuff is fine.

Correct me if I am wrong… - Posted by MatthewC

Posted by MatthewC on February 06, 2002 at 11:40:28:

… but what ideas have you come up with beyond going to the bank and getting a mortgage and doing it the standard way that is the “safest way”? I don’t read every post so I might have missed some of your more creative ideas. I only spotted those where you were OPPOSED to something…

>>But every time I try to point out that there is more to the real estate business than happy fantasies and quick buck tricks I get shot down.<<

That is my point. Your very words shows your beliefs. You look at it as “happy fantasies” and “quick buck tricks”. You wonder what the fuss is all about? It is similar to what “dream killers” do. They offer lots of criticisms and naysaying but don’t necessarily offer any solutions or alternatives.

ON deals, Yes, I have done and still do sub2 deals. In fact, closed on one a week ago. Plan to have it cashed out in 2-3 years. And yes, I do know most of the risks. (There are probably a couple more I haven’t thought of that you might come up with.) Bottom line is I am prepared to deal with the various POSSIBLE consequences IF they manifest themselves.

And regarding the “difficulty” factor, there are roughly over half dozen pre-prepared documents that need to be signed and maybe 3 of them notarized. What is the difficulty there?

And regarding making money the way Kiyosaki describes, I don’t limit myself to the examples in the books which is all they are. Passive/residual income is what he espouses through buying and/or creating assets. I haven’t read RDPD in a long while but the seeds started there. I have adopted what he espouses but they are not appropriate to this forum (non-real estate projects / ventures). And yes, they do cashflow.

I dont realistically expect to agree with me, but as I said earlier, other readers can decide the points and counterpoints themselves.

Re: Not Exactly… - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on February 06, 2002 at 09:41:53:

Some of us do make money like Kiyosaki. WE buy real estate, mortages, we develop web businesses, and we do other things like trading stocks for passive income.

The point you are missing is that, YES, we do see where you’re coming from. Im glad I got passed that stage. And no RK is not my hero. But he’s a great educator and role model.

You pick one or two things that you “think” can go wrong, and then generalize the rest. You wouldn’t stop driving a car solely on the basis that one or two things went wrong, right?

So why would you call someone a “phoney” when you haven’t figured out the components of the lesson taught.

Several years back, in my early 20’s, I had gone through a financial holocaust, lost about quarter million, lost the love of my life, and lost my business. Time has changed and I have since grown up…if u know what I mean.

I don’t worship Mr. Kiyosaki anymore than I look upto to the stars on television. What I did learn was the power of “passive” income…ie…investing your money to make more money, Using OPM, and other people’s time.

It doesn’t have to be in RE. It can be in many other kinds of businesses. Heck, go clean windows and hire a bunch of people to do it for you.

To discredit Kiyosaki’s teaching is like wearing a dark pair of Wallgreens’s sunglasses while driving at nite.

Austin