Robert Allens $6000 Mentoring Course - Posted by Nick

Posted by Linda Simms on August 25, 2003 at 15:15:48:

You make a very good point and I can see how you could loosely term that as a system, but not $6,000 or formal one that is sold by so called Gurus and book writers. Still it is a good point.

Robert Allens $6000 Mentoring Course - Posted by Nick

Posted by Nick on August 22, 2003 at 01:12:56:

Wanted to know if anyone either knows someone or has used Robert Allens mentoring course and what they thought. He is offering 1hr1/2 wk teleconference 4 8wk RE programs, 2 8wk internet programs, 8wk stock market program, and I believe there is an inforprenuer program also. Any Feedback will be appreciated.
Thanks!

I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 22, 2003 at 02:48:02:

training is worth $6000. I like Robert and enjoy every one of his $19.95 books. But $6000 is too much for any training.

IMHO, I think you’ll have as much success searching this site with a good attorney by your side as spending $6000.

I would rather invest $200 on 30 different courses than a one time fee on one course for $6000.

I can almost gurantee you that after paying $6000 you’ll be back here screaming why Robert ripped you off.

Spend a $200 on a few different courses and then hit the streets or go work for free for a seasoned investor. Don’t even try to make money the first few weeks.

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by joe

Posted by joe on August 26, 2003 at 13:58:21:

Austin,

I read this great series of “debates” (for lack of a better term) late, but hopefully, you can still catch my post. What I wanted to say is that everyone of us, regardless of what professions we are in, has always, and is still using systems, one way or another, good or bad, conscientiously or subconscientiously. So, the point is not having a system or not, but rather what kind of system. One thing is for sure: in order to be a superstar in any profession or business, you have to creat your own system, often on the basis of other systems. Even you, Austin, from your past posts, you have invested in many systems and finally created your own. So did Joe Kaiser – his early failure was not in vain, rather it was the foundation of his latter success. Is there any guru who is successful and selling a system simply copied somebody else’s system?

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by Joe Kaiser

Posted by Joe Kaiser on August 23, 2003 at 23:54:32:

I started out in 1983 and spent $7k on courses in a 3 year period.
Back then, that was a ton of money (as my wife reminds me to this
day).

By 1986, I was totally messed up, and knew a million and one
"seminar ideas" that were good, bad or just plain goofy. Problem
was, I cound’t begin to know which ones were which because after
3 years, I was essentially brand new.

I took one guru’s advice and spent 4 hours with the district’s US
Trustee explaining to him why I’d helped people file bankruptcy to
stop foreclosure. He took pity on me and finally said “stop doing
this and we’ll let you live.”

Another attorney charged me with practicing law without a
license, based on another guru’s gameplan. Practicing law without
a license in my state is a felony. I suspect it’s a felony in your
state, too.

I met with my local Attorney General, after being investigated for
3 years because of a particular foreclosure technique I picked up
in one of those courses. The technique turned out to be
completely bogus, but seemed like a good idea at the time.

I was nearly arrested when I decided that “parting out” empty
houses was a good idea. I can take credit for that one myself . . .
seemed “brilliant” at the time.

I tried adverse possession, but the sheriff told me he’d arrest me
for trespassing if I tried doing that ever again. The real owner got
wind that someone had turned the power on in his house and sent
the cops out to get me.

Here’s my point . . .

It is not about the books and tapes. Had I simply found one guy
with some real experience who could have shown me the ropes,
who could have told me when I’d got off track, who could have
stopped me when he saw me trying something he’d know from
years and years experience was competely bogus, I’d have been a
hundred times better off.

When I went broke in 1988, I’d already purchased dozens and
dozens of courses. When they evicted me and my little family
from the home we’d lost in foreclosure, it really didn’t matter that
I’d become an expert about what didn’t work in this business.

Find someone who’s a successful investor today and do whatever
it takes to get on his team. If he’s willing to show you what really
works, the $6k will look like peanuts.

Bear in mind, I work with people myself and charge considerably
more than $6 so my opinion is more than a little bit skewed . . .
but just the same, I’ve been through that 30 course ringer and
wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

This is not the sort of business you can just pick up on your own
and go with. At least I never could.

Joe

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by Willie

Posted by Willie on August 22, 2003 at 07:03:09:

I agree, few if any courses or coaching could be worth $6,000.00. I also don’t see why you need an attorney by your side, he could cost you that much too.

Every Guru is a student of some other gurus - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 26, 2003 at 17:30:48:

Your correct in that my system is a product of many systems. The original poster asked whether to invest $6000 in Robert Allen’s course to which I am a bit conservative in personal recommendation.

I would rather see a newbie invest in several courses and come up with his own conclusion. At $6000 each, how many systems can you afford?

It is highly unlikely that one $6000 system can change a person’s life or cover all basis.

Cheerz,

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by RJ-Indy

Posted by RJ-Indy on August 29, 2003 at 10:43:29:

Joe,

I agree. I don’t have 20 years to figure it out nor the money to loose. Very depressing post. So far I get a pat on the head and “just go do it” and “we would soon go broke if we help everybody…” So next week I camp on your front lawn. Do I bring biscuits for the dog or do you have a better idea.

Joe, - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 24, 2003 at 01:34:32:

Somebody with your perseverance, skills, and work ethics can look back and say $6000 wasn’t much. You would have paid many times more. But most people are not like you.

Somebody else might look back and say the same $6000 could have been used to learn stock trading or invested elsewhere.

I would agree on the mentorship recommendation but $6000 is way too much for beginners.

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by houserookie

Posted by houserookie on August 22, 2003 at 08:47:42:

An attorney by your side doesn’t have to cost much
money. A quality atty can help to review legal contracts. I have not witnessed any course to offer legal contracts that work all the time, in all
jurisdictions.

Of recent, my average atty expense is about $150.

There are people that think they need $6000 training to reap in the benefits of becoming an investor.
If this is a prerequisite to program their mindset then great. Anything to get you hitting the streets is worth the investment. Most self starers however can motivate themselves to become successful without high initial expenses.

If a person can’t motivate himself to become successful, hit the streets, verify details, and ask for help, I can’t see how a $6000 training can offer much help.

I am a student of Robert Allen, Robert Kiyosaki, Napoleon Hill, and other $19.95 - $250 courses. You will never catch me spending more than $250 on a single course. I just dont think it’s ever worth it, FOR ME. As stated prior, you can piece information from multiple courses to come up with a hybrid of your own success manual.

I get emails from CREonline members everyday asking for details on specific books, courses, authors, methods, strategies, and programs. My response has not changed in that there isn’t a single tool that I have that is responsible for my success in this business.

The best tool I have is the drive to hit the streets and learn from my mistakes. I don’t subscribe to conventional thinking from the gurus, the critics of the gurus or the motivational tapes, courses, or seminars. Gurus themselves hold on to their own conventional thinking. A true entrepreneur realizes that the truth from yesterday could be false and obsolete by today.

I am edged by the notion that gurus somehow have this
innate ability to understand success, through years of experience. You see this everyday both on this board and through networking. Needless to say, I see
self made experts with 20-30 years experience in the business world that STILL don’t understand how to leverage themselves for success.

The best resource that one can have in this business or any other is a drive and this business may or may not be right for that person.

“This person, that course, the seminars, the methods , and the strategies don’t work,” I’ve heard it all.

There is one that I have not heard. That is am I the one that scammed myself by doing something that is not right for me.

I would throw away $200 six times over to learn one tip from six courses to determine whether the material is right for me than to sit and wonder for six months IF it’s right. It’s a lot cheaper than spending an entire year debating whether to invest $200 and it’s certainly less expensive than $6000 bootcamps.

cheerz,

Re: Joe, - Posted by Wayne-NC

Posted by Wayne-NC on August 24, 2003 at 09:18:38:

I agree with you 100% however, couldn’t some sort of a system be set up where it would be a graduated payment plan based on the different levels of acheivement as one progresses? This way a person could stop at his or her comfort level (maybe a $1K investment) or possibly move on at their own pace (or risk) to a higher level. I would have been interested in such a plan years ago if I knew about it. Anyway you slice it, it is definitely cheaper that paying for college tuition these days!

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on August 22, 2003 at 11:20:32:

Austin: you are really on to something here. One of the things I’ve noticed in some of the “alternative” life paths I’ve taken, the ones that were anti-establishment (and where you supposedly forged your own path) is how quickly they become institutionalized and resemble very closely many of the qualities I was trying to avoid.

I think perhaps CREI is no different. So eager and anxious to get off the beaten path, many jump in only to follow someone else’s beaten path. Truly free-thinkers are far and few between. The best lesson any guru could teach would be how to think for yourself…in any arena, at any time. Kind of a conflict of interest when you have a product to sell–often a product that is a “system.” You know, as in write this ad, do this mailing and say these exact words and presto. Maybe that works somewhere, but that doesn’t work where I am!:slight_smile: What does work is my own brand of creativity and faith and relationship building. Not as well as I would like to work, but at least it’s me.

In my opinion being willing to learn from mistakes is key–took me 40 years to become someone who doesn’t care if I don’t know it today–that somehow I can learn it and know it tomorrow (or next year). It’s changed everything. I hope it doesn’t take that long for my kids.

Thanks for the provoking ideas. Sincerely, Kristine

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on August 22, 2003 at 11:15:04:

Austin: you are really on to something here. One of the things I’ve noticed in some of the “alternative” life paths I’ve taken, the ones that were anti-establishment (and where you supposedly forged your own path) is how quickly they become institutionalized and resemble very closely many of the qualities I was trying to avoid.

I think perhaps CREI is no different. So eager and anxious to get off the beaten path, many jump in only to follow someone else’s beaten path. Truly free-thinkers are far and few between. The best lesson any guru could teach would be how to think for yourself…in any arena, at any time. Kind of a conflict of interest when you have a product to sell–often a product that is a “system.” You know, as in write this ad, do this mailing and say these exact words and presto. Maybe that works somewhere, but that doesn’t work where I am!:slight_smile: What does work is my own brand of creativity and faith and relationship building. Not as well as I would like to work, but at least it’s me.

In my opinion being willing to learn from mistakes is key–took me 40 years to become someone who doesn’t care if I don’t know it today–that somehow I can learn it and know it tomorrow (or next year). It’s changed everything. I hope it doesn’t take that long for my kids.

Thanks for the provoking ideas. Sincerely, Kristine

Re: Joe, - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 25, 2003 at 24:26:49:

Yes, there is a way. The solution is to invest in several moderately priced systems and modify to one’s like and objectives. Four $250 systems are not as risky as one $6000 system.

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 22, 2003 at 11:37:05:

Kristine,

Life is in fact like comedy. The same script, joke, and punch line word for word can come across differently by different people and results are different as well. The same joke coming out of Jay Leno and Chris Rock will have a different effect on people. I’m not cut out for comedy. And that’s no joke.

This should tell the keen entrepreneur that scripts and systems don’t work in business.

Cheerz,

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by Wayne-NC

Posted by Wayne-NC on August 23, 2003 at 21:59:50:

Let’s hope your kids learn from your mistakes then forge their on path. In other words pick up where you left off. That is better that just forging your own path don’t you think? Real estate investing can be the same after you leave the gurus’ path.

Question for HouseRookie … - Posted by Robert Campbell

Posted by Robert Campbell on August 22, 2003 at 15:17:32:

Austin,

You say: “This should tell the keen entrepreneur that scripts and systems don’t work in business.”

I say: "Banks use a credit scoring system to measure credit risk. This scoring system has proven to be highly correlated with the likelihood that a borrow will pay back a loan.

Insurance companies use use a system based on acturial and health data to determine risk in setting premiums for coverage.

Weather forecasters use changes in barometic pressure (a system indeed) to accurately determine what the weather will be in the next 1 to 3 days."

I could go on with more examples, but I say that an objective systems approach to most if not all things in life will generate greater long-term success than those who chose to operate without using a system.

I will be interested in your comments.

Thank you.

Robert Campbell

Re: I personally don’t think any course or - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 24, 2003 at 01:27:53:

After having read a few of your posts on this topic, I have a clearer understanding of your comparison of “systems” to statistic.

I AGREE 100%.

Please read my “take” this - Posted by Wayne-NC

Posted by Wayne-NC on August 23, 2003 at 21:27:52:

Please go below and read my subject on “Systems?” I will be interested in your comments.

Re: Question for HouseRookie … - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on August 22, 2003 at 17:04:49:

Robert,

There is also a system that predicts most Americans to be dead broke at retirment. Another system says that 7 out of 10 biz owners will fail during the first few years. Personally, such systems can limit the human potential and compound the human fear factors.

The systems that you speak of assume that past behaviors will repeat. It also groups human beings into social norms/groups similar to a commodity.

I’m sorry but we are not beef, corn, pork, or
cattle. People have multi-levels of skills, talents, and ambitions.

Human potentials can’t be measured that way because people change but systems don’t.

Likewise, credit systems don’t change but people do.
Such systems analyze the past for commercial profit. You can have perfect credit today and still can’t open up a bank account due to past history. You can have perfect credit today with old ones remain for 4-10 years. Financial systems penalize people for their past. IT IS ALWAYS BASED ON THE PAST.

A human being on the other hand has the ability and potential to do good today for a better tomorrow. What you do today can pay off tomorrow,
whereas systems you speak of penalize you into the future.

The systems you speak of was designed to profit from past human errors. The system that each of us can come up with has the potential to reward based on internally driven scoring.

I prefer a scoring system where each person gives himself in contrast to one given by someone else…ex…credit score.

Systems are built with an objective. Your real estate system may be different from mine because you and I have different potentials and certainly different objectives.

Austin